What broke up the original Tijuana Brass?

[alpertfan]

Groups break up for a variety of reasons, personal and business wise. However, it has never been made clear, I don't think, why the original Tijuana Brass of the ninteen-sixties parted ways in 1971 after the release of the SUMMERTIME album. Two of the surviving members have vaguely hinted as to why. In the 1979 interview posted on this website, Herb Alpert seems to have said that it was all due to boredom after a while-rushing to gigs, television studios, booking hotel rooms, etc. Bassist Pat Senatore did an interview in 1999 for The Herb Alpert & The Tijuana Brass Fan Club Website, in which he stated: "In the beginning, it was like one big, happy family, then it started to be become just another gig, instead of a big party". I guess we'll never know why until a definitive biography comes out, from reading about the group's history, I know it was never the same after that. The Reorganized TJB did not gel for most people and the group was never to achieve the popularity it once had until 1984 when four original members (John Pisano, Bob Edmondson, Nick Ceroli, and Julius Wechter) accompanied Alpert on his BULLISH tour, even though I've heard that it was only a small tour.

What are your thoughts on this?

 

[DAN BOLTON]

Acts come and go, tastes change, the mood of the buying public changes...even the buying public changes. Try living out of a suitcase for months on end year after year, and sooner or later, you'll want to crawl into it and hide...I believe it was a combination of all these things.

At the end of the '60's, the music scene had begun to change...there were a lot of songs in the earlier part of the decade that weren't being written in the latter part of it...and there weren't as many tunes that fit the TJB style to record. Pop culture kept getting younger and younger, and the music wasn't nearly as "exotic" as it had been earlier. There was a big latin "explosion" in the early to mid '60's that was rapidly beginning to die out by the early '70's...as witnessed by Sergio Mendes/Brasil66 becoming much more pop-oriented rather than Brazilian. The change seemed abrupt, but I don't think it really was...the TJB had been moving away from a mariachi sound since the late '60's...and their albums weren't selling as well as they had earlier...people were getting tired of the latin sound. The gold mine was rapidly being played out...


The revised TJB didn't set the world on fire,either...even after several years absence...the culture had changed. Too bad...but true...we diehards may complain, but it just isn't the same anymore...the world is much less exotic than it was[now it's a mess...], and "international music" just isn't the big deal it used to be...


Dan

 

[LPJim]

This is an interesting subject, and I recall meeting a woman who was digging through used LPs beside me at Lost & Found Records a few years ago. She was one of those loud, tourist, know-it-all types, which should cause anyone to consider the source.
While inspecting used TJB album she said, "What a shame that group broke up. They had everything going for them until they got involved with drugs."
Observing she was considerably older than I was, I just nodded my head and didn't argue with her.
But it did make me wonder.
JB
PS: Today's music isn't just unsophisticated. Much of it is downright lame.

 

[Captain Bacardi]

Groups break up for a variety of reasons, personal and business wise. However, it has never been made clear, I don't think, why the original Tijuana Brass of the ninteen-sixties parted ways in 1971 after the release of the SUMMERTIME album.

First of all, Herb disbanded the TJB at the end of 1969, after The Brass Are Comin'. According to Herb, he felt he was just repeating himself musicwise, not to mention that his marriage fell apart. He wasn't happy, and he had difficulty playing the horn. As far as Summertime goes, there's some debate on this. It may have had the TJB name, but it's unlikely that the Brass as we know it played on every tune, with maybe the exception of Julius Wechter, Bob Edmondson and maybe John Pisano. (I wish John would stop by sometime to give us some info on this.)


