⭐ Official Review [Album]: "MADE IN AMERICA" (SP-3723)

How Would You Rate This Album?

  • ***** (BEST)

    Votes: 14 13.1%

  • ****

    Votes: 26 24.3%

  • ***

    Votes: 40 37.4%

  • **

    Votes: 22 20.6%

  • *

    Votes: 5 4.7%
  • Total voters
    107
Status
Not open for further replies.
ullalume said:
Years ago I created a MIA redux playlist. I really like the album as it stands but I switched Strength, Lying, Believe and Wedding for You're Baby, End of a song, Uninvited Guest and Kiss me....this version I love.
Click to expand...

Great idea! I might do this with Voice of the Heart. That's the album that disappoints for me; ESPECIALLY after hearing LOVELINES and what WAS in the vaults at that time. Why Where Do I Go From Here, Kiss Me, and You're the One were NOT on that (VOH) posthumous release kind of made me mad, actually. AND, if you take all the posthumous releases of songs (even the one-offs like Tryin' to Get The Feeling Again and Leave Yesterday Behind), LOVELINES could have been a "full" Carpenters album sans the solo project stuff. The solo stuff should have waited until the solo album was ultimately released in its entirety. Just my opinion.
 
A&M Retro said:
Couldn’t agree more! It’s always been my favorite on this album. I was shell-shocked it didn’t do better at the time.
Click to expand...

It's one of my favourites. That's my username. WYBIMLA
Want you back in my life again! :razz:

How ironic would it be with this username that I'd say much negative about this album, right? Lol

Personally, I think what the C's were doing in the studio at that time was greatness and there was more to come.
I mean, The C's doing bubblegum pop is a guilty pleasure. It's ear candy. I love it.
KC & RC could do some fine upbeat numbers too.
You don't hear those sounds anymore. Especially siblings harmonizing together. You just don't get that very often.
It's a cute song! What can I say? haha
 
I find this album interesting for another reason,
my almost-personal-favorite on the album--Strength of a Woman--
seems to be one of the most disliked songs by most everyone else !

Ah, but that circumstance does not bother me in the least !
To each his own.
 
GaryAlan said:
I find this album interesting for another reason,
my almost-personal-favorite on the album--Strength of a Woman--
seems to be one of the most disliked songs by most everyone else !

Ah, but that circumstance does not bother me in the least !
To each his own.
Click to expand...
I'm right there with you! I think it is a great song and I think those critical of the lyric literally "don't get it." The lyric is genius!
 
GaryAlan said:
I find this album interesting for another reason,
my almost-personal-favorite on the album--Strength of a Woman--
seems to be one of the most disliked songs by most everyone else !

Ah, but that circumstance does not bother me in the least !
To each his own.
Click to expand...
It’s a very pathetic message coming across, if the lyrics are as clear as everyone believes. I like Karen’s phrasing even if she’s far from her low depths, but I don’t get a committed performance coming across, ironically in a song that’s about a woman staying committed despite a man’s “weakness”.
 
Jarred said:
It’s a very pathetic message coming across, if the lyrics are as clear as everyone believes. I like Karen’s phrasing even if she’s far from her low depths, but I don’t get a committed performance coming across, ironically in a song that’s about a woman staying committed despite a man’s “weakness”.
Click to expand...

Ok I agree the concept of Strength, certainly by today's standards, is offensive. I'm not sure what the intention was with it.
It sounds like a terrible message to send to youth and young adults. Usually, in cases where there's cheating involved people aren't encouraged to stay anymore. These days the first response wouldn't be "stay strong for your man."
That's a horrible thing to say.

I'd think there would be persons involved with a tune like that, that may feel differently about it now. The writing would be different on it if it were written today. It's interesting the liner notes shows a lot of female involvement on this song, but it does comes across as excusing problematic behaviour by men in marriage. Perhaps it is done in an ironic way that's meant to sound ridiculous. Like maybe it is somewhat cunning. Making fun of the man and being like "you don't know how strong I've had to be dealing with your stuff."

I don't know. It's doubtful it is meant to be taken as a 'high Art' concept where you have to think in depth and do circles in your mind to find some justification for the song.

