Ticket to Ride, Passage, Made in America gold status yet?

I can see that it's been a very emotional day for many forum members-and I'm sort of flabbergasted that my last post was taken so out-of-context.

A few comments about this situation:

I wasn't aware that "melodramatic" was a rude or offensive term-it's actually a very polite term to address a situation where there's too much chatter or "drama".

For the record,I don't have any "friction" with any forum members-and GaryAlan knows he is a valued member of this forum.

The purpose of this forum is not just to express ideas and opinions between members,but to provide educational and fact-based information about Carpenters,and other A&M artists.Many forum members are asking questions,and there are those of us who have this information,that are trying to providing answers to those questions.And,usually when I answer somebody's question,I provide the source from where I received the information.That's why I mentioned in my last post that members could learn so much more if they would listen a little bit more-instead of constantly asking "Is this really true" and "where is truth".Unfortunately,many people have a preconceived idea of what the truth is on a particular issue-and their not willing to accept the facts that are being presented.

The initial question on this thread was regarding gold certification for "Ticket","Passage" and MIA in the US.Subsequent posts were getting off-topic by debating figures about International sales and Karen's solo album.

The priority of every US artist is to see their albums sell well in the US-international sales are the "icing on the cake".To use this analogy: The Tan album was a blockbuster album-selling over four million copies in the US.If it sold well in The UK or Japan,that would be an added bonus to it's success-but it doesn't make or break the situation.It would still be a blockbuster album even if International sales were poor.
 
mr J. said:
Where did you get the idea that the overall success of an album is affected by International sales? If a US album sells well in the US,then it is a successful album-regardless of how well it sold Internationally.K&R were American recording artists,and we live in the US-what's going on with International record sales is just an afterthought.
Click to expand...
Conversely, if an album does not do well in the U.S. but does do well internationally, then it is a successful album. (Cue Abba and many others.) Commercial success is not defined solely by success in the U.S., which is relevant to this discussion in terms of album sales. Offering/Ticket to Ride may never achieve "gold" status in the U.S., but it's reasonable to believe that it has sold an equivalent number of units worldwide. That's also why it would be interesting to know how many units of Karen's solo album have been sold. If we go solely by how many were sold in the U.S., then it might not be deemed commercially successful, but the cumulative total worldwide could be far more impressive. That's why it's sad to me that there appears to be no objective way of determining that total sales figure.
 
I must, perhaps, ask for some forgiveness in this respect (and offer a brief story):
As my profession revolves around theoretical physics, it is of my very nature to ask questions....even if those same
questions have been previously answered with authority.
Personally, my academic library consists of roughly 200 separate volumes on the topic of Quantum Mechanics,
and one would rightfully ask..."Is not one authoritative tome on the topic enough?....
Well, of course, the answer is "No", as the subject is still actively pursued in various research avenues since its inception in 1925.
On that topic, Einstein was an authority, as was Heisenberg, Schrodinger and other Nobelists in Physics.
Does that imply that present day Physicists are not allowed to question them?
Of course Not. They are challenged every day in Laboratories.

I intend no disrespect to anyone on the forum when I ask further questions.
And, I appreciate and digest their answers.
Obviously, there are those here possessive of more knowledge and information regarding
Karen and Richard Carpenter, and their musical output, than I.
But, it is my personal opinion, that learning about them, and their legacy, is an ongoing enterprise.
It is an enterprise which I cherish. (Perhaps on par with the physics!).

Not only do I try to rid myself of preconceived ideas of truth, I am quite uncertain as to
what it is that constitutes "The Truth".
But, that's just a personality quirk, and, regrettably, it can become annoying!
So, if I do irritate with persistent queries, by all means, ignore my posts.

Either way, I appreciate the participation of every member, and wish them only the best!
 
Sales are Sales....regardless of location.

I'll never forget when the British compilation 'Only Yesterday' stayed at Number One for something like FIFTEEN weeks in 1990!! That was beyond cool. I spent a week in London in 2000, and Carpenters were displayed prominently at Virgin, Tower, HMV and other places.

Obviously, U.K. audiences are much more open-minded regarding their favorite artists....American or not. And the chart placement of a variety of artists on their playlists confirm it. It reminded me of the fantastic heydey of American Top 40....when 'Smoke On The Water' and 'Yesterday Once More' shared the Top 10 in the same week.
 
GaryAlan, you shouldn't feel any need to apologise. Your posts have often provided new details or drawn to attention to articles that I've never seen before, so I'm very grateful to you for that. We all have slightly different ways of articulating ourselves when posting and I think we just all need to accept that. There's nothing wrong with questioning 'facts'/'truth' when these are often more subjective than some may claim is the case.

