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My Latest 45rpm Finds...

Discussion in 'The Beat of The Brass: Herb Alpert/Tijuana Brass' started by Shane, Dec 1, 2017.

  1. Shane

    Shane Member Thread Starter

    I recently bought a huge lot of 30,000 random 45s from a record dealer in LA. It's been a lot of hours of work to sort through everything! But I wanted to share a few interesting Herb Alpert related singles I pulled out of there.

    Starting At The Top Left:
    1) Of course there were a couple early copies of The Lonely Bull... those aren't too scarce.
    2) A little rarer is the TJB's second single on the early style label, "Marching Through Madrid/Struttin' With Maria.
    3) The elusive non-LP "Mexican Drummer Man". I've had a promo copy for a few years. This is the first stock copy I've seen.
    4) This is just odder than odd. The "Melrose Elementary School Band" doesn't sound like an elementary school band. It sounds like a group of professional musicians playing wrong notes on purpose. And I would bet money that is the unmistakable sound of Herb's trumpet playing on "The Pupil"- once again, played poorly on purpose. But really, this single is not good, I don't get the point here, and I don't understand why it got put out.
    5) An oddball Bill Dana single. I recall Herb recently writing a very nice eulogy for him over facebook.

    [​IMG]IMG_3339 by [email protected], on Flickr
     
    Steven J. Gross and Bobberman like this.
  2. Bobberman

    Bobberman Well-Known Member

    Wow Congratulations you Really cleaned up on some mighty fine Collectibles there that Melrose Elementary band description reminds me of another TJB knockoff group called the George Garabedian players featuring the Awful Trumpet of Harry Arms who purposely played Herbs songs out of tune and off key On purpose you can find a few examples on youtube but i warn you you will get tired of it after awhile but its a Comedy/Novelty thing it is what it is. But Again Congratulations on your Treasures
     
  3. 30,000? That must have taken a LOT of time to sort through!

    That Melrose Elementary School Band single does say Herb Alpert wrote the song, and it is an A&M single, so maybe Herb was involved in it? If it's as bad as you say, maybe Alpert just put it out as a joke for some reason. Maybe one of the other high-tier members here can shed some light on it.
     
  4. "Randy Curtis" is Randy Alpert (Badazz) as the young trumpet soloist. Uncle Herb must've been proud enough to put out the record on his newly formed label.
     
    Bobberman likes this.
  5. Shane

    Shane Member Thread Starter

    Wow, I had no idea that was Randy Badazz. I just gave a close listen to "The Pupil" and now I understand what is going on. Herb and Randy are trading off lines, back and forth on trumpets. Hence, the title. Teacher and pupil.
     
    Bobberman likes this.
  6. Rudy

    Rudy ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ Site Admin

    US
    Have you seen one with "A&M" in script lettering, as opposed to using the logo? I have to say that the script logo 45 is still one of the best sounding versions of both songs that I have ever heard--very sharp, very clear. (It helps it is pressed on vinyl, no styrene, and my copy looked to be nearly unplayed.)
     
  7. Shane

    Shane Member Thread Starter

    I just checked my (ever expanding) box of TJB singles. Turns out I actually have three copies with the script logo. Interestingly, two are styrene and only one is real vinyl. I'll have to give that a spin!
     
    Rudy likes this.
  8. Forgive my youth, but what is the difference between styrene and vinyl? I understand both are records, and I know what a record is, but I don't know the difference between those two types.
     
  9. Rudy

    Rudy ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ Site Admin

    US
    Styrene is a more brittle plastic than vinyl. In fact, that is why I rarely will buy an A&M single--styrene does not wear well. A bad stylus easily chews it up, and given how many 45s were treated in the past, I don't trust buying used ones, as a lot of times that wear/damage is not visible. (Styrene 45s that have a grey-ish appearance, though, are really badly worn. A few of my own from when I was a child look that bad.) Vinyl is a lot more durable.
     
  10. Styrene tends to be thicker, vinyl tends to be thinner, but this is a generalization and not always true.
     
  11. Shane

    Shane Member Thread Starter

    Styrene is a cheaper substitute for vinyl. If you hold a 45 by the center hole and then thump the record with your thumbnail, styrene will "ring" a little bit. Vinyl will give a dull thud. Styrene is lighter, less flexible, has squared-off edges, and is generally more brittle. Very roughly, I would say half of the 45s out there were made of styrene and half vinyl. That's just from personal experience.

    Numerous labels tried making LPs out of styrene in the late 1950s and early 60s. However, it was halted after complaints came in about records wearing out prematurely. I have copies (early cream colored label) of the first TJB album pressed using styrene.

    I played my 1st press "script" copies of The Lonely Bull 45. Rudy is correct... the vinyl pressing, specifically, sounds fantastic. The other two styrene copies have fairly average sound. Interestingly, the styrene copies are products of Monarch Recorders (delta symbol and MR in a circle in the trailoff). The vinyl one has completely different markings. It has "A&M 1005-1" and the letter "R" in the trailoff.
     
  12. Thank you guys for being willing to explain things to the resident youngling.
     
    Shane likes this.
  13. Rudy

    Rudy ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ Site Admin

    US
    Never a problem--that's why we're here! :tiphat: @Shane did a more thorough job of explaining the differences. Once you see both side by side, you can easily tell the difference.
     
  14. Coming back from a lunch date in town last week, I "accidentally" got to my bus stop ten minutes too soon. By sheer coincidence, it's next to a second-hand record shop ("Missing" in Glasgow's Argyle Street) so, to kill some time, you understand, I wandered in and found unplayed copies of the single versions of "Keep Your Eye on Me" and "Diamonds" for a pound each. Although I have everything Herb's recorded, by the time the "Keep Your Eye on Me" album came out I'd stopped buying singles, and of course they are both slightly different from the album versions, so I was more than delighted to add them to the collection!!
     
    Rudy likes this.
  15. Questions: you say the single versions are different than the album versions? How so, and why are they different?

    I understand that back in the '60s, singles would have been different because they were in mono while albums were starting to be more in stereo, but, by the '80s, singles would have been in stereo too, wouldn't they have? So, why are they different?
     
  16. Bobberman

    Bobberman Well-Known Member

    The differences are in the way they sound the singles had more compression and sometimes were mixed differently among other factors and most singles were edited versions from the respective albums and it would take up a lot more space to explain the other ways nevertheless it's not just a matter of whether they were in stereo or mono but I hope this helps explain things other I remember that forum members have discussed this in past posts and I was greatly educated had I known then what I know now I wouldn't have let go of my old 45s so many years ago
     
  17. Rudy

    Rudy ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ Site Admin

    US
    45s in the 70s and 80s usually were shortened "single" versions if the album version was a bit long. And they were sometimes remixed also.
     
    Bobberman likes this.

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