Passion Dance
- Thread starter Mike Blakesley
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DAN BOLTON
Well-Known Member
thetijuanataxi
Well-Known Member
That's exactly what I took from it. PD was the most Latin sounding album of Herb's solo career except for Fandango. And which fans liked Fandango the most? The TJB fans. So it's not a stretch for Herb to think that his TJB fans would go for PD. Moreover, I don't think Herb would have put a sarcastic dedication to his fans on a CD, even if he might have been thinking it. Herb's game has always been class. Maynard Ferguson, maybe. I could believe he might do something like that.
David,
exuding more of that dimestore psychology..........
David,
exuding more of that dimestore psychology..........
Captaindave
Well-Known Member
Steven J. Gross
Well-Known Member
DAN BOLTON
Well-Known Member
BEBA, CREEPIN', QUE PASA MR. JONES, ROUTE 101, TKO, BAILE CONMIGO et.al. BORING !!??!??? Are you out of your freakin' minds? To each his own, but I think somebody is trying to play armchair psychologist here; and, if that's the case...let me recount my own experience in regard to this subject. Here goes...
When I was a kid, I didn't have a lot of money...and TJB albums were my passion. I was literally spending my entire disposable income on them...and I passionately looked forward to each opportunity to pick up a new record. I waited with baited breath that was so strong that Starkist would have been glad to have me on a tuna boat...no need for a net...the fish would have just jumped into the boat...
I built up each TJB album to the point where Herb would have had to have been a miracle worker [not that he isn't] to have satisfied me. I expected WAAAAY too much, and had to listen to each album several times to gain the proper perspective on what he was trying to accomplish. I kept thinking, "That's it?" It wasn't fair at all, and Herb...I apologize.
I think that that's what's going on here...It had been a long time since a TJB-style album was released, and a lot of people got their hopes up way too high...and nothing could have satisfied them...that's probably why it took Herb so long to do another TJB-style record oin the first place.
If sombody is only interested in TJB material, then they've missed out on a lot of what Herb has tried to accomplish, haven't they? And, recapturing the original TJB sound is virtually impossible, since nearly all the contributors to it are either passed on or retired...
I think the language of the quote was designed to evoke nostalgia...back in the TJB days, a CD was something you got from a bank...so, call it a record...
Give the man a break, people!
Dan
When I was a kid, I didn't have a lot of money...and TJB albums were my passion. I was literally spending my entire disposable income on them...and I passionately looked forward to each opportunity to pick up a new record. I waited with baited breath that was so strong that Starkist would have been glad to have me on a tuna boat...no need for a net...the fish would have just jumped into the boat...
I built up each TJB album to the point where Herb would have had to have been a miracle worker [not that he isn't] to have satisfied me. I expected WAAAAY too much, and had to listen to each album several times to gain the proper perspective on what he was trying to accomplish. I kept thinking, "That's it?" It wasn't fair at all, and Herb...I apologize.
I think that that's what's going on here...It had been a long time since a TJB-style album was released, and a lot of people got their hopes up way too high...and nothing could have satisfied them...that's probably why it took Herb so long to do another TJB-style record oin the first place.
If sombody is only interested in TJB material, then they've missed out on a lot of what Herb has tried to accomplish, haven't they? And, recapturing the original TJB sound is virtually impossible, since nearly all the contributors to it are either passed on or retired...
I think the language of the quote was designed to evoke nostalgia...back in the TJB days, a CD was something you got from a bank...so, call it a record...
Give the man a break, people!
Dan
thetijuanataxi
Well-Known Member
Well said, Dan. PD boring? That's the word we use to describe Kenny G., NSync, Backstreet Boys, no? Even "Yankee Doodle" is not boring when Herb plays it. PD may not be everyone's favorite HA album, but boring is a description I would expect maybe from a 12 year old whose orientation to music is Britney Spears. Certainly not a lifelong HA fan. To each his own I suppose, bur Geez! A TJB fan? Hard to believe.
David,
NP Passion Dance by Herb Alpert
David,
NP Passion Dance by Herb Alpert
I'd be reluctant to call Passion Dance boring, but it IS a far cry from sounding reminiscent of the TJB. "Beba", "Que Pasa, Mr Jones" and "Creepin'" are close, but "no cigar." Among Herb's solo efforts only Fandango (as an entire album) comes close to the "classic TJB sound" (though individual cuts on many albums could qualify). So I'm not agreeing with Steve G 100% -- I just relate to what he means.
--Mr Bill
--Mr Bill
thetijuanataxi
Well-Known Member
I agree that FANDANGO comes closer to the classic TJB sound and it is my favorite solo Herb Alpert album, but PASSION DANCE is also very Latin sounding. It was never meant to mimic the classic TJB sound. Only to have some of the excitement, liveliness and spirit of the TJB albums and on that score it was successful. I think in the quote, Herb meant that it wasn't hip-hoppy or full of drum samples. Many of his older fans felt disconnected when he explored those sounds, so it was his way of letting the TJB segment of fans know that there was something on this album that would interest them.
