Which TJB album gets the least play from me

[Steven J. Gross]

Without asking which TJB album is the "weakest", I pose the question, Which TJB album is least likely to be played in the coming year(s)? Herb Alpert solo albums are not included-
My conclusion: I'm least likely to play "The Lonely Bull", which surprises me, because it is not a bad album at all, just a bit primitive in the TJB evolution. But that is a great compliment to Herb Alpert, that each album since has only been better and better!

 

[Harry]

I'd have to say Volume 2. It was the last of the early TJB albums I owned, and I always found it a bit disappointing. There was too much 'partying' going on on that disc. That said, I really like "Winds Of Barcelona" and Herb's take on "A-me-ri-ca". It's just not an album that I pull out to listen to as often as the others.

Harry
...finished the Saturday 'chores', online...

 

[Steven J. Gross]

It was a toss up for me between "Volume 2" and "Bull".
I also meant to ask that compilations not be included.

 

[Captain Bacardi]

For me The Brass Are Comin' and Volume 2 get the least play, although there are a couple of songs from each that I tend to like, but the overall feel of the albums do nothing for me. Since I've put those songs on my own compilations these albums get played even less now.


Capt. Bacardi

 

[DAN BOLTON]

With me, it would be WHAT NOW MY LOVE...first off, the cover photo was from a 1964 shoot, so it was a retread at first glance...also, from my thoughts, it seemed from the cover shot that Herb was doing the "spurning", so THAT didn't sit too well, either...he was frowning, like he was saying,"Get me AWAAAAY from this broad..." and I didn't like that, either...so I approached the album from a decidedly negative standpoint without ever even hearing it.


Musically, it isn't bad; but it isn't great, either...nothing could be after WHIPPED CREAM and GOING PLACES. I mean, how do you top those two chartbusters? It didn't seem to have quite the international flavor that the previous two albums had, either...it was lush rather than exotic. The trumpets seemed to blare a bit...the technique that Herb described in the liner notes from DEFINITIVE HITS worked pretty well for "WHAT NOW MY LOVE", but were a little less effective for "MEMORIES OF MADRID" which always seemed to me to be a tone poem depicting the world's most romantic traffic jam...sorry...

I liked Herb's version of "THE MAGIC TRUMPET" and "CANTINA BLUE", but "IT WAS A VERY GOOD YEAR" and "THE SHADOW OF YOUR SMILE" seemed a trifle overdone...but, I never cared for those tunes, anyway...


The back cover shot is my all-time favorite group shot of the Brass...they were the epitome of 1960's celebrity...and this photo captures that in spades...exotic, international and whimsical, all at the same time...there were several shots from that particular shoot that were very powerful portraits of what the Brass was all about.


So, WNML is both good and not so good, I refuse to call ANY TJB album bad, because none of them really were...but this one doesn't knock my socks all the way off.


This is a hard subject to come to grips with...I don't particularly care much for telling my idol what I think his mistakes were...it's kinda like dissing God in a way...I feel like I'm stepping on some pretty big toes...I'm just an amateur critic and songwriter who'll NEVER be in his league...and I realize that you can't hit a homer every time you step up to the plate. Herb hit more than most...and even his long balls were better than a lot of other people's runs...


Dan

 

[venturaguy49]

Prob'ly the only T.J.B. album that never sat well with me was "Summertime", and even then, at least 50% of it's prime T.J.B...seems that the two Alpert projects that have failed to gain their due appreciation, being the aforemen- tioned disk, and "Warm" were recorded after major tv-related endeavors, and so it's hardly surprising that after the stress of putting out a specially planned album such as "Beat Of The Brass", or " The Brass Are
Comin'", that the followup would seem lackluster, but in all fairness, "Warm" was quite a satisfying album, or at least to me it was. Some disks, such as "Vol 2", are charming for their ambience, but personally, had Julius Wechter added some cool marimba, it's a safe bet that the second offering from the fledgling 'Brass' would have been a whole lot more appealing. Also, in my opinion, many of the selections would also have gained greater appeal by haven been played in a higher key...note that the selections on "South Of The Border" have more sparkle? The big prob with "Vol 2" is that almost murky quality that trumpet in low key, performed over (frequently) hand drums imparted, but in fairness, I again have to recognize the ambience, and also offer praise for the album's highpoints. "More" comes off as one of the most appealing Alpert gems ever, and then there's the regal majesty of "Marching Thru Madrid", or then what is in my estimation, one of the best ever T.J.B. tracks ever: "Mexican Corn" Thing is, that a great band is charicterized by their •peaks•, and in the T.J.B. catalogue, there were many of them, but one has to appreciate that no artist, unless they are willing to risk burnout, will try to push themselves to put out a con- tinuous string of top product, as it's more sensible to pace oneself.
So, after the strenuous efforts of productions such as "Going Places" and "Whipped" cream, it was neccessary to record a 'fun' album such as "What Now My Love"...just fun, but lacking the sophistication of the previous two works, but they came back with a vengence with the fabulous "S.R.O.", and that's what great bands do...they pace themselves. Oh, by-the-way, for those that are interested, the popular "Whipped Cream" was written by no less than the legendary New Orleans songsmith Alan Toussaint, who, due to contractual complications with his name, assumed his mother's maiden name during publication of that classic, and that's F.Y.I , and with that I'll split, but do have a pleasant one, y'all!