Capt. Bacardi

 

[music]

I TOO WAS SURPRISED AND SHOCKED TO LEARN ONE MORNING BACK IN 1969 TO FIND OUT THE T.J.B. HAD BROKEN UP.I READ IT IN THE SUNDAY NEWSPAPER AND FELT A SENSE OF LOSS AND DISMAY.I MADE APROMISE TO BUY ANY HERB /T.J.B/A&M MATERIALTHAT I COULD.I WAS HAPPY WHEN HERB REUNITED THE BRASS IN 1974 FOR 2 ALBUMS,AND WAS FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO HAVE SEEN THEM AT JONES BEACH IN 84 AND FONT ROW SEATS AS WELL,NOT KNOWING AT THE TIME THAT NICK CEROLI WOLD BE GONE THE FOLLOWING YEAR AND JULIUS WOOLD PASS AWAY MANY YEARS LATER. REST IN PACE AND PLAY ON .

 

[Clark]

This is a good question and one that I have given a lot of thought to for the last couple of weeks. It is hard to imagine that in mid-1968, the Brass were riding so high and a year later they are disbanded. Here are the reasons I think Herb called it quits:

1. Herb's personal problems - 1969 was the year his first marriage ended. If you have ever gone through this, it can be a bummer. I don't know what the cause was, but I am sure it cost him big time. If you think that he was a record executive, a talent scout, and trying to do two careers, one as a band leader and one as a singer, I am surprised he didn't burn out earlier. Add a divorce and I could see why he would want to call it quits.

2. Increased polarization of poplular music - when the Brass first started gaining popularity, many commented that they appealed to both young and old audiences. By the late 60's, the gap between the two widened and it became more difficult to bridge.

3. The sound of the Brass changed. Listen to Brasilla or several other tracts from albums 3-7 and then listen to the tracks on the later albums. Something is different - less latin, less happy. I know nothing technical about music, but the way in which Herb played the horn changed, starting with SRO, a change which increased with every album after that. It was more choppy, less smooth and less dominating than on the previous offerings. Herb has proven in his career that he likes to move on to new sounds. When you are able to evolve a new sound like the Beatles did with Sgt Pepper and it remains popular, great. If you evolve into a sound that is less well received, as the Brass did, well then you end your run.

I think all three of the above contributed to the end of the TJB. It is hard to believe that a group putting on a television special in early 1969 that had Lorne Greene, Johnny Carson and others doing cameos was defunct a few short months later. That is why I think Herb's personal frustration was the biggest reason.

Sorry to be so long winded. I wish the TJB and Mr. Alpert had continued on for many years in the style of 1965-1967. It just proves the saying that all good things have to come to an end.

 

[W.B.]

There was a big latin "explosion" in the early to mid '60's that was rapidly beginning to die out by the early '70's...as witnessed by Sergio Mendes/Brasil66 becoming much more pop-oriented rather than Brazilian. The change seemed abrupt, but I don't think it really was...the TJB had been moving away from a mariachi sound since the late '60's...and their albums weren't selling as well as they had earlier...people were getting tired of the latin sound. The gold mine was rapidly being played out...

Meanwhile, in terms of Latin music, it appeared the pendulum was shifting towards the likes of Santana who, in the year the TJB split, had begun to set the world on fire with his début album (which yielded the smash "Evil Ways") and his appearance at Woodstock (where his performance of "Soul Sacrifice" was one of the highlights of the film thereof). Quite a difference from the musical style as exemplified by the TJB/B'66 axis . . . but, it seems, only underscoring this "increasing polarization of popular music" described by Clark. And then, a few years after that, Malo had their big "one hit" with "Suavecito."

And speaking of Woodstock . . . it had an A&M connection in the form of Joe Cocker -- but that's for another thread . . .

 

[Steven J. Gross]

It seems like when Herb and Lani got together, JUST LIKE John and Yoko, that is exactly when it came apart!

 

[Captain Bacardi]

It seems like when Herb and Lani got together, JUST LIKE John and Yoko, that is exactly when it came apart!

No no no. Herb had problems before Lani came around. If anything, she helped him out of his funk. Don't forget there was the rumored fling with Claudine Longet, although I won't believe it until one of them actually says so (or if Andy Williams says so ).


Capt. Bacardi
NP: Herb & TJB - Closet Jazz

 

[Steven J. Gross]

If Herb did trade in the TJB for Lani Hall, I think he came out way ahead!

