Tonni Kalash played on the TJB albums

[martin]

Author of the "From Brass To Gold" book Leslie Pfenninger, has gained access to information on the studio sessions at Gold Star Recording Studio that produced many of the essential A & M Recordings. They are complete with dates and exact info on the personnel involved. She has kindly shared some of this information, and it is enlightening and very interesting reading for die-hard fans like us. The players on the studio session recording "A Walk In The Black Forest", "Walk Don't Run" and "I'm Getting Sentimental Over You" that took place on August 6th 1965 were e.g.: Herb Alpert - trumpet, Nick Ceroli - drums, Ervan Coleman - guitar,mandolin, Bob Edmonson - trombone, Tonni Kalash - trumpet, Lou Pagani - piano, John Pisano - guitar, Lyle Ritz - ukelele, bass, tuba, violin, Pat Senatore - bass and Julius Wechter - marimba

It is interesting to see that Tonni Kalash indeed played in the studio, he is also listed on many of the other TJB sessions. Other interesting notes are that Pete Jolly played on most of the BMB sessions and that the first "regular" TJB member to appear on a recording session was Bob Edmonson on January 21st 1965 recording songs for the Whipped Cream album.

- greetings from the north -
Martin

 

[whippedflea]

For the sake of getting the recordings finished quicker, it would make all the sense in the world for Kalash to have been at the sessions. Besides, Alpert used (and credited) that hotshot Findley on the CONEY ISLAND album.

 

[Captain Bacardi]

This sounds like one of those deals where Herb used a trumpeter for the original recording while he was in the booth and then went back and redid the trumpet part himself for the record. No big deal. Ollie Mitchell supposedly was used for the same thing.


Capt. Bacardi

 

[Numero Cinco]

Ukelele, tuba, violin, mandolin —

"A Walk in the Black Forest"; "Walk, Don't Run"; "(I'm) Getting Sentimental Over You."

I don't hear any of these in any of those. Where am I going wrong?

 

[martin]

Well, it is not uncommon for a producer to have more instruments on the takes than what you actually use in the final mix. The variations that we know of with the TJB mixes are good examples. (Brasilia with or without the trombone part and so on..)

- greetings from the north -
Martin

 

[Tom]

Martin,

Thanks for the goldmine of info on Tonni Kalash and the TjB recording sessions. When I went to the website, I was so excited to see the info on the dates, studios, and personnel used. It was nice to finally see Tonni Kalash and Lou Pagani's names listed in the recording sessions. Having heard Tonni in concert as a member of the TJB, I knew he had extraordinary talents on the trumpet. This is probably incorrect info but years ago, I heard or read something which indicated Tonni Kalash did the high notes trumpet part on the song "Casino Royale". Can someone set me straight on this point. I know Herb has said there are some things he has difficulty with or can't do on trumpet and continues to learn. As Clint Eastwood said..."a man's got to know his limitations".

tom

 

[whippedflea]

About the extra instruments eventually deleted...

Listen to almost all of the WHAT NOW MY LOVE album on a good stereo, particularly an old vinyl. There's kind of a bass-line guide cello part on nearly all of the songs, most audible on the intro to "What Now My Love" and especially "Memories Of Madrid." On "Memories..." listen after the first measure of John Pisano's guitar intro and you'll hear the cello kick in almost immediately on the left channel.

 

[DAN BOLTON]

About the extra instruments eventually deleted...

Listen to almost all of the WHAT NOW MY LOVE album on a good stereo, particularly an old vinyl. There's kind of a bass-line guide cello part on nearly all of the songs, most audible on the intro to "What Now My Love" and especially "Memories Of Madrid." On "Memories..." listen after the first measure of John Pisano's guitar intro and you'll hear the cello kick in almost immediately on the left channel.

It's on TIJUANA TAXI, too...

Dan

 

[Rudy]

This is probably incorrect info but years ago, I heard or read something which indicated Tonni Kalash did the high notes trumpet part on the song "Casino Royale". Can someone set me straight on this point.

This song is a Bacharach recording where Herb overdubbed only his trumpet and some maracas. The rest of the instrumental track was recorded in England. I've got this from a couple of different sources.

