Tijuana Brass and Jack Jones

[lorelei]

If you'll excuse my ignorance as a new member, I've become especially interested in the music of my young childhood (before I was even old enough to buy records), particularly the TJB/Herb Alpert, Jack Jones, and Bert Kaempfert. I did end up being old enough to own Rise and a few other Alpert solo LPs that followed, but I lost track of his music after that, due to the sad disappearance of intrumentals from radio. Needless to say, I have much to catch up on (I'm currently getting myself reacquainted through the TJB Collector's Edition and Rise '97 reissue), and I can already see that there's much information to be found on this forum.

One song which has always piqued my curiosity is Jack Jones' Now I Know, which was a popular single from his last Kapp album, Our Song, in 1967. It definitely sounds like the TJB playing the brass which comes in at the bridge and playing through the end, but IS it them, or just an imitation? I know that Kapp hired the TJB to record vocal versions of The Lonely Bull and La Paloma with Jack, but did they also work as musicians-for-hire for the label? It looks like, back in the 60s, that musicians got paid a flat sum, and didn't get their names on credits or share in royalties. I do hope that someday MCA will dig up The Lonely Bull and La Paloma from the archives and give them their proper release, as I've never heard them. Honestly, between MCA keeping so much Jack Jones music buried for the last 42 years and A&M deleting so much TJB/Alpert music from their catalogue, I definitely picked the wrong acts to follow , but, all of it has been interesting and rewarding nonetheless.

TIA!
Mary

 

[bob knack]

It doesn't answer your question, but here's a bit of info, The Baja Marimba Band was the opening act for Jack Jones in 1967. I saw them at the Civic Theatre in downtown Chicago that summer. Maybe it was them.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

I know that Kapp hired the TJB to record vocal versions of The Lonely Bull and La Paloma with Jack,

I'm not quite sure about this. I've never heard it mentioned before...

TJB imitations were rampant during their heyday so it's highly likely they used some other group.

 

[Harry]

The Jack Jones/"Lonely Bull" topic came up last year:

http://www.amcorner.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8516

I found a copy of it on eBay as I recall. It does sound remarkably like Herb's own recording except it's in a different key.

Harry

 

[lorelei]

So maybe it's become a "legend" that it's really the TJB on that old Lonely Bull/La Paloma 45. I guess when songs have been unavailable for so long, that's always bound to happen. Definitive answer or not, I greatly appreciate all your thoughts on this.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

Thanks to Harry I now am aware of the Alpert/Jones connection. Not sure how I missed that before!

 

[JOv2]

...I've become especially interested in the music of my young childhood (before I was even old enough to buy records), particularly the TJB/Herb Alpert, Jack Jones, and Bert Kaempfert...

Being a connoisseur of Jack Jones (who pretty much represents the caboose of the classic "male vocalist" era -- gaining popularity along side you know who from Liverpool!), you're no doubt aware of Nelson Riddle's exceptional score of the Beatles' And I Love Her (also covered by the TJB -- and left in the can until Lost Treasures)...the McCartney piece has been covered about 132,485 times, but I've heard no better match between singer, content, and arrangement than the Jack Jones / Nelson Riddle offering from the 1965 Kapp LP [There's Love & There's Love & There's Love]. Riddle delivers a tension-filled, haunting arrangement that adds a unique layer of intrigue to Jones' youthful tenor.

...between MCA keeping so much Jack Jones music buried for the last 42 years...

MCA-UK issued six Kapp titles as two-fers about 8 years back...I routinely see them in the local shoppe here in Berkeley.

 

[lorelei]

I do own those two-fers, and I totally agree about Riddle & Jones' There's Love and There's Love and There's Love. It was an amazing match-up and an amazing achievement that's terribly underappreciated today. Only Jack Jones had the great, fluid range, and the youth and tenderness in his voice to have delivered this lush romance-themed album.