Doesn't sound like a typical Carpenters selection. The only thing typical about it is that it is an offbeat ballad and melody.

For me it's one of those where I'm not really paying attention to the lyric on this one. I'm listening to sonic quality more than anything.

I think this is where the assessment of Carpenters taking on projects with complex emotions is much more apparent by their later work. I think of "Uninvited Guest" and "Somebody's been lyin" along those lines of these wildly complicated human emotions and exploration of human relationships. There are no words to describe it really. They're mixed feelings and Karen did a wonderful job to convey the complexity of the material.

All that aside, it becomes more about listening to the delivery and production elements for me.
Strength is not my first choice to play off of this album, but I have listened to it for sure more than a few times.

There are moments where to my ears as well the arrangement doesn't seem to blend well. The way the background vocals come in is almost... dare I say it... shrill.
I know the word shrill isn't something associated with The Carpenters at all. That might be a bit much for a descriptive word on this. It is a harsher sound. Perhaps it makes sense in the context of the song to not make this a sweet sounding song.
It doesn't sound very romantic to me in the least.

It's contrary to the whole Disney-esque idea, and feels more Aromantic with these kinds of complicated relationships songs that The C's were doing by this time. It's fascinating. One moment we're in LaLaLand getting married and the next somebody's cheating and lying and then it's gone. How that's for a Story Arc?

I suppose, if Strength was written to have children involved in the mix it may make a bit more sense. It can be understood that the man isn't really the one the narrator or female lead is singing about. She's singing to keep her family together in the face of recurring crisis, addiction, unresolved past issues in marriage to this out of control man.
It sounds like something only a relationship therapist could help with. Singing about it doesn't seem to be enough for this situation in question.

Anyways at the end of the day it's a song. It's Fantasies, make believe and old Archetypes, etc. It's open to interpretation, but it is a curious addition to the Carpenters repertoire.
 
Last edited:
WYBIMLA said:
I think this is where the assessment of Carpenters taking on projects with complex emotions is much more apparent by their later work. I think of "Uninvited Guest" and "Somebody's been lyin" along those lines of these wildly complicated human emotions and exploration of human relationships. There are no words to describe it really. They're mixed feelings and Karen did a wonderful job to convey the complexity of the material
Click to expand...
It’s weird because I think even in the lyrically “simpler” songs of their earlier work there’s a lot of complexity subtly being communicated, musically and vocally, and the latter so in Karen’s more naturalistic voice. The subject matter from something like Close to You to Uninvited Guest is of course eons apart, but there’s something going on in CTY, in their version, that’s more complicated than the song itself deserves. Karen can be just as emotionally mercurial in those two later mature songs, but she adopting an airiness that robs them of something. I remember a review on Amazon said that her performance in SBL comes off as coy instead of suffering. Even with Karen’s ineffable, prismatic quality I can agree with this. Maybe in these “suffering female partner” roles she’s making a conscious choice?

Its long been talked about what changed Karen’s voice in 1976, and I wonder if part of it is becoming smaller to make room for Richard. The deeply unfair guilt she must’ve felt from 1970-75 with her voice being praised as THE element of magic in their success had to have added another dimension to their complex dynamic. By softening and lightening her sound she’s allowing everyone to hear the arrangements, whereas earlier her fuller, deeper, more powerful tones commanded attention in a more direct way.

Can you imagine SBL and Uninvited Guest heard on Horizon or 1974 album? They would hailed as Carpenters classics today. But then we hear something like “You’re the One” - the power and richness are in full effect but it doesn’t make the album. Thanks to a coin toss, sure, but it sounds nothing like the rest of Passage. If I’m not mistaken the two standards for Space Encounters were done by Billy May or Peter Knight, with little to no Richard involvement, and she sounds more present and in command than anything we hear on Hush or Passage or America.
 
I honestly don’t remember paying much attention to the lyrics when the album was new. Maybe I’m ‘reading’ more into the songs today with the benefit of hindsight. Or, maybe it’s the fact that I was 19 years old in ‘81 and am 59 now. Life experience can most certainly change one’s perspective.