Warm Wishes,
Steve, who can wax philosphically with the best or worst of 'em

 

[Captaindave]

Probably of all the TJB albums that I have - and that is all of them up through The Brass Are Comin' - I would say that the Brass Are Comin' has had the least play overall.

There's something about that album - I can't exactly say for sure just what it is - that kind of bores me.

I think the TJB have sort of run their course - "run out of gas" so to speak - by this album, and to me, it sounds like it. It is almost like this album was made under some kind of "obligatory" conditions - not a whole lot of desire/interest on the part of the performers. Sort of like "let's make the album and get it over with and stop doing this,etc.,etc...."

IMO, The Beat Of The Brass is/was the last "hurrah" for the TJB and with that, the era closes....

Warm signals the sound of something different - I know that many fans love this album, but when I first heard it, I wondered what Herb was up to.
Things didn't sound the same anymore - the trumpet no longer sounded like the Herb Alpert trumpet I had come to know - being a trumpet player myself that was a big change because I listened to the sound of the trumpet perhaps more than anything alse about the TJB.

So, The Brass Are Comin' is kind of a sad album for me because, from hindsight, I know that the TJB were sort of at the end of the road with that one.

 

[thetijuanataxi]

Let me begin my post by adding to some of the previous posts. First, "Whipped Cream" was written by Naomi Neville and not Allan Touissant. Second, I am tired of hearing people diss "Volume 2". I think it is an excellent album and has some great arrangements. The fact that it doesn't sound like GP or WC&OD is not necssarily a bad thing. Quote from GP: "With each album, they discover a new range". Viva la difference! Herb Alpert quote: "the sound never stood still long enough for anyone to accurately copy it". V2 was more "Tijuana" and less Americanized than GP, and while GP is still my favorite TJB album, I'm glad Herb did some more authentic arrangements as well. Third, "What Now My Love" lackluster????? Made at the peak of their popularity and featuring some of the best Herb/Julius interaction. Just the fact that it has "Brasilia" on it is worth the price of admission, IMHO. I agree that they could have used a more updated cover photo, but other than that this album is SOLID. As for the expression on Herb's face, how lovingly was he supposed to look at Sandra Moss?? Jerry is a big guy!!(LOL). Fourth, "The Brass Are Comin'" sounds tired?? How? In spite of the waning popularity of the Brass at the time of it's release, I think it follows the format of "The Beat Of The Brass" and is almost as good. Maybe not their best LP, but tired?? Now onto my least played TJB LP: "Summertime", not because it's bad, but because I like the other ones better. If any TJB album sounds a bit tired, it's this one. Though it is still an excellent LP. Herb sounded like he was musically searching for a new niche on it and the songs did not have the range of his earlier LPs.

David,
hoping he hasn't offended anyone and putting "Volume 2" in the CD player....

 

[Harry]

This often happens whenever "worst" or "Least liked" topics come up. No matter what, we're all individuals with individual tastes. One commonality we all share is a love for the TJB and/or Herb Alpert, but within that niche there are bound to be variations. I actually thought this particular topic was well-phrased -- that is, which TJB album gets the least play from you? The fact is, Volume 2 often gets chosen as the TJB album that somehow doesn't measure up with the others. Yes, it's more "Tijuana" and less "America" despite the inclusion of a song with the latter's name. That doesn't make it bad, just different. The direction of the sound of "Tijuana Brass", whatever it was to be, hadn't yet been found, and this one veered off in one particular direction. I still like it -- I prize my CD of it -- it just doesn't get as much action on the turntable/CD player as others do.