 

[Captaindave]

I also remember hearing a rumor(a rumor, mind you ) back in 1968 about the Herb Alpert/Claudine Longet issue. At the time, I was in high school and I don't recall any further "proof" about it. Purely gossip, as far as I could tell at the time. I do not believe that issue, true or otherwise, had much, if any, impact on the demise of the TJB. I can understand the possibility of personal "burnout" on behalf of Herb, and perhaps the rest of the group, as a factor in calling it quits. I think that if TJB tunes had still been on top of the pop music charts at the end of the sixties the way they were earlier in the decade, the TJB might have gone on for a while longer.....

I think the TJB ended because the sound and style had lost much of its popularity and appeal with the general public by about 1969. If my memory serves me correctly, instrumental music was not very popular anymore by the end of the sixties as compared to earlier in the decade(yet I remember that some cool songs like Grazin In The Grass, Soulful Strut, Love Is Blue, Soul Coaxin', etc. were popular about 1968 - gee, I wish I could hear songs like those today ) Most of the music that burst on the scene from about 1962 - beginning with Herb Alpert, Beach Boys, etc. - to 1964 - Beatles and British sound - had run out of steam so to speak, by 1969/1970 or so. Many people who were listening to music with trumpets had moved on to things like Blood, Sweat, and Tears, Chicago, etc. by the late sixties/early seventies.

I also think that the original, "defining," TJB sound had changed quite a bit over the decade of the sixties. Tunes like Spanish Flea, Tijuana Taxi, A Taste of Honey, Zorba the Greek, Whipped Cream, Lonely Bull, Mexican Shuffle, etc. - "defining" tunes having great mass popularity and recognition were no longer the TJB sound by 1969 - or being recorded and getting radio and TV airplay(I can even remember high school bands playing arrangements of these earlier, well-known tunes - you can tell a song is really popular when high school bands are playing arrangements of it ). Other than This Guy's In Love With You(a song recognized as a vocal, not instrumental), I would guess that no later TJB songs and albums received the same kind of huge mass recognition and appeal that many of those earlier songs did. The sound and style had "run it's course."

The TJB was, IMO, pop music from the beginning. It was something new, interesting, and original, and I still enjoy listening to it today as much as 35 years ago. But it is pop music nonetheless, and tastes and audiences in pop music are very fickle.

I am a dedicated Herb Alpert/TJB fan and have been since about 1965, and I always will be a dedicated fan. (I will say that I am primarily a fan of the original TJB - I never really got very interested in the later group). But I don't think that is the case with the general public. Many who may have been listeners and record buyers of the TJB back in the sixties had long gone on to other things and interests, even by the end of the sixties/early seventies.

The TJB disbanded, IMO, because all things in pop music tend to come and go with time and change. They had "run their course" in the arena of pop music.

Maybe the Rolling Stones are an exception????

I did not see at the time, for similar reasons posted above, that any attempts to "resurrect" the TJB in the 1970s - 1980s were going to meet with any noticeable success, and history shows that they did not.

 

[Harry]

The sound of the Brass changed. Listen to Brasilla or several other tracts from albums 3-7 and then listen to the tracks on the later albums. Something is different - less latin, less happy. I know nothing technical about music, but the way in which Herb played the horn changed, starting with SRO, a change which increased with every album after that. It was more choppy, less smooth and less dominating than on the previous offerings. Herb has proven in his career that he likes to move on to new sounds.

I tend to think of the TJB albums in sets of two.

LONELY BULL and VOLUME 2 - both are heavy into the Mexican/mariachi theme. The song "The Lonely Bull" is the only real hit out of these two, and the attempt seems to be made to 'catch lightning twice.'

SOUTH OF THE BORDER and WHIPPED CREAM - with the nationally recognized tune "The Mexican Shuffle" from the Clark's Teaberry Gum commercials, the Tijuana Brass sound is gelling -- even moreso on the WHIPPED CREAM album with it's monster hit "A Taste Of Honey." A touring/live performance group is not yet in place, but is getting there.