David,
NP Fandango Herb Alpert
David,
NP Fandango Herb Alpert
PASSION DANCE is indeed Latin-flavored. But TJB-sounding? No. It's a salsa record. The TJB (from SOUTH OF THE BORDER onward, anyway) was a pop band, it was never a salsa band. PASSION DANCE sounds more like Santana - guitars + trumpets to me. The only thing it has in common with the TJB is the horn player!
Mike's got it: "Passion Dance" IS salsa, plain and simple...and hardly a bore. Either you like salsa music, or you don't. I've listened to salsa over the years, and am a fan of Eddie Palmieri, one of the first salsa artists out there, a proponent of the "montuno" style, and still going strong today in fact. In fact, one of the first salsa albums (before it was even labeled as such) was Cal Tjader's "El Sonido Nuevo (The New Soul Sound)", which was recorded with Palmieri. Tito Puente was also one of the major salsa artists; in fact, he had a dual career during the last several years of his career--he did his Latin-jazz albums for Concord Picante, while recording salsa for the Latin market. In light of this, "Passion Dance" holds up very well. Latin does not necessarily equal Tijuana Brass, and despite the little TJB nod on that album, it really had nothing to do with the old-style Mexican sound.
Reading this series of posts, I get the impression that there aren't very many musicians in the house here. I get tired of people whining and moaning 
about the music Herb has created over the years, especially after the TJB.
First off, all of the original TJB members were in their late 20's or early 30's. They were very good players for that time frame. The music was very simple, very melodic, and arranged very creatively by Herb in a mexicali pop fashion. Something which had not been done before, and it became a hit. The problem is, you can only use the same formula for so long before the band and/or the listening public get bored with it.
Exit the TJB. Herb has never been a quitter! On top of being a great player, arranger, he has always been a great business man. This is why every project from then on out has been a creative display with many fruitful branches. From his collaborations with Hugh Masekela, and hooking up with Armer and Badazz for several albums.
I agree with one thing! You have to look at what Herb was trying to accomplish with each project. As you move through his recorded output, one thing is for certain! The musicianship on all of the projects are stellar! I hate to admit this, but most of the original TJB members could not hold a candle ( technically ) to most of the later musicians. Passion Dance and Herb Alpert & Colors are technical masterpieces, but they are not the TJB. It's tough to go back in time and recreate something that doesn't exit any more.
Be thankful everyone, that we have been blessed with the 40 plus years of Herb Alpert's creativity. Nobody has the right to knock or condone what he has done. May his output continue!!!
about the music Herb has created over the years, especially after the TJB.First off, all of the original TJB members were in their late 20's or early 30's. They were very good players for that time frame. The music was very simple, very melodic, and arranged very creatively by Herb in a mexicali pop fashion. Something which had not been done before, and it became a hit. The problem is, you can only use the same formula for so long before the band and/or the listening public get bored with it.
Exit the TJB. Herb has never been a quitter! On top of being a great player, arranger, he has always been a great business man. This is why every project from then on out has been a creative display with many fruitful branches. From his collaborations with Hugh Masekela, and hooking up with Armer and Badazz for several albums.
I agree with one thing! You have to look at what Herb was trying to accomplish with each project. As you move through his recorded output, one thing is for certain! The musicianship on all of the projects are stellar! I hate to admit this, but most of the original TJB members could not hold a candle ( technically ) to most of the later musicians. Passion Dance and Herb Alpert & Colors are technical masterpieces, but they are not the TJB. It's tough to go back in time and recreate something that doesn't exit any more.
Be thankful everyone, that we have been blessed with the 40 plus years of Herb Alpert's creativity. Nobody has the right to knock or condone what he has done. May his output continue!!!
Captain Bacardi
Well-Known Member
Hurrikane - Nobody's knocking anybody. And, whether a person's a musician or not has NOTHING to do with whether he likes certain types of music, or not.
But tastes do vary among the membership here. Some of us love Herb's newer stuff. Some think the TJB stuff cannot be beat. Still others don't care what it sounds like, if it's Herb, they love it. There's nothing wrong with disliking some of an artist's output. Just because "it's him" doesn't make it great in everyone's ears.
I myself have probably heard at least 97% of Herb's recorded music. (I've never heard COLORS.) I've probably wanted to RE-listen to maybe about 60% of it, because there's some I don't like. That doesn't diminish my respect for him as a musician.
Thanks Cap'n for splitting the thread. I was gonna do that and got busy with other things. (Work....what a pain!)