I too was surprised that anyone would mention What Now, My Love as a least-played. I put that one near the top of any 'best' list any day, but then that's the difference between individuals. We all have different things that 'push our buttons.'

And, I believe it is known that Alan Toussaint DID indeed write "Whipped Cream" but used a pen-name of Naomi Neville.

Harry
...getting ready for the first of three hellacious days at work, online...

 

[Rudy]

The ones I play most are Warm, Summertime, Going Places, South Of The Border and Whipped Cream. The others tend to come and go, but I think that the string of What Now My Love, SRO, Sounds Like... and Beat Of The Brass get the least play. IMHO, they just seem like the same formula redone four times, although Beat is really tired-sounding (and has the insufferable "Talk To The Animals" on it, which worked on TV but not on an LP). Easy to see why Warm was recorded after that one!

(Fixed my "Going Places" gaffe... )

 

[thetijuanataxi]

Hmmm. "Going Places" makes the most AND least played on Neil's list?? I wonder what the pecking order would be for his collection of Kenny G. discs??(LOL).

David,
wondering why Neil hasn't started a Kenny G. site yet(LOL).........

 

[Rudy]

The only Kenny G. I own is, unfortunately, due to a couple of tracks on a Dudley Moore CD, and another (called "G-Rit") on Lee Ritenour's otherwise excellent Portrait CD. He also ruins the final track on another CD I own, but can't recall the name of it.

Kenny G. was the only time my mother actually called the manager of a restaurant over to the table and told him to turn off that wretched noise. Do I need to find my old "101 Uses For A Kenny G CD" list?

Just remember, Kenny G. has touched a lot of peoples' lives.

So has the Cruise Ship Virus. (That's "G" on the right, BTW...)

Suddenly nauseous,

 

[DAN BOLTON]

Let me begin my post by adding to some of the previous posts. First, "Whipped Cream" was written by Naomi Neville and not Allan Touissant. Second, I am tired of hearing people diss "Volume 2". I think it is an excellent album and has some great arrangements. The fact that it doesn't sound like GP or WC&OD is not necssarily a bad thing. Quote from GP: "With each album, they discover a new range". Viva la difference! Herb Alpert quote: "the sound never stood still long enough for anyone to accurately copy it". V2 was more "Tijuana" and less Americanized than GP, and while GP is still my favorite TJB album, I'm glad Herb did some more authentic arrangements as well. Third, "What Now My Love" lackluster????? Made at the peak of their popularity and featuring some of the best Herb/Julius interaction. Just the fact that it has "Brasilia" on it is worth the price of admission, IMHO. I agree that they could have used a more updated cover photo, but other than that this album is SOLID. As for the expression on Herb's face, how lovingly was he supposed to look at Sandra Moss?? Jerry is a big guy!!(LOL). Fourth, "The Brass Are Comin'" sounds tired?? How? In spite of the waning popularity of the Brass at the time of it's release, I think it follows the format of "The Beat Of The Brass" and is almost as good. Maybe not their best LP, but tired?? Now onto my least played TJB LP: "Summertime", not because it's bad, but because I like the other ones better. If any TJB album sounds a bit tired, it's this one. Though it is still an excellent LP. Herb sounded like he was musically searching for a new niche on it and the songs did not have the range of his earlier LPs.

David,
hoping he hasn't offended anyone and putting "Volume 2" in the CD player....

THAT was Sandra Moss? I always thougt it was Sharon....really, the interplay between Julius and Herb was kinda good on this album, and I forgot to mention that I liked "BRASILIA" a lot, and Bob Edmondson plays a great bass trombone on "If I WERE A RICH MAN"...but "FRECKLES" always seemed to be a "RED, RED, ROBIN COMES BOP, BOP, BOPPIN' ALONG" ripoff[the first few bars are the same], and "It WAS A VERY GOOD YEAR" and "THE SHADOW OF YOUR SMILE" were old peoples' music to me, at least in 1966; and "FIVE MINUTES MORE", even with a faster tempo, still sounded like it was better left back in the '40's...