GOING PLACES and WHAT NOW MY LOVE - to me, the pinnacle of the Tijuana Brass. No longer just a curiosity in the Mexican vein, the group can now propel songs in directions never intended by their composers, often for the better. The hits are coming fast and furious now, and the touring/performing group is set.

SRO and SOUNDS LIKE - One can't deny the similarities here. Both have blue covers and begin with the letter 'S'. Big hits found here too, but not quite in the abundance of the two prior. The Bacharach influence begins to show, and a sense of familiarity, maybe even repetition, can be found. Musically, the group is still solid, and the sound irresistible.

HERB ALPERT'S NINTH and BEAT OF THE BRASS - wildly colorful sleeves adorn these two, the first having a full-color jacket back, the second featring a colorful gatefold, but the sense of 'nearing the end' can be detected (with 20/20 hindsight). The first of these is called HERB ALPERT'S NINTH, and though the group gets credit, it's unmistakably titled for the 'leader of the band.' That philosophy comes full circle with the release of the monster hit, "This Guy's In Love With You", credited only to Herb on the single. Both albums feature the 'theme song' for popular old-time comedians, "Thanks For The Memory" used by Bob Hope, and "The Love Nest", used by Burns and Allen.

(excluding the CHRISTMAS ALBUM, for obvious reasons)

WARM and THE BRASS ARE COMIN' - Here we begin to hear big changes in the styles. WARM with it's Brazilian focus and BRASS ARE COMIN' with it's western theme. Longtime fans can hear a tiredness in Herb's lead, while his vocal turns try with only middling success to again 'catch lightning twice.'

After that, the albums just weren't the same. SUMMERTIME sounds like a half-hearted (and short) attempt at re-launching the Tijuana Brass sound, with some very audible differences. And a whole new cast of characters came together with the now changed name of the T.J.B., perhaps an effort to distance themselves from the old 'Ameriachi' image from the '60s. (Not unlike Kentucky Fried Chicken changing to KFC to avoid the 'Fried'.)

Some consider BULLISH a Tijuana Brass album. I never did. It just happened to be Herb's solo recording effort at the time of the reunion tour.

Harry
...feeling a bit verbose, online...

 

[Steven J. Gross]

...and: You Smile the Song Begins and Coney Island!

 

[Captaindave]

Harry refers quite correctly to a "tiredness in Herb's lead" on the WARM and BRASS ARE COMIN' albums.

I am a trumpet player myself with formal training and many years of playing experience. My opinion is that I was hearing that "tiredness" starting to appear as early as the SOUNDS LIKE album, and growing more pronounced with the NINTH and BEAT OF THE BRASS albums. I can recall noticing this even back then as the albums were being released - it seemed to me that Herb's sound was changing, because I was listening very closely to him and trying to imitate him in my own playing....

I will acknowledge the somewhat different stylistic natures of these various albums, but my comments here are more focused on the "sound" of the trumpet - not the style of the albums or even the choice of songs. The trumpet sound/tone of the earlier albums is very different. There is a bigger, broader, richer, more full and open tone - the way a trumpet is supposed to sound. More apparent and better breath support of the tone. Clearer and more precise articulation. Much better focus and center of tone. Bottom line, the trumpet playing on these earlier albums - up through and including SRO - sounds like a better all around player is doing the playing. A more energetic, vibrant, and dynamic sound.

The trumpet sound of the later albums, especially beginning with HERB'S NINTH, sounds like a player who is beginning to develop, or has developed embouchure(the technical word for "lip") problems, is having some difficulty in securing a good and full tone, and may need to take a rest from the horn and allow the embouchure to recuperate. The tone is often "fuzzy"and out of focus and the articulation unclear. The sound often lacks the energy and vitality of the earlier recordings. It sounds to me like a different player is now playing the "lead."

It would not seem reasonable to me as a trumpet player that there was any kind of plan to create this sound change- rather it is more likely the result of the gradual and growing "tiredness" that Harry mentions.

