My body keeps changing my mind

[Mark-T]

Regarding Still Crazy, listen to the last note of "away" on the both versions the first time its sung. From there on out, there are subtle but noticeable differences in the two songs. Since this was the first song I heard from the solo project (which was unreleased when I got it), I listened to it over and over. I can usually tell the difference of which one is being played on my I-tunes list when it comes on.

 

[David A]

The more I keep reading comments regarding this song and others on her solo album, the thought came to me; what if Richard had produced Karen's solo album? Her vision? His production?

This is an interesting idea and if - IF - Richard had been able to let Karen make all of the choices regarding songs, key, etc., maybe it could have been sold as a Karen solo album.

In my view, based upon what we know, Richard would not have been able to do that. He had his strong, singular vision about how best to wrap Karen's voice, production values, song key, etc., which is part of the reason he detests her solo album. I don't believe he'd have even wanted to be a part of that type of arrangement.

 

[Geographer]

This is an interesting idea and if - IF - Richard had been able to let Karen make all of the choices regarding songs, key, etc., maybe it could have been sold as a Karen solo album.

In my view, based upon what we know, Richard would not have been able to do that. He had his strong, singular vision about how best to wrap Karen's voice, production values, song key, etc., which is part of the reason he detests her solo album. I don't believe he'd have even wanted to be a part of that type of arrangement.

True. But he was able to "fix" and improve on what was already done. Just interesting to consider that, after all those Karen choices were completed, if she were to bring Richard in at the end to just "consult" and help mix the final result, I wonder what would we get. Perhaps if Karen brought him in as a professional consultant and not as brother/partner, would he have been more apt to support? Would some of his criticisms (most of them rightly so, in my opinion) be lessoned and maybe even moving his opinion to neutral?

I mean, she'd still be "the boss." He'd be working for her. Just a thought.

 

[Jarred]

True. But he was able to "fix" and improve on what was already done. Just interesting to consider that, after all those Karen choices were completed, if she were to bring Richard in at the end to just "consult" and help mix the final result, I wonder what would we get. Perhaps if Karen brought him in as a professional consultant and not as brother/partner, would he have been more apt to support? Would some of his criticisms (most of them rightly so, in my opinion) be lessoned and maybe even moving his opinion to neutral?

I mean, she'd still be "the boss." He'd be working for her. Just a thought.

It would be hard for him to take a different position when working with her though. It wouldn’t be like turning off a switch, where he could just do what she says. All he knew was being the auteur of their sound and I can’t imagine that instinct being restrained here.

 

[Rumbahbah]

True. But he was able to "fix" and improve on what was already done. Just interesting to consider that, after all those Karen choices were completed, if she were to bring Richard in at the end to just "consult" and help mix the final result, I wonder what would we get. Perhaps if Karen brought him in as a professional consultant and not as brother/partner, would he have been more apt to support? Would some of his criticisms (most of them rightly so, in my opinion) be lessoned and maybe even moving his opinion to neutral?

I mean, she'd still be "the boss." He'd be working for her. Just a thought.

Richard has stated several times that he saw them as a duo and that they were 'born to work together'. It seems to me pretty clear that he meant by that working as the Carpenters, not as a producer/consultant to Karen the solo artist. The power balance in the working relationship between the siblings had been pretty much set in stone by 1979. I don't see any possibility for that to have been changed going forward.

The changes Richard made to the solo tracks are by and large pretty minimal and were no doubt driven more by his desire to tweak tracks in later years like he did with Carpenters songs rather than to 'fix' a problematic mix. If that had been the case, he'd surely have made far more changes than he did.

 

[newvillefan]

The more I keep reading comments regarding this song and others on her solo album, the thought came to me; what if Richard had produced Karen's solo album? Her vision? His production?

Richard already produced a Karen Carpenter solo album. It’s called Christmas Portrait

 

[A&M Retro]

Just dug out the Lovelines liner notes on the remix issue. Interestingly, it says that 'If We Try' and 'Remember When Lovin'...' were remixed by Phil Ramone and Jim Boyer (as you say, they both sound identical to the versions on the solo album), while 'Lovelines' and 'If I Had You' were remixed by Robert de la Garza. Given that remix credits are normally never given for all the other remixes done on Carpenters songs, does that in fact mean that Richard didn't really have much involvement with these and farmed them out?

The two solo tracks on From the Top don't feature any remix credit, so presumably these were Richard's work. Again, the version of 'Still Crazy...' sounds identical to the original verison.