The problem that any artist that does a lot of "covers" is that you have to cover what there is to cover..and if there isn't a lot out there to work with when you need to cut an album, you're in a bit of a bind...there wasn't a lot of popular music on the charts that I particularly cared for at the time WNML was released, I guess...Herb was at the mercy of the market at that particular time for a sizeable portion of his album. He did a good job with what he had to work with...I can't deny that, it's just that what was out there didn't really fit the TJB mold too well, at least not the way I was used to hearing it...


I really like Herb's version of "WHAT NOW MY LOVE"...it's really one of his better efforts. The bassline and the twin trumpets in thirds really sound great...and when I think of a definitive example of the TJB sound, this song and "A TASTE OF HONEY' and "SPANISH FLEA" are the ones that come to mind. But I really never could decide how the song makes me feel...if I follow the lyrics, I can't justify the uplift the arrangement makes me feel, because it's kind of a "Non Sequiter"...it "doesn't follow"...so, I try noot to think of the lyrics, but I was bombarded with them just like everbody else from the '60's was, so theey creep back into my consciousness before the song is over. Some kind of "musical schizophrenia", I guess...the song, at least Herb's version, deserves better...

The whole album, to me, seems to be looking for an audience...it seems to be aimed at older fans than the previous two were, more [and I KNOW I'm gonna get razzed good for this next line...just make sure the tomatoes are nice and ripe...they're softer that way...] of a Sinatra/Lawrence Welk crowd pleaser...it worked, my father liked this album more than some of the others...but it's interesting that Herb has always been an innovator, always at the cutting edge...this album didn't seem new to me...


Dan

 

[Captain Bacardi]

Second, I am tired of hearing people diss "Volume 2". I think it is an excellent album and has some great arrangements.

First of all, I think you're taking this the wrong way. Just because some of us say it's one of the "least played" as compared to the other albums doesn't necessarily mean we "diss" the album (and do people still use the word "diss" these days?).

Fourth, "The Brass Are Comin'" sounds tired?? How?

Maybe it's because Herb had problems getting a sound out of his horn, as he has admitted a number of times in the past. By the time this album came out the other hornmen in the Brass had to cover a lot for Herb during concerts. It was pretty evident during the live performance at the end of the BAC TV show, as well as the BBC broadcast of the TJB shortly thereafter, where he missed quite a few notes. He had grown tired of what he was doing, not to mention his impending divorce. His head just wasn't on right at this point in time, and it showed in his playing. It wasn't a matter of recording techniques or style of playing. He was burned out, and it showed.


Capt. Bacardi

 

[Captaindave]

I think that Captain Bacardi is thinking like I am regarding The BRASS ARE COMIN' time period.....

As a long time trumpet player, I was first attracted to the TJB by the sound of the trumpet as the featured instrument. It was unique in the rock/guitar/vocal dominated popular music of the times. This was at a time when I was searching around for trumpet player models for myself.I had listened to Al Hirt and Raphael Mendez, but was impressed by Herb more because he was playing more of a mainstream pop style that appealed to me more at the time, probably due to my age. I was beginning my own lessons and trying to develop a sound and style of playing. Herb Alpert was ascending to the height of TJB popularity(this is happening about 1965)and his music and sound were very visible and popular with just about everyone.

Later on in high school - (1967 - 1969) - I was part of a group that played TJB songs and some other music also, but all in the TJB style and instrumentation. I was always listening carefully to Herb's style, tone, phrasing, and playing characteristics, and trying to learn from him. So I listened as a trumpet player would listen to his/her model, so to speak, and during that time, I felt that I noticed a change in Herb's sound as it got toward the end of the sixties.

To my ears as a trumpet player, Herb's greatest trumpet sound was in the SOUTH OF THE BORDER through the SRO period. Big, full, robust, clear, and commanding tone and sound. The sound of the trumpet on SOUNDS LIKE seemed to me to be a starting point for a little change.......by the time WARM came around, Herb sounded to me like a different player than a few years before.

So, THE BRASS ARE COMIN' is an album that, IMHO, has lost the "zing" and "zip" of the earlier stuff. I don't mean to say it is bad - in fact, I rather like The Maltese Melody, But I think that song would have really been a great one if it were on the GOING PLACES album and played with the energy and zest that comes across so clearly on that album.....

