a question about Encanto

[gameenjoyer]

Okay, as you all know, I usually restrain my posting to the Alpert/TJB board, and that is what I'm familiar with. That said, I was in what passes for a Walmart wannabe in my small town and they, for some weird reason, had a copy of a Sergio Mendes album on their budget rack for $8. From looking at some pictures on Amazon, I have concluded, despite not remembering what the title was from when I saw it, that it was an album called Encanto that I saw.

Here's my question: coming from my base of being used to Alpert, would that particular Mendes album be significantly different from what I'm used to, and, if not, which Alpert era would it be most similar to (bear in mind hat the only post-TJB albums I've ever heard are Rise, Beyond, Keep Your Eye on Me, and Anything Goes)? I know I've heard a lot, and most of it good, about the guy on here, but I've never heard anything by him before. For that price, I'm willing to give the guy a shot if you guys think I'll like the album despite being primarily an Alpert fan so far.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

Well...it's nothing at all like any of the Tijuana Brass albums. However, ENCANTO does have one song with Herb Alpert playing trumpet, and Lani Hall singing: The song is "Dreamer" and it's a nice jazzy ballad.

The album is very upbeat and danceable on most tracks, but the occasional ballad does present itself.

This album is bookended by four songs arranged and produced by will.i.am (of the Black Eyed Peas). will.i.am was much more heavily involved with the previous Mendes album, TIMELESS. To me, the will.i.am songs are the weakest on the ENCANTO album. My favorites are the ones he had nothing to do with.

Four or five of the tunes have raps on them; and there is some instrumental music, lots of Portuguese-language singing, and A LOT of percussion. Sergio plays acoustic piano and Fender Rhodes on most songs, and there is a huge variety of lead vocalists there are at least half-a-dozen different lead singers, maybe more (I don't have the album in front of me at the moment).

Keep in mind that Sergio isn't really a singer; he vocalizes a bit here and there but his main strength is piano and arrangements.

If I were to pick a Tijuana Brass song that sounds the most like this album, I'd go with "The Continental" from WARM. It has that south American beat, plus a ton of percussion. If you like that song a lot, I'd say you have a good shot at enjoying this album...but they are still as different as night and day. The music has a lot of features that I enjoy: Lots of percussion, lots of piano, upbeat/joyous songs, and a nice variety of different singers.

I will say this about Sergio Mendes music -- it offers more rewards with more listens. I really like the Portuguese singing and I can't explain why, but it's just a beautiful sounding language. The fact that I don't understand what they're saying has never meant much to me -- I just like the way it sounds.

I hope these random thoughts help you decide whether or not to buy the album.

 

[gameenjoyer]

The issue there is that Warm is one of the albums that hasn't appeared in the Signature Series yet, or at least, not on CD. I do have a copy of it on record, but I haven't had an accessible record player in years, so it's probably been at least a decade since I've heard that particular track. It doesn't really matter though; you make Mendes sound different enough from Alpert that I don't know that I have any further reason to bother worrying about it. I appreciate your detailed answer to my question, though.

 

[A&Mguyfromwayback]

Well, I'd encourage you to check Sergio out, through this album or a compilation of early Brasil '66 - remember, Herb has always loved Brazilian music (and this Brazilian artist in particular), and is very influenced by Brazilian music throughout his whole career.....

 

[Mike Blakesley]

True, true. Also the NINTH album (which IS on CD) has a lot of Brazilian influence, especially in the opening track "A Banda."

One thing I've always admired about Herb is his ability to produce another artist's record, but keeping it from sounding like his own records. Such as, he produced Lani Hall's albums right after she left Brasil '66, but those records don't sound at all like Brasil '66 even though Herb was the producer for those records too.

Many producers put their own musical signatures all over the albums they work on -- Todd Rundgren comes to mind, if you listen to the album he made with Hall & Oates (War Babies) -- it sounds like a Todd Rundgren record with Hall and Oates doing the vocals. Herb lets the artist shine through.

 

[Dave]

...Many producers put their own musical signatures all over the albums they work on -- Todd Rundgren comes to mind: If you listen to the album he made with Hall & Oates (War Babies)...