I realise this thread has drifted a bit from its original starting point, but it has raised an interesting point as a result about the Carpenters' international audience and its influence. Although the US was indeed the main basis and support for the Carpenters during the 1970s, from the 1990s onwards, I'd posit that the international audience (and particularly the UK and Japan) have overtaken the US in terms of supporting and furthering their legacy.

The 'Only Yesterday' and 'Gold' compilations both sold over a million copies in the UK, while the '22 Hits' compilation sold over two million copies in Japan. As far as I'm aware, in the US, no album has sold over a million copies since 1990. Radio support for the duo also remains strong on national stations in countries like the UK, which, as has been noted in numerous posts recently, isn't the case in the US beyond the Christmas market.
 
carponlyyest1.jpg
carponlyyest2.jpg
carponlyyest3.jpg


Of the three different covers of that compilation, I've only gotten the red-covered German version, and a VCD with a similar cover that has the YESTERDAY ONCE MORE video on it.

Harry
 
I also have that red cover German version above and I also have that VCD of Only Yesterday (polygram video) mpeg 1 compatible and not the best quality but it was great at the time, I'm not sure if that VCD was an import or if I got it here in the US cat #043-131-2
 
I'm pretty sure that the VCD was only available in Asia. I got mine from an online store in Malaysia.
 
mr J. said:
I can see that it's been a very emotional day for many forum members-and I'm sort of flabbergasted that my last post was taken so out-of-context.

I wasn't aware that "melodramatic" was a rude or offensive term-it's actually a very polite term to address a situation where there's too much chatter or "drama".
Click to expand...

No, it absolutely isn't. LOL! I hate to jump in this but I truly do so only for edification, not because I'm trying to restart the fire...I promise...:)

From dictionary.com:

Melodramatic: exaggerated and emotional or sentimental; sensational or sensationalized; overdramatic.

Okay, so that's out of the way... :wink:

All of those albums remain available on iTunes for download. That said, it's quite possible all three have been certified by now. Add to that ongoing Japanese popularity, all three are likely certified by now.

Ed
 
From Wikipedia, for what it's worth:

"for an award to be made, the record label must request certification and pay a fee to have the sales of the recording audited."

There's a very large probability that no-one at what passes for A&M at Universal gives a rat's ___ about forty plus year old Carpenters albums and are not about to spend current money to determine an award status. It's all up to the label.

Harry
 
Which, Harry, raises another question:
How often are sales audited for an artist.
How reliable are figures that are already easily available?
Carpenters actual sales figures do seem hard to pin down in an accurate, reliable, verifiable fashion.
(Except for the Grand Worldwide Total of 100-120 Million)
(Although, Liner Notes on various compilations seem to be the best indicator, post 1983).
Sales must be(?) audited each year regardless of cerification issues with RIAA (or any other award-tallying organization).(?)
In particular, I recall 1998 as a year of RIAA updates for Carpenters awards/sales. (If I recall, it was even news-worthy).
Perhaps I am belaboring an issue that is irrelevant in the overall scheme of things!
Oh well, an interesting discussion, never-the-less.
 
Rumbahbah said:
I realise this thread has drifted a bit from its original starting point, but it has raised an interesting point as a result about the Carpenters' international audience and its influence. Although the US was indeed the main basis and support for the Carpenters during the 1970s, from the 1990s onwards, I'd posit that the international audience (and particularly the UK and Japan) have overtaken the US in terms of supporting and furthering their legacy.
Click to expand...
You make a great point. I also think that, while the United States was once the gold standard for sales in the entertainment industry, I'm not sure that's the case anymore. For many years, the U.S. had the manufacturing and marketing infrastructure in place, plus a large population with disposable income, to make it the gold ring that those in the entertainment industry reached for. After all, if you sold well in the U.S., you were ensured of having a ready-made hit even if that album (or movie, or whatever) tanked elsewhere in the world. Whereas the reverse wasn't always necessarily true. But especially now, with the industry so decentralized, and other nations having as large, or even larger, populations reaching middle-class status, I don't think the U.S. has the same prominence, in terms of sheer buying power, that it once did. If worldwide sales were once deemed "inconsequential" because of the U.S.'s singular buying power, I don't think that's true anymore ... and probably hasn't been for quite a while now.
 