Just by way of a sort of postscript - I guess that may be why I like the FANDANGO album most from the solo period. It sounds like Herb has decided to really play the trumpet again as it should be played...big, bold, brassy, and commanding sound.

 

[Steven J. Gross]

Neil writes: Just remember, Kenny G. has touched a lot of peoples' lives. So has the Cruise Ship Virus. (That's "G" on the right, BTW...)

Suddenly nauseous,


-= N =-

People magazine called the latest Kenny G as among 2002's worst!
-Steve

 

[Rudy]

I need to find that Pat Metheny article where he rips "G" a new one. Classic reading! You can probably find it on the web if Google for both their names and Louis Armstrong's.

In fact, here's a link to it:

http://www.jazzoasis.com/methenyonkennyg.htm

(You GO, Patrick!!)

 

[Rudy]

I might add that this is supposedly written by Pat...most believe it is. (I've seen Pat's writing before, and it is close enough to his sometimes rambling style.) But as one site put it, even if it's NOT Pat's the point is still very valid.

I know somone I can ask, who might know if Pat wrote it. It's been bugging me.

 

[Captain Bacardi]

I need to find that Pat Metheny article where he rips "G" a new one. Classic reading! You can probably find it on the web if Google for both their names and Louis Armstrong's.

In fact, here's a link to it:

http://www.jazzoasis.com/methenyonkennyg.htm

(You GO, Patrick!!)

How did the Kenny G thing get onto this thread??? I also have several links to it, BTW. Classic reading indeed!


Capt. Bacardi

 

[Mr Bill]

For me it's S.R.O.. Aside from "Work Song" and "Mexican Road Race" I never much cared for this LP. Of course, I should give it a listen again. Over time many of my least-liked songs have grown on me -- "Lemon Tree" & "Tangerine" from Whipped Cream & Other Delights and "Mae" from Going Places now rank among my "new" favorites. Perhaps age is mellowing me to appreciate the slow ones now?

--Mr Bill
a mellow 42 at present

 

[Captaindave]

I like Mae, Tangerine, and The Shadow Of Your Smile because these songs show how Herb plays a melody. His tone, phrasing, and stylistic interpretation are showcased on these songs.They are distinctly Herb Alpert and as soon as you hear them, you immediately know it is TJB(true of most of his playing, but on the slower songs especially). A song that is a little more up tempo and also is similiar in those ways is So What's New. His sound and style on that one simply cannot be imitated, IMO.

 

[Rudy]

Over time many of my least-liked songs have grown on me -- "Lemon Tree" & "Tangerine" from Whipped Cream & Other Delights and "Mae" from Going Places now rank among my "new" favorites. Perhaps age is mellowing me to appreciate the slow ones now?

Now that you mention it, I'm finding myself gravitating toward the quieter or moodier songs, more in the later period than the earlier. A couple of tracks from Coney Island have really grown on me lately: "Mickey" and "Carmine". ("Vento Bravo" still remains my overall favorite on that album.) On You Smile--, "Last Tango In Paris" and "Song for Herb" are ones I'll repeat. Quincy's arrangement for "Tango" still gives me goosebumps all these years later, having first heard it on Foursider.

 

[thetijuanataxi]

I've always been very fond of "A Beautiful Friend" and "She Touched Me" from BEAT. Also, I think one of Herb's all time best covers is "And The Angels Sing" from GOING PLACES. No other version even comes close, IMHO. Also, "Mae" has grown on me a lot in recent years, probably due to my playing it on the trumpet myself and realizing just how polished Herb's phrasing was on that tune.

David,
bidding all a good night.......

 

[Harry]

Some of the slower, quieter TJB songs jumped right out at me all those years ago as I tracked the albums. Those would include "Mae", "A Quiet Tear", "For Carlos", and "Song For Herb". Some of the others took longer for me to appreciate, but those really hit me early on. Like others, I think I always gravitated toward the bouncy, happy tunes, but these "reflective" songs are like the icing on the cake.

Harry
...thinking a line about cake and icing will get Shirley into the thread, online...

 

[Captaindave]

Yes.....A Quiet Tear, For Carlos, And The Angels Sing, I've Grown Accustomed To Her Face, Shades Of Blue(SOUNDS LIKE album).....great songs.

Out of all the great trumpet players that have come along over time,I most admire Herb and would choose his playing for myself if I could choose a famous player to imitate.