Just my opinions on the changes in the sound with time in the sixties. I think that the burnout that I seem to have heard that affected Herb by the late sixties/early seventies can be heard in the final albums in the trumpet itself...

 

[DAN BOLTON]

Could be, could be; or maybe it was an attempt to get a different sound...I never saw[or heard] anything technically wrong with the sound of Herb's trumpet in the later recordings...in fact, I kinda like the sound of the horn on the last few albums a little better than some of the other albums...it's more unique, and hard to copy...I know, I tried, too...and it's DEFINITELY Herb Alpert.


Maybe he was running out of material and ideas, maybe his personal life was in a shambles...but the music was still great, both in sound and content...and the last couple of albums really mark just how Herb was maturing as an artist. I really don't see why anybody would fault TBAC and SUMMERTIME...they don't sound "tired" to me, they really are a lot fresher than they get credit for being. Listen to "I'LL BE BACK" and "THE NICEST THINGS HAPPEN"...and don't forget "SUMMERTIME"...they're very ambitious projects, and very well done. The same goes for "MOON RIVER" and "YOU ARE MY LIFE"...

TBAC and SUMMERTIME are the two albums I'm most looking forward to to be reissued...


Dan

 

[Captaindave]

I'm going to speak as a trained and experienced trumpet player, having been a player for nearly 40 years. My experience includes, but is not limited to being a soloist, brass ensemble, pop and jazz combo, rock band, concert band, and orchestra performer. I had many years of classical and professional instruction all the way through high school, college, and beyond into adulthood. I have been listening to and playing with many trumpet players all my life and I have a good understanding for what constitutes good trumpet performance. I have played with excellent trumpet players who have also been instructors in music and trumpet, so I know what constitutes good performance and what doesn't, purely from the technical viewpoint.

Now with all that said, I do not believe that the trumpet playing on the later Herb Alpert/TJB albums is Herb's best work as a TRUMPET PLAYER. I will say again that I am a dedicated Herb Alpert fan, but I do not believe that he was playing well on those recordings. Mostly, I refer to the albums after SOUNDS LIKE... I do not like the tone quality that I hear on those recordings - it simply isn't as good as earlier recordings. I noticed the difference back then when I bought those recordings when new. I'm even going to go out on a limb here and say that I was disappointed when I first heard WARM - I thought "What happened to Herb's sound???"

The tone quality is my biggest criticism. I think that if you ask most professional trumpet teachers or performers to critique the sound of the trumpet on the later TJB albums, you will get less than favorable reviews. Comments such as "fuzzy, uncentered, unfocused, airy, thin, weak, or closed" will be among the observations - like it or not. If you were taking lessons from a traditional classical instructor, and you said you wanted to imitate the sound of those albums, your teacher would tell you not to do so. Your teacher might even go so far as to say - dare I be so bold - that the trumpet player on those recordings is not a very good player, when judged by conventional standards of acceptable performance for a professional player - I am still talking about commonly accepted standards among professional trumpet players and teachers.

Now, move ahead to the FANDANGO album - now the sound of the earlier albums has returned - a clear, strong, open, full, rich, and centered sound is present. This is what a trumpet is supposed to sound like, and this sound is increasingly absent on the later TJB albums after SOUNDS LIKE... I might also say that good tone is absent from the solo albums where Herb has gone in favor of electronics, rather than natural trumpet tone.

Listen to Arturo Sandoval or Doc Severinsen or Maurice Andre. There are many others. These players have great tone and make the trumpet sound as it should.

Herb Alpert can and DOES have great tone and sound. He is also a great stylist and msuical performer.

But speaking as an experienced trumpet player, his sound on the later TJB albums is lacking clarity, focus, resonance, and centeredness - all necessary ingredients in good trumpet tone.

I will repeat - before any flames get started - that I am a long term and dedicated fan of herb Alpert and the TJB - they have been and remain my favorite musical performers. But I don't like the sound of the trumpet on the later recordings - it is like Herb has said himself - tired and burned out. The "magic" was no longer there.