Many astute observations!
Here is a timeline, of sorts, incomplete as it is
1973 worldwide sales: Over 20 Million (Billboard Magazine 1973)
1975 worldwide sales: 25 Million (Horizon Tourbook)
1979 worldwide sales 55 Million (Decade Fan Club Book)
1987 worldside sales 75 Million (Quoted by Herb Alpert, page 16, A&M Records First 25 Years)
2004 worldwide sales top 100 Million (Richard Carpenter Liner Notes Gold Compilation).

Derek Green, "The Carpenters were so popular in the UK that they effectively subsidized the first couple of years
of the British Company's existence." (page 45, A&M Records First 25 Years).
 
GaryAlan said:
Many astute observations!
Here is a timeline, of sorts, incomplete as it is
1973 worldwide sales: Over 20 Million (Billboard Magazine 1973)
1975 worldwide sales: 25 Million (Horizon Tourbook)
1979 worldwide sales 55 Million (Decade Fan Club Book)
1987 worldside sales 75 Million (Quoted by Herb Alpert, page 16, A&M Records First 25 Years)
2004 worldwide sales top 100 Million (Richard Carpenter Liner Notes Gold Compilation).

Derek Green, "The Carpenters were so popular in the UK that they effectively subsidized the first couple of years
of the British Company's existence." (page 45, A&M Records First 25 Years).
Click to expand...

Gary: Those numbers sound accurate to me. At the time of Karen's passing in 1983, Carpenters had sold 60 million worldwide. That number falls in line accurately with the numbers you included above.
 
Thanks for those figures, Gary, they're nice to have. 100 million--whatever that measure may be (dollars, units? Not clear to me from the discussion, did I miss it??)--indicates an achievement of immense significance that should not be snubbed by the bozos at the R&R Hall of Fame!

One other thought: thank goodness for those Japanese fans, whose ongoing loyalty and enthusiasm have brought about some of the best repackaging efforts on the part of Richard...without them, we might not have access to that stellar remix of "Road Ode" that turned up on a Japanese release...my world would definitely not be the same without it!!
 
GaryAlan said:
I must, perhaps, ask for some forgiveness in this respect (and offer a brief story):
As my profession revolves around theoretical physics, it is of my very nature to ask questions....even if those same
questions have been previously answered with authority.
Personally, my academic library consists of roughly 200 separate volumes on the topic of Quantum Mechanics,
and one would rightfully ask..."Is not one authoritative tome on the topic enough?....
Well, of course, the answer is "No", as the subject is still actively pursued in various research avenues since its inception in 1925.
On that topic, Einstein was an authority, as was Heisenberg, Schrodinger and other Nobelists in Physics.
Does that imply that present day Physicists are not allowed to question them?
Of course Not. They are challenged every day in Laboratories.

I intend no disrespect to anyone on the forum when I ask further questions.
And, I appreciate and digest their answers.
Obviously, there are those here possessive of more knowledge and information regarding
Karen and Richard Carpenter, and their musical output, than I.
But, it is my personal opinion, that learning about them, and their legacy, is an ongoing enterprise.
It is an enterprise which I cherish. (Perhaps on par with the physics!).

Not only do I try to rid myself of preconceived ideas of truth, I am quite uncertain as to
what it is that constitutes "The Truth".
But, that's just a personality quirk, and, regrettably, it can become annoying!
So, if I do irritate with persistent queries, by all means, ignore my posts.

Either way, I appreciate the participation of every member, and wish them only the best!
Click to expand...
GARY- I understand your thought process on this issue,and do apologize for being a bit abrasive in my last post.

But,unlike science and physics,statistics on albums sales are a simple black-and-white issue.There's nothing to be explored or analyzed in that regard.If a question regarding album sales figures is answered by a legitimate source,then it's not a question any longer.
 
Rumbahbah said:
GaryAlan, you shouldn't feel any need to apologise. Your posts have often provided new details or drawn to attention to articles that I've never seen before, so I'm very grateful to you for that. We all have slightly different ways of articulating ourselves when posting and I think we just all need to accept that. There's nothing wrong with questioning 'facts'/'truth' when these are often more subjective than some may claim is the case.

I realise this thread has drifted a bit from its original starting point, but it has raised an interesting point as a result about the Carpenters' international audience and its influence. Although the US was indeed the main basis and support for the Carpenters during the 1970s, from the 1990s onwards, I'd posit that the international audience (and particularly the UK and Japan) have overtaken the US in terms of supporting and furthering their legacy.

The 'Only Yesterday' and 'Gold' compilations both sold over a million copies in the UK, while the '22 Hits' compilation sold over two million copies in Japan. As far as I'm aware, in the US, no album has sold over a million copies since 1990. Radio support for the duo also remains strong on national stations in countries like the UK, which, as has been noted in numerous posts recently, isn't the case in the US beyond the Christmas market.
Click to expand...
Christmas Portrait and Yesterday Once More have both sold over a million copies in the US since 1990.