That being said, ‘Strength Of A Woman’ was an instant favorite of mine in the summer of ‘81. As a record, I still love it. The way Karen sings it, the Stylistics-style intro and the bridge of the song really makes it stand out for me, anyway.

Of course, TODAY, the lyrics sound pretty insipid. I keep thinking Karen should be telling this guy to take a hike!
 
Jarred said:
It’s weird because I think even in the lyrically “simpler” songs of their earlier work there’s a lot of complexity subtly being communicated, musically and vocally, and the latter so in Karen’s more naturalistic voice. The subject matter from something like Close to You to Uninvited Guest is of course eons apart, but there’s something going on in CTY, in their version, that’s more complicated than the song itself deserves. Karen can be just as emotionally mercurial in those two later mature songs, but she adopting an airiness that robs them of something. I remember a review on Amazon said that her performance in SBL comes off as coy instead of suffering. Even with Karen’s ineffable, prismatic quality I can agree with this. Maybe in these “suffering female partner” roles she’s making a conscious choice?

Its long been talked about what changed Karen’s voice in 1976, and I wonder if part of it is becoming smaller to make room for Richard. The deeply unfair guilt she must’ve felt from 1970-75 with her voice being praised as THE element of magic in their success had to have added another dimension to their complex dynamic. By softening and lightening her sound she’s allowing everyone to hear the arrangements, whereas earlier her fuller, deeper, more powerful tones commanded attention in a more direct way.

Can you imagine SBL and Uninvited Guest heard on Horizon or 1974 album? They would hailed as Carpenters classics today. But then we hear something like “You’re the One” - the power and richness are in full effect but it doesn’t make the album. Thanks to a coin toss, sure, but it sounds nothing like the rest of Passage. If I’m not mistaken the two standards for Space Encounters were done by Billy May or Peter Knight, with little to no Richard involvement, and she sounds more present and in command than anything we hear on Hush or Passage or America.
Click to expand...

It is weird. With the luxury of so much time and digging into The Carpenters catalogue that you notice these kinds of things.
This is the stuff of video essays and short documentaries and such. I mean, Carpenters Land is full of many different possibilities fro video series and films.
A lot of material here to dive into.

I hear what you mean how Karen's old soul shined through on CTY and the Tan album. That's the "Husky Karen" that we [fans] like, but she wanted to soften it as time went on. I don't know if MIA vocal sound was what she had in mind. I think she liked how she sounded on the Hush album.
The Karen on Passage and Christmas album was more of that fuller sound we're used to. But, she definitely dabbled in this almost whisper tone of a voice. by MIA.

There's debate about whether it was a stylistic choice. My theory is more personal factors have to do with Karen's voice later on.
So it is and it isn't. It's her deciding to do it softer, but also some of that she isn't controlling.
There's expert opinions that disagree what may or may not affect the human voice. But in my opinion the Karen we hear on MIA is affected by stress, pressure, probably dehydrated, malnourished, fatigued, experiencing rocky marriage, torn between 'normal life' and 'rock start lifestyle' and has unresolved forms of traumas within her family that needed addressing, etc.
I'd think those types of things along with low confidence, low self-esteem would create that quieter Karen we're hearing on the later records.

But what do I know? :shrug:

It's still undeniably Karen doing her thing, but I'd think the bigger picture shows how that would make sense of what we're hearing in the context of that album process.

It may not even be that Richard is to blame for the voice feeling being buried. That very well might be as much vocal power Karen had at that time.

I think fans might miss that point that Richard always turned up the volume on Karen's voice. I wanted to blame him for that too, but it's not that the volume isn't up. Karen's voice was described as a whisper almost.
If he had brought up the amplification any higher at that point (volume wise) then you're getting room noise which isn't good for vocal overdubbing technique.

We have an example now of vocal amplification turned up on 'Touch me when we're dancing' only because of new technologies that made it so.

I think as far as volume that's a reflection of the actual vocal power Karen was giving at that time. Not necessarily Richard's doing.
Even during the live performances of "Touch me" and "Top of the world" in 1981 Karen's got the mic on and singing, but quieter than she usually is.
I think it's partly stylistic, but there's other factors coming into play and affecting her instrument [her voice].