But tastes do vary among the membership here. Some of us love Herb's newer stuff. Some think the TJB stuff cannot be beat. Still others don't care what it sounds like, if it's Herb, they love it. There's nothing wrong with disliking some of an artist's output. Just because "it's him" doesn't make it great in everyone's ears.
I myself have probably heard at least 97% of Herb's recorded music. (I've never heard COLORS.) I've probably wanted to RE-listen to maybe about 60% of it, because there's some I don't like. That doesn't diminish my respect for him as a musician.
Thanks Cap'n for splitting the thread. I was gonna do that and got busy with other things. (Work....what a pain!)
martin
Well-Known Member
Personally I think I have heard close to everything that Herb has recorded, even including his pre-TJB singles. Being a musician myself, I tend to listen to Herb's music in at least two different ways. The old TJB records are "more than music" to me. They bring back memories and a special mood, and as for many of us here they were the introduction to good music.
I find that my approach to all of the post TJB material is different and more analytical. I also belong to the group that holds "Fandango" as the most loved album, undoubtedly because it has so much of the TJB atmosphere in it. The "Passion Dance" album is IMHO a very good album, but it still lacks the energy that was present on the live concert that I experienced in Copenhagen in the summer of 97. This was, I believe, as close to a "TJB experience" that I will ever have concert wise. In the 60's the TJB hit something special. It was the right time, the right sound in the right place. And soon we can enjoy it all again...
- greetings from the cold north -
Martin
I find that my approach to all of the post TJB material is different and more analytical. I also belong to the group that holds "Fandango" as the most loved album, undoubtedly because it has so much of the TJB atmosphere in it. The "Passion Dance" album is IMHO a very good album, but it still lacks the energy that was present on the live concert that I experienced in Copenhagen in the summer of 97. This was, I believe, as close to a "TJB experience" that I will ever have concert wise. In the 60's the TJB hit something special. It was the right time, the right sound in the right place. And soon we can enjoy it all again...
- greetings from the cold north -
Martin
Captaindave
Well-Known Member
This is an interesting thread, isn't it?
FWIW, I am a musician - I come from a musical background - have had a variety of musical experiences and training...I do not make a living from music these days, but I have played professionally for many years, and am a trained trumpet player. I have played a lot of different styles, from classical to rock, from Herb to Motown...etc.
I hold Herb Alpert in the highest possible esteem. I would far prefer to play trumpet like Herb than Maynard, or Wynton, or Doc, or Arturo. Herb's music has always been THE big thing musically for me, since about 1965, when I got Going Places and started taking trumpet lessons.
Herb became a "household name" back in the sixties because of the enormous popularity of the style and sound of the Tijuana Brass. No matter what he does, that will always be THE reference point for his musical and professional career. Millions of people around the world know Herb because of songs like Tijuana Taxi and A Taste of Honey; not because of the Passion Dance CD or the collaborations with people like Janet Jackson.
I will speak for myself and be happy with anyone who wants to keep me company on this...I absolutely despise urban, rap, disco, techno, synth and drum and bass thump, thump, thump..."dance and trance" music. Did I say I hate rap? I want to be sure I did...becasue I absolutely despise rap...OK, I feel better now...
When Herb went into those areas musically, I did not lose any respect for him. I still saw him as a genius; he was still an extremely talented trumpet player and musician; and perhaps simply looking into seeing what he might do in those areas; particularly commercially, since these were popular trends.
BUT, I myself held back on the purchase of those albums, because I personally did not like them.
With Fandango and Passion Dance, I heard some of the sounds that I personally like, and they both remind me of the Herb Alpert that I grew up listening to and the Herb Alpert that has always been a huge influence on me.
FWIW, I am a musician - I come from a musical background - have had a variety of musical experiences and training...I do not make a living from music these days, but I have played professionally for many years, and am a trained trumpet player. I have played a lot of different styles, from classical to rock, from Herb to Motown...etc.
I hold Herb Alpert in the highest possible esteem. I would far prefer to play trumpet like Herb than Maynard, or Wynton, or Doc, or Arturo. Herb's music has always been THE big thing musically for me, since about 1965, when I got Going Places and started taking trumpet lessons.
Herb became a "household name" back in the sixties because of the enormous popularity of the style and sound of the Tijuana Brass. No matter what he does, that will always be THE reference point for his musical and professional career. Millions of people around the world know Herb because of songs like Tijuana Taxi and A Taste of Honey; not because of the Passion Dance CD or the collaborations with people like Janet Jackson.
I will speak for myself and be happy with anyone who wants to keep me company on this...I absolutely despise urban, rap, disco, techno, synth and drum and bass thump, thump, thump..."dance and trance" music. Did I say I hate rap? I want to be sure I did...becasue I absolutely despise rap...OK, I feel better now...