I still don't buy it that Tonni played on TJB studio recordings, unless it was in a background part. It's evident from listening that Herb double-tracked his own trumpet parts...nobody can blend two parts like that. The most accurate source of information for musicians playing on gigs is from the musician's union, and those are not of public record.

 

[Harry]

This song is a Bacharach recording where Herb overdubbed only his trumpet and some maracas. The rest of the instrumental track was recorded in England.

Julius' marimba was also added to the track. IMHO, it's that marimba track that underscores the TjB "sound", in addition to Herb's trumpet parts.

Harry

 

[Numero Cinco]

About the extra instruments eventually deleted...

Listen to almost all of the WHAT NOW MY LOVE album on a good stereo, particularly an old vinyl. There's kind of a bass-line guide cello part on nearly all of the songs, most audible on the intro to "What Now My Love" and especially "Memories Of Madrid." On "Memories..." listen after the first measure of John Pisano's guitar intro and you'll hear the cello kick in almost immediately on the left channel.

Of course (slapping my temple a la "I coulda had a V-8"). It stands to reason that musicians were hired to lay down tracks discarded in the final mix. For !!GP!! the strings are especially noticeable in "And the Angels Sing" and "Mae."

Thanks, too, for reminding me about that missing bass note in the reissue's intro to "Memories of Madrid." I always loved that—another reason, besides Bob's "Brasilia" 'bone, for me to hang tightly onto my LP.

 

[Captaindave]

Martin,

Thanks for the goldmine of info on Tonni Kalash and the TjB recording sessions. When I went to the website, I was so excited to see the info on the dates, studios, and personnel used. It was nice to finally see Tonni Kalash and Lou Pagani's names listed in the recording sessions. Having heard Tonni in concert as a member of the TJB, I knew he had extraordinary talents on the trumpet. This is probably incorrect info but years ago, I heard or read something which indicated Tonni Kalash did the high notes trumpet part on the song "Casino Royale". Can someone set me straight on this point. I know Herb has said there are some things he has difficulty with or can't do on trumpet and continues to learn. As Clint Eastwood said..."a man's got to know his limitations".

tom

Hearsay now, but I have heard that the extreme high register was played by Bud Brisbois, a studio player from those days and high range specialist, now deceased I am pretty sure.

I also heard Tonni Kalash in concert with the TJB, and seem to remember that he was the "stronger" player of the two. By that, I mean that I think he had a higher level of "chops." Herb no doubt hired these guys because he knew they could play at a high level of skill, and could have probably hired anyone.

When someone in the big leagues like Herb Alpert put a band together, it would only stand to reason that he would assemble the best players available. They were very well paid, according to the information I have heard. He was the front man, so to speak, for a highly skilled group of powerhouse players who could play anything.

And as mentioned somewhere above, Bob Findley is definitely a "hotshot." One of the top players in the business; among the best in the world. There probably isn't anything he can't do with a trumpet. There are some guys who are so good it's kind of "scary."

 

[whippedflea]

Overall, I think Tonni was probably on "some" of the recordings, but certainly not "all" or even "most." On YOU SMILE... and CONEY ISLAND, even though Findley was in the "band" you can tell he's not on most of YOU SMILE...

 

[Mike Blakesley]

I still don't buy it that Tonni played on TJB studio recordings, unless it was in a background part.

I don't even think he played then. If you remember the liner notes from DEFINITIVE HITS, it says that Herb plays ALL trumpets, except the ones in the orchestra on "Casino Royale."

Of course it's possible that Kalash played on the "album tracks" and not the hits, but that doesn't make much sense, so my vote is still in the "he only played onstage" column.

 

[martin]

I don't agree. I think it's more likely that Tonni Kalash played his 2nd trumpet part on some of the recordings, than that he did not. In fact, I just listened to the live recording from the last TJB tour from the concert in London's Royal Festival Hall in December 1969, and it is remarkable how well Tonni's trumpet playing blends with Herb's. But according to the "sessionography" he did not appear on any recordings prior to "Going Places".

- greetings from the north -
Martin

 

[Captain Bacardi]

That 1969 concert was almost all Tonni since Herb could barely play at the time. No, I don't hear Tonni on the records at all.