I really thought it was Along The Red Ledge, that Rundgren produced; but you may be right... (I can't remember right now, but it was one of the two--or both...!)...



Dave

 

[gameenjoyer]

Went back out there today. The lone copy of the Mendes CD was still there, so I had pity on it and purchased it. First track had me thinking I'd made a mistake, but the CD grew on me as I listened to the rest of it. I'll give it a few more listens before I form a real opinion on it though.

 

[Steven J. Gross]

Todd Rundgren played heavily and fully produced War Babies, my favorite Hall and Oates album and in my top ten all time albums...he played on Red Ledge but didn't produce it...
That aside, I think Sergio's early pre A&M album "The Beat Of Brazil" sounded closer to Herb than most....

 

[gameenjoyer]

Well, I gave the disc a second listen. One thing's for sure. Whoever this Sergio Mendes guy is (I still haven't a hint of a clue after listening to the CD two times), he isn't Alpert. The main focus on most of the tracks seems to be on the "featured performer". With Alpert, it's easy. His trumpet is obvious. So, I put it out to you all to answer for me: which instrument is Mendes', the one that I'm supposed to be listening for? I do hear a male voice once in a while that I've come to the conclusion is his, but not on every track.

That said, regardless of whether I can figure out who he is or not, I still enjoyed the CD. I was at another wedding in Illinois over the past weekend (the same arm of the family who had a marriage last year which resulted in me finally finding a copy of Anything Goes) and, while killing some time waiting for the time of the wedding, I was looking through the CD selections in a few stores, saw a few Mendes CDs from the Brasil '66 era, and decided to give one of them (Foursider) a try.

My initial theory still held: Mendes' stuff is not a lot like TJB stuff (much more vocals oriented), and wasn't trying to be. Actually, the vibe I got was that Mendes' music was similar to what the TJB might have become if Mexican Drummer Man (is that the right song name?) had taken off and been a hit. Still, even though it was different, one listen to most of the CD was enough to convince me the guy's music was worthwhile, so I picked up the other CDs that were available among the stores I had looked through before ending my shopping. Ended up buying four of them (Foursider, Greatest Hits, Classics Vol. 18 [who knew any of the classics series was still around? Makes me wonder how long that CD had been sitting there.], and a two-album CD evidently from a pre-A&M Atlantic period (The Swinger From Rio and The Beat of Brazil). Haven't had the chance to listen to any of the other three yet though.

Long story short, even though I have no idea from his music exactly what Mendes is actually responsible for on many of his recordings, I enjoy the music which has been released under his name (whether rightfully so or not), and that's all that's important to me.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

Sergio Mendes plays the piano and some percussion instruments. He also sings background, and on a few songs he sings a lead vocal (most often in duet). On the albums you've found, he is also responsible for the arrangements. (On his more recent albums he has collaborated with various other arrangers.)

Herb Alpert did not have anything to do with the Mendes albums on A&M other than producing them with Sergio, and from what we've been able to find out from interviews and such, Sergio had most of the responsibility for the group's sound after the first album.

Sergio can also be credited with discovering Lani Hall (lead singer of Brasil '66 and now, of course, married to Herb Alpert). He found her singing in a club in Chicago when she was 19. That's her voice you hear on those albums.

If you enjoy those compilations, you should find the first three or four Brasil '66 albums. There are lots of tracks on those records that are excellent but aren't included on the compilations.

 

[Mr Bill]

I can understand gameenjoyer's puzzlement. If you've been a Sergio fan from the early days (the 60s) then you know who and what he is and what his musical talents truly are.

But with his return to A&M in 1983 his role became more like that of Quincy Jones. He wasn't so much "leading a group" as he had with Brasil '##(insert number here) but served more as a catalyst for talented musicians whose skills he used to achieve his desired sound.*

--Mr Bill
* Herb did the same in the early TJB days before there was a "real TJB" -- think of all the instruments you hear on the early albums -- sax, flute, tuba -- none of which were part of the real TJB.