Remember, I'm talking about trumpet playing here, from the point of view of a trained and experienced player......

Just my opinions....

 

[zorba_the_greek]

Captaindave,

I completely agree with your opinion regarding Herb Alpert's overall trumpet playing in his later albums. I am also a very experienced trumpet player and could tell a very noticeable difference in his trumpet playing between the earlier and later albums. Comparing the two, it was almost like there were two different people playing the lead trumpet part. Like you stated, I too noticed a "tired" trumpet tone of Herb Alpert. This "burned-out" tone is more prominent in the later albums, beginning with Herb Alpert's Ninth. I could tell the "magic" he once had was starting to fade and his tone of the earlier years would never be heard again.

 

[Captain Bacardi]

I will repeat - before any flames get started - that I am a long term and dedicated fan of herb Alpert and the TJB - they have been and remain my favorite musical performers. But I don't like the sound of the trumpet on the later recordings - it is like Herb has said himself - tired and burned out. The "magic" was no longer there.

If you've seen "The Brass Are Comin'" TV special where the TJB plays at the end you can also notice how difficult it was for Herb to play. It's even more noticeable on the live show at the Royal Festival Hall, where he was missing notes right and left. It seemed that Tonni Kalash and Bob Edmondson had to cover for him. That turned out to be one of the final shows of the original TJB.


Capt. Bacardi

 

[Clark]

First of all, let me say that I have really enjoyed this string of notes. It has certainly gotten some discussion going.

It has gone to the center of a question that has really been bothering me - what happened to the Brass? I noticed the change at the time as well, but I think it goes back further than SRO - hints of it are in "What Now My Love" and the "Work Song". There was a choppness to both those songs, as if Herb were trying to articulate individual words or notes, where in previous albums the trumpet in Captaindave's words had "a bigger, broader, richer, more full and open tone" It flowed. The new style continued to evolve and Herb's horn became much less dominant. This was particulary true by the time of the "9th" and "The Beat of The Brass" I don't know if it was due to tiredness or an effort to develop an individual style. I think Bert Bacharach might be to blame. At any rate, I enjoyed the music less with each album
Also, it should be noted that the later albums lacked "zest". Take "Five Minutes More", "Walk Don't Run" and "Brazilia" and find any tracks on the later albums that have the vitality of those songs.
Finally, I think that Herb was trying to broaden his career by 1968-69and be more than a band leader. I think he wanted to go along the same track as Diana Ross, whose career evolved from being a Supreme, to Diana Ross and the Supremes and then Diana Ross. In each of the three original TV specials, the other members of the Brass become less and less visible. The album covers feature more of Herb and less of the others. I think he was spending less time on the Brass and more time on Herb.
For whatever reason, as I purchased suceeding albums after SRO, I found I enjoyed the music less and less until I lost interest. I was not alone.

IMHO, I think if Herb had continued to arrange songs in the style of the middle 60's and continued playing as he did then, the Brass would have been popular for several more years. We don't know why but that did not happen, and the Brass faded from view.

Lets keep this discussion going!

 

[Rudy]

I will repeat - before any flames get started - that I am a long term and dedicated fan of herb Alpert and the TJB - they have been and remain my favorite musical performers. But I don't like the sound of the trumpet on the later recordings - it is like Herb has said himself - tired and burned out. The "magic" was no longer there.

You're not alone--I've always commented that Beat Of The Brass was an album that has always sounded tired and weary. It wasn't skill, though--I think that he may have been mentally tired (unconsciously), weary from years of going in and out of studios and arenas.

Or like B.B. King said, "The Thrill Is Gone."