I would agree that the international market has been very strong in supporting Karen's legacy.The situation that exists now is totally different from when Karen was living & was an active recording artist.Back then K&R were pursuing and maintaining their recording career-whereas now it's totally an issue of preserving Karen's legacy.

But,make no mistake,K&R's catalog has sold extremely well in the US since Karen's death.And,A&M's senior VP of sales admitted to me in 1998 that K&R were still the best-selling artist on the label(15 years after Karen's death.)That was also the year that Love Songs was a bestselling disc-certified gold within six months of release.
 
byline said:
Conversely, if an album does not do well in the U.S. but does do well internationally, then it is a successful album. (Cue Abba and many others.) Commercial success is not defined solely by success in the U.S., which is relevant to this discussion in terms of album sales. Offering/Ticket to Ride may never achieve "gold" status in the U.S., but it's reasonable to believe that it has sold an equivalent number of units worldwide. That's also why it would be interesting to know how many units of Karen's solo album have been sold. If we go solely by how many were sold in the U.S., then it might not be deemed commercially successful, but the cumulative total worldwide could be far more impressive. That's why it's sad to me that there appears to be no objective way of determining that total sales figure.
Click to expand...
The problem is that each country keeps records of their own sales figures.And,certifications are issued within each country according to their own minimum requirements.There are no certifications for total worldwide sales-an estimated worldwide figure can only be determined from rounding up approximate sales figures from each country.

The only thing we really need to know is that wordwide sales are around 100 million.
 
ThaFunkyFakeTation said:
No, it absolutely isn't. LOL! I hate to jump in this but I truly do so only for edification, not because I'm trying to restart the fire...I promise...:)

From dictionary.com:

Melodramatic: exaggerated and emotional or sentimental; sensational or sensationalized; overdramatic.

Okay, so that's out of the way... :wink:

All of those albums remain available on iTunes for download. That said, it's quite possible all three have been certified by now. Add to that ongoing Japanese popularity, all three are likely certified by now.

Ed
Click to expand...
Those three albums may have been certified gold in the UK or Japan,but they have not been certified in the US.And they've been out-of-print for several years.

Sales on iTunes for those albums would be negligible-if it's not selling on CD,it's not going to sell decently on iTunes,either.
 
Harry said:
From Wikipedia, for what it's worth:

"for an award to be made, the record label must request certification and pay a fee to have the sales of the recording audited."

There's a very large probability that no-one at what passes for A&M at Universal gives a rat's ___ about forty plus year old Carpenters albums and are not about to spend current money to determine an award status. It's all up to the label.

Harry
Click to expand...
Harry-you hit the nail on the head!Universal wouldn't be concerned about getting forty-year old albums certified,unless the artist had a recent career revival.

In addition to paying the fee,Universal would have to provide necessary documentation of album sales to the RIAA-and that is,if Universal preserved the forty-years worth of documentation.
 
Hi
While researchin Carpenters on Charts and apart from the U K they were actually more popular in Countries like Japan,Malaysia and Singapore than Europe .In Countries like Germany they only have a few Charted singles and their Albums never really took off in Germany .
Thoughts anyone?
 
mr J. said:
GARY- I understand your thought process on this issue,and do apologize for being a bit abrasive in my last post.

But,unlike science and physics,statistics on albums sales are a simple black-and-white issue.There's nothing to be explored or analyzed in that regard.If a question regarding album sales figures is answered by a legitimate source,then it's not a question any longer.
Click to expand...

Actually album sales are anything but black and white - not in this day and age. Numbers are increasingly muddled by streaming, downloading, etc. Which really was the biggest selling album of 2014? Take your pick.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/05/b...as-the-no-1-album-of-2014-and-vice-versa.html
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar discussions

05_LF
First time poster, long time lurker
Replies
5
Views
347
Mark-T
Mark-T
Mike Blakesley
Head East's "hit" single and album on A&M
Replies
2
Views
267
Mike Blakesley
Mike Blakesley
Mike Blakesley
Concert review: Journey (with special guest Toto)
Replies
3
Views
623
GDBY2LV
GDBY2LV
Mike Blakesley
Describe your best playlists!
Replies
8
Views
268
Harry
Harry
Bobberman
HERB OHTA'S Song for Anna and Feelings are Availible as two albums on one CD on Amazon
Replies
4
Views
446
Bobberman
Bobberman
Back
Top Bottom