 

[Harry]

gameenjoyer is coming at Sergio in the same way that I did back in the '60s. I heard a track on FAMILY PORTRAIT that intrigued me ("Like A Lover") and decided to investigate the three Sergio Mendes A&M albums that were out there at the time. And I fell in love with that sound.

It didn't matter to me who Sergio Mendes was or what he played - I liked his records. Of course with time, I realized his keyboard and producing talent, and have even come to appreciate some of his singing ("Iemanja" and "Desenredo").

I worry about the duplication of tracks on gameenjoyer's compilations thus far.

The following tracks are on all three:
Mas Que Nada
With A Little Help From My Friends
The Look Of Love
Fool On The Hill
Look Around

These tracks are on two of the three:
Scarborough Fair
Like A Lover
Going Out Of My Head
So Many Stars
Day Tripper
Pretty World
One Note Samba/Spanish Flea
Bim Bom
Pais Tropical
Promise Of a Fisherman

Still, these are a great way to become familiar with the Sergio Mendes sound. And as Mike suggested, getting those first four albums would be next, in order to complete the early A&M sound.

The other duo, BEAT OF BRAZIL and SWINGER FROM RIO are a different sound. These feature Sergio's jazzier instrumental roots, so don't look for much continuity in the sound on those pre-A&M sets. The piano playing is the constant, but there are a lot of other instruments not found in Brasil '66, and there aren't any or many vocals at all.

Oh, and yes, as odd as it seems, that purple CLASSICS disc has remained in print all these years, as has the green GREATEST HITS and the FOURSIDER, Even with these out there, there are many other compilation titles that have been released over the years, and nearly ALL of them contain the mighty "Mas Que Nada".

Harry

 

[gameenjoyer]

Unfortunately, the Classics volume was in a different store than the other three. As such, I had compared Foursider and Greatest Hits when they were still both in the store (i.e., before I bought Foursider), and about half the tracks on Greatest Hits were unique between those two.

However, after going back to that store and buying Greatest Hits and the two-albums disc, I didn't bother to memorize their track listings at all and thus discovered later that the disc I had spent the most money on (the Classics 18 disc) had only three tracks not on either of the other compilations. Yeah, the other two compilations were $11.99 each and the Classics set was $16.99. If I'd have known that it was only three new songs, I might have decided to hold off on that one and stick with just the other three and Encanto for the time being. Oh well, I know Foursider didn't have any liner notes and doubt Greatest Hits will have much of anything in that regard either, so maybe the Classics 18 will be slightly more valuable due to the notes in it (I know TJB Classics 1 had pretty good liner notes).

Regarding your suggestion that I try to pick up the first four albums next:

1. Give me time to actually listen to the other three discs before I decide I need to buy more.

and

2. As anybody who has paid much attention to my posts here knows, I don't order stuff off of the internet. It was probably a fluke that I found so much Mendes stuff on this trip (or bookstores like Borders and Barnes and Noble, the places where I found the Mendes albums, have more respect for the guy than Best Buys and dedicated music stores where I usually look for stuff when I'm in bigger cities [couldn't find a dedicated music store in Rockford on Mapquest]), and thus, no guarantee that I'll ever find any more.

That said, we'll just have to see what happens.

Incidentally, the store that had had the Classics 18 disc had also had a copy of a 20th Century Masters compilation by Mendes as well the first time I was there on Friday night (I had passed on both because I wanted to see what else I found in the other stores before committing to one or the other of those Mendes discs). However, by the time I returned to the store to buy the Classics 18 disc Saturday morning, the 20th Century Masters disc was gone (I hadn't planned on getting it anyway), so I guess we know that someone else who was in the Rockford area that weekend was also at least willing to give Mendes a chance.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

Well - don't buy the Millenium Classics disk, it is just a rehash of what you already have.

And -- if you decide to buy the first four albums, any self respecting store should be able to order them for you because they're all available domestically.

 

[gameenjoyer]

Mr. Blakesley, as I indicated, I hadn't intended to buy the 20th Century Masters disc. I was just surprised it wasn't there anymore, and wanted to note that.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

Sorry, didn't read carefully enough.