Now while it may appear, on the surface, that MCA was being generous with these two-fer releases, they really were not - at least not in ways that mattered. Go back to the early-70s, when Jack was suddenly forced to play Vegas or any country that would book him. He soon develops a loyal fanbase in the UK, where concertgoing is a major pastime. The country is tiny, the venues are within driving distance of each other, so fans travel from one location to the next, attending most or all of Jones' concert dates, and they've continued to do this for over 30 years now. MCA's UK division observes this, and they soon convince the world, to this day, that Jack Jones' "greatest" fans are in Britain. So, they eventually issue these two-fers, including liner notes by British-born music producer and historian Ken Barnes, and package them specifically for UK fans (while MCA-USA only offers a single-disc Greatest Hits collections for Americans, in addition to licensing Collector's Choice to issue a substandard copy - FROM VINYL - of Impossible Dream). But few of Jack's UK fans even care about his Kapp years or the styles of music they contain, so who buys these two-fers? AMERICANS buy them, as imports. It was predominantly Americans who bought the original LPs. These are their memories, their Great American Songbook, Broadway, Nelson Riddle concept albums, George & Ira Gershwin, Burt Bacharach. Yet, none of these points register with MCA-UK. Even the two songs mentioned in this thread, The Lonely Bull and La Paloma, eventually showed up on a UK/Jones compilation album in the early-70s. Here in the US, these two songs exist only on an old 45.

One of the frustrating things I've often asked, in looking for information on the Jones Kapp years is, "Where have Jack's original fans gone?" I can never find them online, and there are questions I'd like to ask them. I'm interested in knowing the timeline for the Lonely Bull/La Paloma 45. These songs never made it onto an original Jones album, so what were they recorded for? Considering that they're independent of Jack's other work, it's no surprise that speculation continues as to whether or not Herb was involved. Jones has a Web site, but its forum is dominated by his obsessed UK concert fans. Whenever Americans drop in and try to discuss his recordings, the British fans change the subject, and make sure to rub it in the faces of US folks about how many Jack Jones concerts they've attended over the decades (yes, what "great" fans they are!). As for Jack's original US record-buyers, I have to assume that they've simply given up, after 40+ years, on ever getting their LPs officially reissued, and they just don't think about it anymore. What a shame, as there's SO much history in the Jones Kapp years. How did Dave Kapp do it, churning out almost 20 albums for his franchise singer in only 7-8 years, and during the British Invasion? Even more astounding is the high QUALITY of all these LPs. There's a great AMERICAN story buried in the archives of MCA/Universal, and if it can't be released musically, it should at least be told.

Thankfullly, Jack's Kapp years are getting much exposure on YouTube now, and even winning new fans. Hopefully, this'll get MCA to finally see the light. But if that takes too long, maybe I can go through Jack's management company in the meantime, and see if they can squeeze some answers from JJ about that curious old 45.

 

[Harry]

I'm not exactly a huge Jack Jones fan, but in addition to the 45 mentioned in this thread, I also have in my collection a couple of his LPs - two Kapp greatest hits collections (GREATEST HITS, and THE BEST OF JACK JONES 2-record set).

Those serve for my purposes of hearing the hits like "Wives And Lovers", "Lollipops And Roses" and "The Impossible Dream" once in awhile.

But my flat-out favorite Jack Jones song is on another album in my collection, the title track of L.A.BREAKDOWN on RCA Victor. It was arranged and conducted by Pat Williams, and I just love Jack's reading of the song.

I gather that this RCA album came after the Kapp period. There's no date on it anywhere - it's an orange-label RCA.

Harry

 

[lorelei]

L.A. Breakdown was released in the late-60s, and Jack was still keeping somewhat within the Kapp mold. Gradually, he kept on recording more and more contemporary music, and by the mid-70s, he didn't even sound like Jack Jones anymore. His singing style became more modern, and he started to sing more from the upper throat. Being more of a traditional pop fan, I don't own most of his LPs from the 70s and 80s, but have a couple of his 90s CDs, when he decided to go back to the classics. His RCA records are especially loved by his European fans and by baby boomers who prefer listening to the music of their own era. Jack reportedly owns the rights to his RCA years, but has only been able to get a few released as expensive Japanese imports. Needless to say, his career crossed through several musical/social eras, so the tastes and demographics of his fans are quite diverse.