There may have come a time where she may have wanted to consult with vocal specialist or vocal coach to build back some strength.
I hope that not sacrilegious to type here. We all know Karen didn't have formal singing lessons or anything like that before, right? She said "I just kinda walk out on stage and open my mouth."
It's common practice today for singers to visit with vocal coaches and do vocal warm ups and activities to help with vocal acrobatics and general voice issue. Doesn't mean there's anything wrong with that. She might have quietly went to see about that if there became something that she heard within herself and wanted to do that. Probably in the 80s or 90s there would be some benefit she might find from that.
If it wasn't vocal coaching, she'd have probably wanted to take some kind of acting classes or something of that nature. It only makes sense. I don't know if Karen would do that or not. I imagine she wouldn't talk about it publicly. Often Stars feel embarrassed by things like that, but it shouldn't be a shameful thing. Even Richard himself said he wished the two of them had the chance to practice more. They never seemed to have a lot of time. Perfectionists with no time is what that is.
 
Another favorite of mine from this album is When It's Gone.
If you missed it, here is a 1981 record-store promo spot by Karen & Richard, introducing songs off the album:
 
Someday said:
This softer-voice Karen debate has been going on forever - maybe it's a good time to ask Chris to get RC's opinion on it. Next podcast - 'Made in America': mixing and vocal choices ...
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'd vote for that too. I wrote a few times on other threads about the mysteries of the 80s in Carpenters Land.

There is still some missing information or something about The Carpenters in the 80s that leaves fans curious.
There isn't a lot of retrospective focus on that time; even though releases continued throughout the 80s from Richard on numerous projects.

On the subject of MIA, he's maintained over the years that Karen's voice wasn't affected or changed all that much and she sounded great throughout their career. By promos for Voice of the Heart Richard, Agnes and Harold all said Karen was singing beautifully.

I agree she is singing beautifully and we know she wanted to record and perform.
However, I haven't heard once in any documentary any mention about the subtle changes in voice later on.
There is a difference there and certainly during promotion in 1981 you can hear Live vocals that are the same whisper voice we're hearing on the album in contrast to the Karen heard performing in 1979.
It's not really a long time in between, but there's enough of a difference for fans to notice.

I guess it's the way that this is not acknowledged in documentaries often or books or Q&A's which makes those of us who hear it feel a bit crazy.

It's not bad, but it is a chance of scene. It's still recognizable, but not what fans are used to and there isn't clear answer why that might be the case.

It's not unusual for artist to say "I was going for that kind of sound" or "I was encouraged by another producer and friends to go that direction" or "I felt that's the current sound and I wanted to do my own spin on it." Something like that.

We're not owed any explanation but this is probably 20 - 30 years of back and fourth about the subject of The C's in the 80s and changes that were going on.

I'm not sure Richard would say much different now that he already has. He doesn't really have reason to say, "yah guys you know what you're right my sister is singing really soft on that last album." Like I mean he might say it with an eye roll. It doesn't make much of a difference now.
He's in the business of legacy protection, so I don't think he's going to start going too much into the area of "everything I'd like to have changed about my producing the 80s." Maybe there's something else he can add for fans.

I can't imagine there's going to be much more different answers for Carpenters researchers.
Richard is a fan of Karen and Karen was a fan of Rich. They weren't and aren't going to say too much publicly about behind-the-scenes details or what some of the hiccups and trouble spots were.
That may not even be a healthy road for him to go down now, and there may not be anything he gets from it or very much we get out of it.
I'd like to have his brain picked more on 'the mysteries of the 80s productions,' but we'll have to wait and see.
 
GaryAlan said:
I find this album interesting for another reason,
my almost-personal-favorite on the album--Strength of a Woman--
seems to be one of the most disliked songs by most everyone else !

Ah, but that circumstance does not bother me in the least !
To each his own.
Click to expand...
Touch Me, Back In My Life and Strength are tracks that I still listen to on a regular basis. I was in Miami on Spring Break when Want You was released. I remember walking the beach and kids were dancing to Back In My Life. It was a thrilling time. Many of us thought that it was going to be a smash.
 
