Original "Fool On The Hill" CD

[Rudy]

Does anyone have this CD? I don't mean the cheap Rebound reissue, but the standard-issue A&M CD that was released in the mid-late 80's. I saw a copy of it once and should have bought it, but didn't.

I want to compare it to the Rebound and the newest A&M Japan remastered version. I just got that new Japan version today and do NOT like what I am hearing.

 

[Brasil_Nut]

Does anyone have this CD? I saw a copy of it once and should have bought it, but didn't...

Yes, I do...it's in storage in Florida. What did you want to know? How it sounds in comparison to the Rebound version? The rebound version is better (IMHO). Of course, this is all from memory...my things have been sitting in limbo in a Kissimmee storage unit for four years. I do recall being awed by the fact that I actually had Fool on CD (weren't we all wowed by them in those days?) However, I really thought the Rebound reissue sounded better, all the way across the board.

As for "I saw a copy once and should have bought it, but didn't..." Haven't we all been touched with that emotion? I certainly have!

Get this...I worked part time in a Wherehouse store when the original reissues of the TJB albums were a dime a dozen...Do you think I bought one of them? "I'll pick them up later..." I'd tell myself. Famous last words! What a fool I was (and am) for not having taken advantage of this at the time!

I just got that new Japan version today and do NOT like what I am hearing.

Really? Yeah, I have heard this from a couple of people. What's the problem? Tape hiss? No bass? Too much bass? Like you, I'd be interested to know about the Japanese reissue as opposed to the Rebound and/or earlier A&M versions.

Jon

...comparing reissues, online...

Jon

 

[Rudy]

On first listen, FOOL is no-noised just like the Rebound version. I guess I'm wondering if the original FOOL is different from the Rebound...which is what you seem to be saying there.

Next time you're in Detroit, I'll have to get you over to the house to compare FOOL versions.

 

[LPJim]

I've got both the Rebound version and "CD 3108," both of which I found in a mall chain store cutout bin a few years ago. Both were marked down to $2.99, so even though it felt silly at the time to buy two copies of the same music, I'm now glad I did.
CD 3108 has a small cutout notch cut into the jewel box.
JB

 

[Harry]

I've had the old CD 3108 for years. Bought it new when it came out. After some long-ago discussions here about the 'awfulness' of the Rebound version, I bought it cheaply from a cut-out bin just for fun, and did an a/b comparison to see what all the fuss was about. I never heard any differences at all. To me, the Rebound and CD 3108 sounded identical in every respect. I avoided the older Japanese version in the POCM series, so I can't help out there.

When the Japanese remastered version came out, I decided to buy it to see if the sound was improved from the old flat-sounding American releases, charged up by the fact that LOOK AROUND and EQUINOX had gotten such a great treatment and that PAIS, EXPO, and ROOTS had just come out, all sounding great. When FOOL arrived, I listened through, delighted with what I was hearing, particularly on some of the non-hit tracks. Songs like "Fool On The Hill" had been anthologized in many different places, sounding better in some cases, not-so-good in others. It was the non-hit tracks like "Canto Triste" where I heard the biggest differences. The highs and the lows had more punch on this new release, though I could still hear the CSG processing. So for me it was an improvement over the older releases -- and that was all I could ask for.

Harry
NP: two versions of FOOL ON THE HILL - SM & B66

 

[JMK]

I have all three, also--call me a rabid completist (I also have every CD release of the various other titles, too--sheesh). I agree with Harry--the Rebound and 3108 releases sound pretty identical to me (though I have come to realize I am not the audiophile that some on this Board are ). I also think that the "new" Japanese import is better, especially in the extreme registers. There's a lot of nuance is "Festa", for example, that wasn't apparent in the earlier releases, at least to my ears.

 

[Rudy]

I had an engineer check it out via some high-res MP3 files (320kbps). Aside from some MP3 artifacts ("chirping"), we both heard similar things.

Both the Rebound and A&M/Japan have been no-noised...in different ways. They are different masterings. The A&M/Japan has also been EQ'ed (to make up for the noise reduction), and alas, there is some digital brick wall compression due to the mastered level being higher (louder):

Notice how the peaks are clipped right off. Fortunately it doesn't happen too often here, but it's still not good. Also interesting, the Rebound apparently doesn't have any noise reduction on the fade-out, where it does on the A&M/Japan.

Notice too on Crystal Illusions how there is more tape hiss, the high end is duller, and the bottom end is a bit "thumpy". On vinyl, both of these albums are very close sonically, to which the Crystal CD is very close; these CD transfers lead me to believe that Crystal Illusions is more of a straight transfer, vs. Fool being doctored up.

This type of noise reduction was a lot more uncommon in the 80's when the first Fool would have been released.

You think this is bad, wait until I dissect Herb Alpert Presents.

 

[Brasil_Nut]

I've had the old CD 3108 for years. Bought it new when it came out. After some long-ago discussions here about the 'awfulness' of the Rebound version, I bought it cheaply from a cut-out bin just for fun, and did an a/b comparison to see what all the fuss was about. I never heard any differences at all.

As I said, I haven't been able to compare the two of them side-by-side, due to the fact that my 3108 is in storage. However, I've been really pleased with the Rebound version all the way across the board. The CD 3108 sounded very much like the Lp version (to my ears), except there wasn't any popping or scratching typical of Lps. Also, as I said before, we were amazed to even have Fool On The Hill on CD at the time, so anything would have sounded sensational to us! Also, I've not had opportunity to hear the Japanese version as yet. Maybe one of these days. I go for completion, but haven't gone that far yet!