Capt. Bacardi

 

[martin]

Yes, I know that's the rumour, but it doesn't sound like that at all when you listen to the recordings. Herb delivers some quite good solos on Got A Lot Of Livin' To Do and other stuff and the duet playing sounds good most of the time, even if he does sound a bit "rusty" at times.

- greetings from the north -
Martin

 

[Captaindave]

Having listened to these recordings for all these years, I tend to agree with the idea that Herb probably played all of it. Why not? That is further confirmed in the Pat Senatore interviews on the old Wendell Johnson website.

That whole idea was somewhat hard for me to accept back when I thought that the band pictured on the album covers were the exact same players on the recordings. After all, I looked at the Tijuana Brass as a permanent "group" that played together on everything; both recordings and concert. but, as I have come to understand the details of these things better, I can see that may very well not have been the case.

The tonal and stylistic blend of the instruments is almost too perfect to allow for different players. That further allows for complete control of the recording by the artist himself.

It makes sense to me that Herb could do the studio recordings himself, and hire the band to play the concerts. There is no conflict in that kind of situation.

At the same time, I definitely notice that the album sound beginning with GOING PLACES and the concert sound begin to be more identical, and that coincides with the establishement of the specific group...interesting...

 

[Mike Blakesley]

the album sound beginning with GOING PLACES and the concert sound begin to be more identical

That was probably because since the band was now playing concerts, Herb started writing more arrangements that could be played onstage without a lot of extra instrumentation.

Between the Senatore comment, and the liner notes on DEF HITS that said Herb plays all trumpets, I'm convinced that he did indeed play them all.

 

[martin]

From what one can hear on the recordings and also from the information provided from several different sources, there is no doubt that Herb double tracked his own trumpet on the TJB recordings. Indeed, according to history, the basis for the whole TJB sound was his experiments with double tracking the trumpet on his tape recorder. Yet, as the sound developed and the band was put together, there is a loose and improvisational approach to many of the songs, and you often hear more than two trumpet tracks, evident on the jazzier songs on e.g. the S.R.O. album. Also, it appears that the musicians, both horn players and the rhythm section were in the studio at the same time, recording the tracks "live" in the studio. Of course what happened after wards, what was kept and what was added is hard to tell, but after having listened to (bootleg) live recordings with the Tijuana Brass, there are several songs on the TJB albums where I believe it is likely that Tonni Kalash is playing one or more of the trumpet parts. Having produced a large number of albums myself I don't really know how interesting this discussion is. What's really important of course, is the result and that what comes out in the end is as close to the artistic ideas as possible.

- greetings from the north -
Martin

 

[Captaindave]

From what one can hear on the recordings and also from the information provided from several different sources, there is no doubt that Herb double tracked his own trumpet on the TJB recordings. Indeed, according to history, the basis for the whole TJB sound was his experiments with double tracking the trumpet on his tape recorder. Yet, as the sound developed and the band was put together, there is a loose and improvisational approach to many of the songs, and you often hear more than two trumpet tracks, evident on the jazzier songs on e.g. the S.R.O. album. Also, it appears that the musicians, both horn players and the rhythm section were in the studio at the same time, recording the tracks "live" in the studio. Of course what happened after wards, what was kept and what was added is hard to tell, but after having listened to (bootleg) live recordings with the Tijuana Brass, there are several songs on the TJB albums where I believe it is likely that Tonni Kalash is playing one or more of the trumpet parts. Having produced a large number of albums myself I don't really know how interesting this discussion is. What's really important of course, is the result and that what comes out in the end is as close to the artistic ideas as possible.

- greetings from the north -
Martin

Or, any other trumpet player who might have been available at the time...From my point of view, discussions like this are very interesting...

I'm interested in what happened on the recordings, and what the truth about the artist really is/was. I grew up thinking certain things, and am very willing to revise those preconceptions if new information is, in fact, brought to light.

Details always interest me...

 

[martin]

If you seriously went in and found out "exactly" what had happened in the studio with a number of artists and groups, you would probably be in for a few surprises, especially today went the technology gives almost unlimited possibilities...

- greetings from the north -
Martin

 

[DAN BOLTON]

My guess is that Tonni probably DID play in the studio, but probably not on the final mixes...we weree discussing Ollie Mitchell's role in TJB recordings not too long ago; and probably the same situation occurred with Tonni...he played to give the arrangements the sound and "feel" of the finished product, and Herb redid the 2nd part later for the final mix.