The remix of ‘Still Crazy After All These Years’ has MUCH more reverb and punch to it than the drier original. While I do like the remix, I still prefer the original solo because the intricate and rich backgrounds are much more prevalent. Plus, the stereo separation on the original has more impact.

Same thing as ‘My Body Keeps Changing My Mind’ ‘Lovelines’ and ‘If I Had You’ (to my ears, anyway).

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

The remix of ‘Still Crazy After All These Years’ has MUCH more reverb and punch to it than the drier original. While I do like the remix, I still prefer the original solo because the intricate and rich backgrounds are much more prevalent. Plus, the stereo separation on the original has more impact.

Same thing as ‘My Body Keeps Changing My Mind’ ‘Lovelines’ and ‘If I Had You’ (to my ears, anyway).

All of Richard's remixes (save the RPO album which are somewhat more involved than his typical remix/additional production gimmick) feature far too much reverb. He absolutely drowns Karen in it. I avoid most of them like the plague.

Ed

 

[motownboy]

The remix of ‘Still Crazy After All These Years’ has MUCH more reverb and punch to it than the drier original. While I do like the remix, I still prefer the original solo because the intricate and rich backgrounds are much more prevalent. Plus, the stereo separation on the original has more impact.

Same thing as ‘My Body Keeps Changing My Mind’ ‘Lovelines’ and ‘If I Had You’ (to my ears, anyway).

The original mix of "Lovelines" was not good. Karen's first vocals in the song are so low in the mix, you can barely hear them. Richard addressed that in his mix. Richard improved the song for me over the original.

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

The original mix of "Lovelines" was not good. Karen's first vocals in the song are so low in the mix, you can barely hear them. Richard addressed that in his mix. Richard improved the song for me over the original.

Forgot about that one. I'll give you part of that. To my ears, I don't like how he created a very conventional beginning whereas the original mix has the bass cut out. I thought that was a more interesting intro and Richard dispensed with that. He did bring Karen's voice further forward though and that was a good call.

Ed

 

[GaryAlan]

The entire issue regards "mixes" of the solo recordings confuses me....
Am I to believe that the playback of these solo songs were actually mixed
with Karen sounding bad ? That it took Richard's "genius," and only that, to bring Karen's vocals out front in the "mix" ?
I find it all too incredulous. Am I to believe Phil Ramone was that inept at producing a record ?
Makes no sense,
especially since Karen is buried "in the mix" on Made In America--and that has not been "fixed" since....

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

The entire issue regards "mixes" of the solo recordings confuses me....
Am I to believe that the playback of these solo songs were actually mixed
with Karen sounding bad ? That it took Richard's "genius," and only that, to bring Karen's vocals out front in the "mix" ?
I find it all too incredulous. Am I to believe Phil Ramone was that inept at producing a record ?
Makes no sense,
especially since Karen is buried "in the mix" on Made In America--and that has not been "fixed" since....

The issue that @motownboy mentioned with "Lovelines" (the song) was a technical issue, not a production one. Karen's vocal is really too far back in the mix on the solo album. Richard and the engineer simply turned up a fader to fix that issue. He had the multis so it would have been simple to do. Richard took all his other cues from the mix as presented on the solo album, though performing one edit to remove a chorus at the end and bringing up "holding me tight, every night" to close out the fade which I also liked.

Ed

 

[GaryAlan]

It is of some interest to read what Phil Ramone wrote in 1996:
"I have not remixed or done anything to the tapes. These mixes, the material and style,
are the way Karen approved them."

Notice, too, the bonus track Last One Singin' the Blues...is "unmixed."

 

[newvillefan]

It is of some interest to read what Phil Ramone wrote in 1996:
"I have not remixed or done anything to the tapes. These mixes, the material and style, are the way Karen approved them."

Yet we are meant to believe the album was shelved because it wasn’t completed. Right...

 

[GaryAlan]

Has any other album produced by Phil Ramone ever gotten shelved ?
It is interesting that Entertainment Weekly pretty much pans the album, but, then gives it a grade of C+
which, in my school meant "a bit better than average."
Problem with the assessment of the solo songs (imho) is we are comparing all of the songs to "Carpenters" songs--
and not weighing them against what was being put-out by other artists in that time period.....
Returning to....
My Body Keeps Changing My Mind....
It is a great, infectious, song and Karen does show her versatility with the song !
Had he not heard the tune on Karen's solo album, Richard perhaps never would have chosen that style for any recording.
But, I am glad Karen decided to record it !

 

[Harry]

Has any other album produced by Phil Ramone ever gotten shelved ?