 

[Mr Bill]

... my flat-out favorite Jack Jones song is on another album in my collection, the title track of L. A. BREAKDOWN on RCA Victor.

Is this song the same "L. A. Breakdown" written by A&M producer/arranger Larry Marks? He also recorded it himself and A&M released it asa single. It's among my favorite A&M singles by artists who never released and A&M LP...

--Mr Bill

 

[Harry]

^I believe so.

Harry

 

[Mike]

I have the obligatory “Wives & Lovers” two-fer and enjoy it. Sometimes when an attractive mature woman comes into my office I’ll discreetly play it on my stereo and it almost never fails to get their attention (in a good way). I’ve seen ‘em swoon to Jack’s vocals.

I think there are a lot of people who read this forum without ever posting. And, right about now there’s probably an order processor at Amazon.com wondering why there’s so many orders coming in for the MCA UK two-fers. Yep, such is the power and influence of the A&M Corner.

Regards,
Mike

 

[lorelei]

... and right now, Gloria Steinem is probably tearing her hair out, cussing about "that forum" that's encouraging sales of that sexist Wives and Lovers (it's true that she loathes the song - and Jack for continuing to sing it). But when you actually hear the song within the context of its original album, you're more likely to focus on how smoothly Jones' vocals breeze through the lyrics, rather than on the lyrics themselves. And directly after Wives and Lovers comes one of Jones' most tender and vulnerable sad songs of lost/longed-for love, Toys in the Attic. This song exemplified one quality Jones had that Sinatra and other male vocalists didn't: when Jack is singing of deep loss and depression, he makes every woman listener want to jump in and save him.

While it's great that we have these six Jones albums made directly from the masters, I do wish that they would have been issued in the U.S., for greater exposure. For some reason, record stores in most states (such as mine) do not order such imports. And there are many two-fers - for of a wide variety of artists - that are manufactured in Europe, which means that I never see them on store shelves. The Jones-Riddle collaboration, in particular, should be regarded as an important historical recording - another Nelson Riddle concept album. Riddle charted some truly gorgeous and creative arrangements for it, without being intrusive. The whole concept had to sound dreamlike, so it was the perfect flow, beauty and emotional expression in Jack's voice that had to carry this fantasy and make it work. Sadly, I don't believe that most Riddle fans are even aware of this album; I've never noticed the title included or discussed in sites I've visited. Oh well, through enough word of mouth, hopefully history will someday catch up with this very-neglected era in pop music.

 

[Dave]

...L.A. Breakdown was released in the late-60s, and Jack was still keeping somewhat within the Kapp mold...

I think I recently, actually saw a copy of that album... A brand-new still-sealed one I was sure tempted to open and wish I bought...

I wonder if it's any different from the version Jack done on his 1977 The Full Life??? He does a version of it there, too...

Jones also recorded the "new version" at a very slow, ballad-like tempo, so I wonder if the first version is, too?

Jimmie Rodgers also did a version of it--also a very slow one--, as well It's the last track on his 2nd LP, The Windmills Of Your Mind, which the song's author, Larry Marks also produced... Marks also produced Jimmie's first album, Child Of Clay and was responsible for producing albums for other A&M artists like The Sandpipers and Phil Ochs...

Helen Reddy also recorded a version of "L.A. Breakdown" and a very fast version, much like the single Larry Marks did (On A&M...!)... (Larry also produced Helen's album that it's on, too...)

Yeah, I wish Marks recorded an an entire ALBUM, too...