 

[DAN BOLTON]

Okay, okay...he probably was burned out...a divorce will do that to you. I know that from experience. I lost just about everything in mine, and it's taken 6 years to get to the point where I'm beginning to feel like a human being again, so I know how Herb must have felt. It's really a wonder that the music survived at all...because so many things distract you from being able to focus on your job, little things like, "Where am I going to sleep tonight"...and "Am I going to BE ABLE to sleep tonight"...and if you add the waning popularity of the TJB sound, it's a wonder he didn't just say, "Screw it..." and walk away. Sharon really seemed to kick him when he was down, didn't she...of course I don't know the real story, but a lot of times, women are notorious for waiting until the guy's in a bad patch to drop the hammer on him, that's what my ex did...


But, Herb...you did a great job of coming through the wilderness, and your example is a great inspiration to me. THe music you created during this time is some of your best. And the horn STILL sounded good...one more thing...does Lani have a sister?


Dan

 

[W.B.]

It has gone to the center of a question that has really been bothering me - what happened to the Brass? I noticed the change at the time as well, but I think it goes back further than SRO - hints of it are in "What Now My Love" and the "Work Song". There was a choppness to both those songs, as if Herb were trying to articulate individual words or notes, where in previous albums the trumpet in Captaindave's words had "a bigger, broader, richer, more full and open tone" It flowed. The new style continued to evolve and Herb's horn became much less dominant. This was particulary true by the time of the "9th" and "The Beat of The Brass" I don't know if it was due to tiredness or an effort to develop an individual style. I think Bert Bacharach might be to blame. At any rate, I enjoyed the music less with each album

The factor of Mr. Alpert's post-'67-'68 trumpet-playing style might be a clue as to his not playing on the Carpenters' first #1 single, "(They Long To Be) Close To You" (even though, from what I've read, he was the one who suggested they record it). On this song, the horn is far more pronounced and assertive (which, according to those in the know, has been attributable to Chuck Findley who'd played on certain Bacharach-David productions for Dionne Warwick, i.e. "Walk On By"). Whereas, on Kris Kristofferson & Rita Coolidge's "A Song I'd Like To Sing" (from the Full Moon LP on which Mr. Alpert was a guest instrumentalist), the "choppy / less dominant" sound was in evidence towards the end of the tune.

 

[mikeargo]

Nothing to do with whether Herb's playing got worse toward the end of the original TJB, but I remember my grandfather telling me sometime in '69 that he'd just read or heard that the TJB had disbanded. (A crushing bit of news to a 13-year-old TJB fan, you can bet!) He also said that the band had demanded a raise to $100,000 per year, this being, presumably, the reason Herb broke it up, being unwilling to pay them that high a salary. A hundred grand sounded like a million dollars to me back then, but I'm guessing they must have been getting paid pretty close to that (if not more) at the time, what with all the TV specials and such. Anybody else remember this?

Mike

 

[Captain Bacardi]

He also said that the band had demanded a raise to $100,000 per year, this being, presumably, the reason Herb broke it up, being unwilling to pay them that high a salary. A hundred grand sounded like a million dollars to me back then, but I'm guessing they must have been getting paid pretty close to that (if not more) at the time, what with all the TV specials and such. Anybody else remember this?

According to the 1967 edition of Biography the TJB sidemen were already making $100,000 per year, which made them the highest-paid sidemen at the time. They also traveled first class wherever they went, so I doubt that money was an issue. Even if it was and if Herb wanted to continue playing gigs, he could've gotten some younger players who would've played for almost nothing. Remember, Herb considered the TJB to be a "sound" rather than a "band".


Capt. Bacardi

 

[mikeargo]

According to the 1967 edition of Biography the TJB sidemen were already making $100,000 per year, which made them the highest-paid sidemen at the time. They also traveled first class wherever they went, so I doubt that money was an issue. Even if it was and if Herb wanted to continue playing gigs, he could've gotten some younger players who would've played for almost nothing. Remember, Herb considered the TJB to be a "sound" rather than a "band".

I always figured that granddad (who was a country preacher, to whom $100,000/year was a ridiculous amount of money just for playing music) got it wrong somehow, and there were other reasons besides money for the band's breakup. But that's what always stuck in my memory. Glad to hear it confirmed as false, finally.

Mike