Jon

...thinking he'd best get caught up on Fool On The Hill CDs...

 

[Rudy]

What I'm finding with more of the B66 CDs was that there were a LOT of dropouts on the master tape. In fact, Herb Alpert Presents in A&M/Japan form, is not in good shape at all. If I can hear this over a sh!tty Delco, imagine what it will be like on my GOOD system. My MoFi LP certainly didn't have as many dropouts (I have it on MiniDisc right now), and still has an edge as far as sound quality goes IMHO. (The vinyl is dead quiet.)

My engineer acquaintance did say that overall the A&M/Japan Fool sounded the better of the two he compared (since I dont' have an original CD). It is not apparent on listening to *just* one of the CDs, but the no-noise is also throwing out some of the musical detail as well. Sometimes it is almost better to leave in the tape hiss and keep all the detail intact.

I just need to find a really clean copy of Fool on vinyl to do an ultimate comparison of the versions. Forget cassette or open reel--they both suck.

 

[Brasil_Nut]

Hey Neil!

Re: "Forget cassette or open reel--they both suck..."

Agreed. However, I had a great deal of success transferring many of Dad's open reels to disc. Sure, it took a bit of tweaking here and there, but the end result was amazing. Of course, I don't have the ears of an engineer, but I am an audio buff and like a good, clean copy.

Agreed all the way across the board on cassettes...blech! They suck big time, don't they? No way to really eliminate hiss on a cassette. I'm of the opinion that any playing surface which rubs against another playing surface equals noise and general loss of sonic quality.

Speaking of which, the early A&M cassettes were horrible in comparison to later versions. Mine always had a tendency to tighten, hiss and snap. Also, the inserts were less than masterful in design--a simple piece of cardboard with a mini photo of the album cover does not an attractive package make.

But, I digress...

You're right: a good, clean vinyl copy of Fool On The Hill will give you the ultimate differential in quality from Lp to disc. Keep us posted!

Jon

...Happily spinning his vinyl version of FOTH, online...

 

[Harry]

I don't know... I have a pretty clean copy of FOOL ON THE HILL on LP, and I really don't hear anything sonically wonderful about it in comparison to the CD. We had discussions about the Rebound disc years ago and I compared that to the LP I had without much noticeable difference.

And when I got the Japanese re-issue last year, I dug out that same LP to compare, and I think the new CD beats the LP in sonic fidelity - just what's been noted, higher highs, lower lows, etc. But still only slightly so. No huge dramatic difference like what can be heard on the LOOK AROUND remaster Verve did, just a minor improvement to my ears.

Harry
...comparing FOOLs, online...

 

[Rudy]

To my ears, Fool, Crystal Illusions and Ye-Me-Le sound almost identical--these albums never had a lot of high or low end to begin with, in comparison to the first three. Would probably attribute to the studio and the recording techniques.

 

[Brasil_Nut]

To my ears, Fool, Crystal Illusions and Ye-Me-Le sound almost identical--these albums never had a lot of high or low end to begin with, in comparison to the first three. Would probably attribute to the studio and the recording techniques.

Wow...I just replied to Harry's post and received the error message: "Invalid Session". Lost everything I'd written...drat the luck!

It's ironic that you should mention Fool, Crystal and Ye-Me-Le -- I made a similar point in my lost reply. What I said is that I've always hailed the first three Lps and prized them for sonic purity. HAP is clean and crisp. Equinox has a few drop-outs here and there. Look Around is incredible -- much like HAP in sonic clarity. As for Fool, Crystal and Ye-Me-Le, I always thought that Crystal sounded like a continuation of Fool -- sound-wise and arrangement-wise.

I've mentioned before how Sergio told me he had recorded Ye-Me-Le differently from the others. It was more of a "live-type" recording. He actually utilized one girl per channel - Lani on the left, Karen on the right. Up to this point, he'd double-track Lani, then bring in Janis or Karen for harmonization. Although, from a sonic standpoint, Ye-Me-Le is similar to Fool and Crystal, arrangement-wise it's not. Brandon Bergeron made an incredible comparison of "Some Time Ago" by double-tracking both solos -- one atop the other. It's amazing how much Lani and Karen sound alike in the studio. On stage they do not.

Bottom line being, when it comes to sonic quality, the first three Lps beat the next three hands down (IMHO). I couldn't agree with Neil and Harry any more. They're right on target (as always!)

Jon

 

[stefandaystrom]

I'm of the opinion that any playing surface which rubs against another playing surface equals noise and general loss of sonic quality.

Well, if you limit yourself to physical media used for commercial music distribution, perhaps.

But once you widen that, I can give you several counterexamples:

DAT sounds just as good as CD, despite tape rubbing. (It is, however, more subject to tape dropouts than CD. But that's an issue of magnetic vs non-magnetic media, vinyl isn't subject to dropouts but all tape formats are, despite just as much rubbing in vinyl as in tape.)

And even cassette on a good quality deck sounds a whole lot better than a lot of internet streaming (especiall Real going Really out of phase left and right)! Where's the rubbing in the latter?

 

[Brasil_Nut]

...And even cassette on a good quality deck sounds a whole lot better than a lot of internet streaming (especiall Real going Really out of phase left and right)!

'Ya got me!! I never thought about Internet Streaming, Stefan! Good point!

...Where's the rubbing in the latter?

'Ya got me again! That's hilarious!! And it's so true!! Talk about drop-outs, etc. I'm with 'ya all the way on this one!

Jon

...tickled online...