I believe you'll find that there was to be a Paul McCartney album produced by Phil Ramone but it was shelved. Some of the tracks were issued eventually, some as b-sides on other singles, etc., but the album never materialized.

 

[A&M Retro]

The original mix of "Lovelines" was not good. Karen's first vocals in the song are so low in the mix, you can barely hear them. Richard addressed that in his mix. Richard improved the song for me over the original.

I agree on the lead being way too low on the original mix of ‘Lovelines’. Richard definitely improved that one. I still like the original mix due to certain lines being from a different ‘take’ entirely.

 

[Rumbahbah]

Has any other album produced by Phil Ramone ever gotten shelved ?
It is interesting that Entertainment Weekly pretty much pans the album, but, then gives it a grade of C+
which, in my school meant "a bit better than average."
Problem with the assessment of the solo songs (imho) is we are comparing all of the songs to "Carpenters" songs--
and not weighing them against what was being put-out by other artists in that time period.....
Returning to....
My Body Keeps Changing My Mind....
It is a great, infectious, song and Karen does show her versatility with the song !
Had he not heard the tune on Karen's solo album, Richard perhaps never would have chosen that style for any recording.
But, I am glad Karen decided to record it !

Absolutely. Karen may not have been 'born' to do disco, but I think she acquits herself pretty well on it and it still works as a fun song hearing it now. As good as she was at the ballads, an artist has to grow sometimes and try new things.

 

[Rumbahbah]

I agree on the lead being way too low on the original mix of ‘Lovelines’. Richard definitely improved that one. I still like the original mix due to certain lines being from a different ‘take’ entirely.

I can see there's an argument to be made for Karen's voice being too low in the mix on the original version, although the 'feel' of the original is quite delicate, so I can understand why the vocal isn't so prominent in the mix as a result. Indeed, some of the more punchy elements of the remix, like the ramping up of the bass on the intro, actually rather trample on that sense of delicacy in the song. To me that shimmering and gentle intro sounds quite deliberate and needs to be pretty understated - the added bass rather spoils that.

 

[Geographer]

Richard already produced a Karen Carpenter solo album. It’s called Christmas Portrait

Yes, but that was still "his" vision. Not hers necessarily.

 

[Rumbahbah]

Yes, but that was still "his" vision. Not hers necessarily.

Yes, I never really understood that comment for Richard. I guess he felt less involved in the album due to his person issues at the time, which meant he had a reduced role in terms of arranging the songs and playing on them, but his imprint on the album is still very strong. It's not even remotely a solo venture by Karen.

 

[tomswift2002]

Yes, I never really understood that comment for Richard. I guess he felt less involved in the album due to his person issues at the time, which meant he had a reduced role in terms of arranging the songs and playing on them, but his imprint on the album is still very strong. It's not even remotely a solo venture by Karen.

Especially when you think that he opens the album with O Come, O Come Immanuel which is his multi-tracked vocals. And the opening track on Side B (Jingle Bells) features his vocals quite heavily as well. And then Carol Of The Bells is a Richard-piano solo, along with the opening Overture.

And then when you look at both albums as 1 album under the Christmas Collection Richard also has vocal duties on It Came Upon A Midnight Clear, An Old-Fashioned Christmas, Happy Holiday, The First Noel, & O Little Town Of Bethlehem plus he duetted on Do You Hear What I Hear?. An Richard has piano solos on O Holy Night, Here Comes Santa Claus, Frosty The Snowman, Rudolph The Red-Nosed Reindeer, Good King Wencelas, My Favorite Things, & The Nutcracker suite.

 

[Carpe diem]

I also never quite understood Richard referring to Christmas Portrait as a "solo" album for Karen. It is all Richard for a long time, and then Karen finally breaks in with "frosted window panes" and the brilliance begins. Richard is all over the album. It could never be confused with all Karen. It doesn't really matter because the album is a masterpiece. For my two cents, it is the best Christmas holiday album ever recorded.

 

[A&M Retro]

I get the impression that Richard is referring to the 1978 original ‘Christmas Portrait’ album when he says it should have been released as a solo record.

As much as I love the album, I for one do miss the classic K&R harmonies. But, either way, it’s a stupendous work of art.

 

[Kacfan]

I get the impression that Richard is referring to the 1978 original ‘Christmas Portrait’ album when he says it should have been released as a solo record.

As much as I love the album, I for one do miss the classic K&R harmonies. But, either way, it’s a stupendous work of art.

Imagine the Christmas portrait album with k and r harmonies instead of the choir..... and then imagine it done with rpo instead....