Dave

 

[Rudy]

... and right now, Gloria Steinem is probably tearing her hair out, cussing about "that forum" that's encouraging sales of that sexist Wives and Lovers (it's true that she loathes the song - and Jack for continuing to sing it). But when you actually hear the song within the context of its original album, you're more likely to focus on how smoothly Jones' vocals breeze through the lyrics, rather than on the lyrics themselves. And directly after Wives and Lovers comes one of Jones' most tender and vulnerable sad songs of lost/longed-for love, Toys in the Attic.

That's one of only two Jack Jones LPs I own (for now). That album is buttery smooth, in a good way! I got it over at the Salvation Army in Wayne (on Michigan Ave.) for $1, practically stone mint, looking unplayed, and still in the original cellophane. I'd heard his "Wives and Lovers" on the Bacharach box set, so for a buck, I couldn't go wrong. I have quite a few favorites on that album. One of these days I'll get the two-fer CD...

 

[rickster]

Jones is a great singer -- His BEST album, in my opinion, was a Live in Las Vegas thing he did for RCA in the early 70's. GREAT set. Black and White cover, as I remember. And that was the set where he famously screwed up the lyrics for "Everything Is Beautiful" and they left the track in and it sounded great. Used to hear that track on the radio all the time in those days. (WNEW - AM in New York)

 

[lorelei]

That must be the album Live at the Sands, from 1970. Surprisingly it got issued on CD for a brief period. I bought a copy of the CD, but only listened to it a few times. Being a Generation Joneser (a bit younger than the Woodstock generation), I was a bit taken aback by the subtle psychedelic touches in the arrangements and the concert's socially-focused song selection - a clear snapshot of the times. I'll have to pay attention to the Everything is Beautiful lyrics the next time I play it.

It's interesting to read all these comments about the 70s. I don't remember hearing Jones on the radio back then - it seemed like the only styles one could choose from on Detroit radio were Top 40 or Classic Rock, plus a year or two of disco. I still have to get around to buying a copy of Jones' L.A. Breakdown LP, especially knowing how popular it's long been among fans. Once I look further into the 70s, though, I always debate as to whether or not I want to listen to more of Jones' "new" voice, or if that'll ultimately prove disappointing for me. Artistically, I've always been fondest of his Kapp years because his original, young voice displayed probably the greatest range ever heard in pop. He also took everything he learned about perfect phrasing from Sinatra, and added warmth, charm, sophistication and humility that were often absent from Frank's interpretations, at least when it came to balladry. But, I know that Jones' interpretive skills are still present on his later LPs, so it's all a matter of my giving the 70s another chance. :|

 

[Dave]

I saw Jack in his performance of MAN FROM LA MANCHA and of course he sung "The Impossible Dream", too...

I met him afterwards, getting a couple of those '70's albums (what I told him were his "Rock 'N' Roll albums") signed, The Full Life and Harbor... A nice guy who was a pleasure to meet...



Dave

 

[Harry]

UPDATE:

I've uploaded the Jack Jones record to YouTube:



Harry

 

[DAN BOLTON]

Check out who directed the orchestra...

Dan

 

[A&Mguyfromwayback]

Well, I guess that answers the question about who the trumpet player is.....that is downright wacky. Cool in a really twisted sort of way...what year did that come out?

 

[Harry]

There's no date on the record, and I have no frame of reference to even hazard a guess - other than to say that Herb's version was a hit in 62. It was common to cover others' hits back then, so if I had to guess I'd say either '62 or '63.

Harry

 

[Steve Sidoruk]

If the single was pressed by Monarch, then you can check the matrix number and get the month/year of the release. Look here: http://www.45rpmrecords.com/date_monarch.php

 

[Harry]

It doesn't appear to be a Monarch pressing. Deadwax only has "K6744" and what looks like a script "p".

On the other Jack Jones record discussed in this thread, "L.A. Break Down", while I like the A&M/Larry Marks version (see the Rare A&M Singles thread), I really love Jack's take on the song with Pat Williams' arrangement:



Harry