When Herb went into those areas musically, I did not lose any respect for him. I still saw him as a genius; he was still an extremely talented trumpet player and musician; and perhaps simply looking into seeing what he might do in those areas; particularly commercially, since these were popular trends.
BUT, I myself held back on the purchase of those albums, because I personally did not like them.
With Fandango and Passion Dance, I heard some of the sounds that I personally like, and they both remind me of the Herb Alpert that I grew up listening to and the Herb Alpert that has always been a huge influence on me.
Captain Dave, I couldn't agree more! It's nice to hear from another musician! Back in 1964 I was 9 yrs old. My parents pretty much couldn't stand one another, so there was a lot of tension in the house. The one possitive memory I have from back then was the fact that my parents loved HA & the TJB. When I was 10yrs old I wanted to be a trumpet player. My dad said I was a natural athelete back then and said it would be easier for me if I played drums. Well 1966 came around and it has been 39 years so far. By the way, I hate rap music too! 
.
I was playing big band and TJB music long before I started loving Rock and Roll. It had a tremendous emotional and musical impact on me. Nick Ceroli was probably my greatest early influence as a drummer. Listening to those records today I am still blown away by some of his creativity.
I was very disappointed when the Summertime album came out. I could tell that Nick was no longer there! 
I still hate rap music!
I do agree with the fact that if I never would have heard the TJB first, the HA solo material probably would not have had the same impact.
All through Herb's solo career I kept waiting for that next TJB sounding album! And I will agree, the closest it has come was with Fandango and Passion Dance in that order. Maybe Herb is releasing the rarities knowing this will be the closest thing he can give his fans to having a new TJB album. Thank you Herb!!!
By the way Captain Dave, I can still do that Fandango CD for you if needed. Bet you thought I was gonna say I hate rap!! I still do! The TJB lives on!
.I was playing big band and TJB music long before I started loving Rock and Roll. It had a tremendous emotional and musical impact on me. Nick Ceroli was probably my greatest early influence as a drummer. Listening to those records today I am still blown away by some of his creativity.
I was very disappointed when the Summertime album came out. I could tell that Nick was no longer there! I still hate rap music! I do agree with the fact that if I never would have heard the TJB first, the HA solo material probably would not have had the same impact.
All through Herb's solo career I kept waiting for that next TJB sounding album! And I will agree, the closest it has come was with Fandango and Passion Dance in that order. Maybe Herb is releasing the rarities knowing this will be the closest thing he can give his fans to having a new TJB album.
Thank you Herb!!! By the way Captain Dave, I can still do that Fandango CD for you if needed. Bet you thought I was gonna say I hate rap!! I still do!
The TJB lives on!Captaindave
Well-Known Member
Hurrikane said:Captain Dave, I couldn't agree more! It's nice to hear from another musician! Back in 1964 I was 9 yrs old. My parents pretty much couldn't stand one another, so there was a lot of tension in the house. The one possitive memory I have from back then was the fact that my parents loved HA & the TJB. When I was 10yrs old I wanted to be a trumpet player. My dad said I was a natural athelete back then and said it would be easier for me if I played drums. Well 1966 came around and it has been 39 years so far. By the way, I hate rap music too!
I was playing big band and TJB music long before I started loving Rock and Roll. It had a tremendous emotional and musical impact on me. Nick Ceroli was probably my greatest early influence as a drummer. Listening to those records today I am still blown away by some of his creativity.
I do agree with the fact that if I never would have heard the TJB first, the HA solo material probably would not have had the same impact.
All through Herb's solo career I kept waiting for that next TJB sounding album! And I will agree, the closest it has come was with Fandango and Passion Dance in that order. Maybe Herb is releasing the rarities knowing this will be the closest thing he can give his fans to having a new TJB album.
By the way Captain Dave, I can still do that Fandango CD for you if needed. Bet you thought I was gonna say I hate rap!! I still do!
Hurrikane,
Please check your PM...
Like many folk here I've heard pretty much everything Herb's done (except - funnily enough - "Colors") and some things I like a lot better than others. His talent as a jazz musician shines throughout, but right now my favourite stuff ranges from the 60s TJB albums (although after "SRO" there isn't so much material that really set me on fire) through the Alpert/Masekala albums (both of which I love) through the last vinyls ("Fandango" and side one of "Bullish" are both terrific) to current material (The guest track on the Ry Cooder album, "Mambo Sinuendo" is in grave danger of wearing out because I play it so often).
I'm as excited as anyone here about the re-releases especially the "new" stuff, but I'm realistic to expect that I won't like every single track - and that whatever I do like someone here will dislike just as equally!
I'm as excited as anyone here about the re-releases especially the "new" stuff, but I'm realistic to expect that I won't like every single track - and that whatever I do like someone here will dislike just as equally!
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