Of course, if it really sounded good...Herb probably let the tracks stay in the mix...why not? There are several instances where it would make a lot of sense to have two trumpets in the studio; one that immediately comes to mind is AND THE ANGELS SING, because there are a couple of instances where there are two distinct trumpet parts...and there would be an awkward silence if Herb just played one line. It would be difficult for the other musicians to play off that one line.

Also, having Tonni in the studio would give Herb a chance to hear just exactly how his harmonies would sound before he had to make a decision on what particular interval sounded best, where.

And, let's not forget just how busy Herb was...both trumpets in the studio could be a real timesaver, not to mention a fatigue factor.

Dan

 

[venturaguy49]

My take is that the T.J.B. became such an itinerate band, that it hardly mattered who did the studio works, as much of the basic 'sound' was established on stage. This was true of other bands that played regularly to audiences. Not only that, but as Dan has astutely observed, it was to the group's(and especially Herb's) benefit to develop live grooves that were complete, or at least enoughs so that the band could hear reasonably what the finished product would be like in the studio, but I'd imagine that arrangements used on the albums were based opon stage performances, hence the similarity between both from '65 on. And from a level of personal satisfaction, having regulars that would pitch in consistently would just have to be more gratifying than putting together pickup bands. Sure, it's likely that Tonni •didn't• play on the master tape, but in the studio, as on the road, the ablity to hear a 'complete band' was a plus.
From there, overdubbings could be done, but trying new charts or head arrangements en toto, if only to create demos, was indespensable.
Not only that, but on productions such as "Whipped Cream & O.D.s", there were some five trumpet parts(3-part harmony plus over dubbing of first two parts(if not all), so folk were used to overdubbed trumpet(trombone as well) to gain a fuller sound, so Tonni •could• have provided the basic track, and Herb simply furnished the overdub. Whatever, the T.J.B.'s sound was(in my opinion, the best instrumental combo around, and for good reason. Lots of work went into making those albums. There was somethng about it that, to me, was special.

Asl for the competency of the players, as many were seasoned jazzers
with big bands(Ceroli and Senatore with the Stan Kenton Band), it only
stands to reason that they wouldn't feel as comfortable with a pianist that wasn't up to par with their regular boss, and a guitarist such as John Pisano had to blend with the piano, so having anyone that couldn't comp well would be a liabiliby, and thanks to my good friend Doug Light, I've had the opportunity to hear recordings by the Johnny Catron Big Band in which Lou Pagani was featured. Trust me on this: Lou, when with Catron, played
all over the place. The guy was a particularly fluid pianist that could related to the band well, play cool jazzy line, and never overwhelm the outfit.
He simply understood what everone was playing, and noodled the best single-note piano I've ever heard, and in a band such as Tijuana Brass, Lou's comping skills were essential. No, one didn't hear him distinctly all
that much, but within the sound of that famous rhythm section was a pianist that knew how to lay down the right foundation for their recordings.
Again, one must hear him in a big band setting to fully appreciate just how accmplished he was. Not techie, but accomplished in a way that enable him to play consistently...gotta know the chords, the accents, and what's more, the blend of sections, and when solos are to appear, and then co-ordinated it all together, and from the early 50s on, Lou Pagani was the ideal pianist for the job. I've more to say, but have other things to do, and besides which, I've made points enough. It's just not right to hog the opinions, and for that reason I'll sign off, and swig some some of that atomic salsa
Let's just hope that this message is as well-done as it seemed when doing it.
I'm in a hurry, and haven't time to proof it much(normally, I go for a preview or two), and rush off as there's no save draft available.It's put it out warts and all, or risk the comp crashing( or AOL's line corrupting, which happens, and required re-booting the comp, so 'scuze my slop, but I've gotta split for
now.

Warm Wishes,
the one and only Hookahhead

 

[Tom]

You all have great ears, and wonderful appreciation of great artistry and music. I have always believed, and even moreso now, that each of the members of the original TjB were extraordinary artists in their own right including Herb. To bring all of that awesome talent together is what we all have come to know and love as The Tijuana Brass! Thanks Herb and to all of the guys for giving us this timeless music which holds up and is as fresh and fun today as it was in the 60's.

Tom