I was still curious about single or original album versions of Those Good Old Dreams, so I decided to go through my vinyl. There is an album called The Very Best of the Carpenters from New Zealand with 18 great cuts. It has the original album version of it with synth in tact! It also has the radio edit for Calling Occupants, and a shorter version of YOM, just fades out earlier. 18 tracks on 1 lp is really packing a lot on there. It’s A&M, but marketed by Festival Records for N.Z., and probably Australia. The sleeve is thin cardboard, basically the inside sleeve for the front and back pics, that MIA should have been used. Also I was thinking that TGOD has the single version on the MIA remastered vinyl for Carpenters The Vinyl Collection too. Not sure if that needs to go on the songs listings section, or is that mainly just CD’s? This album was released in 1982, pre cd era.
 
I’m pretty sure that’s the album that was at number one the week of Karen’s passing. Pretty cool! Nice to think she knew about that, too, because they read Billboard cover to cover every week.
 
goodjeans said:
Touch Me, Back In My Life and Strength are tracks that I still listen to on a regular basis. I was in Miami on Spring Break when Want You was released. I remember walking the beach and kids were dancing to Back In My Life. It was a thrilling time. Many of us thought that it was going to be a smash.
Click to expand...
That's alot of pastel and short shorts.
 
I think I found a way to describe the negative vibes many feel for MIA in a nutshell: it largely feels like a parody of the Carpenters, like someone making fun of their early 70s era without realizing the artistry that coursed through it and leaned into the fluffy, airbrushed image but did it sonically as well. The cover too looks like a SNL skit or something. Richard and others bitch about CTY’s cover but it’s a Mona Lisa next to the caricatures on MIA dressed in cult-like robes.
 
Jarred said:
I think I found a way to describe the negative vibes many feel for MIA in a nutshell: it largely feels like a parody of the Carpenters, like someone making fun of their early 70s era without realizing the artistry that coursed through it and leaned into the fluffy, airbrushed image but did it sonically as well. The cover too looks like a SNL skit or something. Richard and others bitch about CTY’s cover but it’s a Mona Lisa next to the caricatures on MIA dressed in cult-like robes.
Click to expand...
I'll disagree with everything above.
 
Not sure I fully agree either, Jarred, but there are some good points here. Karen certainly does sound a bit "airbrushed" at times. The album as a whole just feels so different than what came before it. Even Hush seemed more traditionally Carpenters than MIA.

I really do appreciate the way we can disagree with each other with respect and kindness! That makes these boards SO different than the other ones I'm on. Thank you all!
 
I, too disagree. Remember, there was another technological breakthrough happening during this time in the world of studio recording which typically leads to the over-recording and producing of material for just about any artist.

As I'm looking back through this thread, I think we're overthinking the whole album to be honest—mostly as a result of trying to analyze it by looking through the opposite end of the lens called "life."

Karen and Richard made an album which reflected where each of them were as individuals, and as a partnership during that time. Richard had a new lease on life, and Karen was dying. It's a sad story, but both made their choices. Regardless of how it was handled, the label (A&M) supported them. The rest as they say, is history.

It's really not rocket science in the world of armchair psychology, despite the temptation to want to sensationalize all of this.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar discussions

Rudy
  • Sticky
  • Article
🎷 AotW: CTI Urbie Green: The Fox (CTI Records CTI 7070)
Replies
0
Views
43
Rudy
Rudy
Rudy
  • Article
🎷 AotW: CTI Don Sebesky: The Rape of El Morro (CTI Records CTI 6061)
Replies
0
Views
56
Rudy
Rudy
Rudy
  • Article
🎷 AotW: CTI Hubert Laws: The Chicago Theme (CTI Records CTI 6058)
Replies
0
Views
65
Rudy
Rudy
Rudy
  • Article
🎷 AotW: CTI Fuse One: Fuse One (CTI Records CTI 9003)
Replies
1
Views
105
Rudy
Rudy
S
* Ladies & gentlemen ... Lake Tahoe proudly presents - for one night (and ONE night only) - the greatest band you never heard in your life *
Replies
21
Views
934
STEVE@ENGLAND
S
Back
Top Bottom