⭐ Official Review [Album]: "MADE IN AMERICA" (SP-3723)

[Harry]

Comparing overdubs for the song against others in Carpenters canon, I find the overdubs--in this One instance--lacking.
(Am I the only one ?).

Perhaps. I've just done a second-by-second comparison of the amount of time given to overdubs in both "I Believe You" and one of the quintessential Carpenters records, "(They Long To Be) Close To You". That was the song that propelled them to number one and basically defined their formula.

In "I Believe You", a 3:54 song, I find 1:48 worth of overdubs, for a total of 46% of the record's time.
In "Close To You", a 3:38 song, I find 1:27 worth of overdubs, for a total of 40% of the record's time.

In fact, much of "Close To You's" overdub times comes from a doubling of Karen's voice rather than the almost total stacking found in "I Believe You".

I'm not suggesting that there aren't more songs with more overdub time, but I'd be willing to bet that there are quite a few with less, particularly in the later years.

Harry

 

[GaryAlan]

Great information, Harry !
Although, when I use the term 'lacking', I mean to imply more in line with the character ,
the sounding of the overdubs--not the time spent on overdubs.
Aren't both songs--Close To You and I Believe You--four-part harmony ?
Karen sounds fine on the overdubs in the later song, but Richard's vocal parts sound out-of-sync to my ears.
And, they always have (sounded out-of-sorts.) The duo's overdubs 'mesh' beautifully on Close To You,
this synchronization is what I hear lacking in the later song.
Also, Richard mentions Only Yesterday (ref: Coleman Biography) as being "manufactured", but, to my ears
this is the reason I Believe You suffers--as it really is "manufactured"...the slow shuffle beginning...the fabricated drum break...
where the overdubs in the 1970 single were fresh and inspired--such is lacking in the later song.
Yes, the time spent is indisputable, yet the results for the later single pale in comparison to the former single.
In order to provide for a continuous, flowing entity, I rather wish the song had been re-recorded,re-arranged, for the Album.
I do like the song (now)....but, I simply feel it could sound so much better !
(That is, better outside of Karen's Lead Vocal.)

 

[Harry]

Quite a few of us have commented on how "I Believe You" didn't do much for us - that's a subjective thing. Many songs and arrangements are recorded that overall do nothing for a vast majority. And then there are some that just strike a key with a large number of people - those are the "hits", the ones that people are motivated to spend money on, that they have to have.

We here are of a slightly different ilk in that our musical passions tend to flow against the grain of the masses. And even among ourselves, we have our differences in what songs push our buttons and which don't. I'm not sure what it is with "I Believe You" that have quite a few of us a bit underwhelmed. But I also recall quite a few comments that the reworking for the SACD suddenly made the song more acceptable, giving it a "most improved" status among the songs on that SACD. Other than a 5.1 remix, a simple turn of phrase was substituted for another one early on in the song. I believe that a number of us were so starved to hear something new from Karen that just this change was enough to boost the song's worth in our estimation.

Harry

 

[GaryAlan]

Interestingly ,too, given this sequence:
Dorothy Moore, 1977 (Single)
Carpenters , June 1978 (Single)
Barbara Mandrell, September 1978 (as an Album cut).
Any others I've missed?

I have to believe there is more to this song than meets the "ear".
The Fan Club was offering the Single for sale as a result of fans being unable to secure a copy from retailers--
I know I was unable to locate a copy at the time.
Nothing about this release makes sense to me--and, apparently radio was unwilling to provide needed airplay.
Would another Single choice have made a difference?
Given that the Passage Singles did relatively poorly, I would guess not.

 

[Harry]

Funny, at the radio station where I worked, I distinctly remember rifling through a pile of throwaway 45s and spotting "I Believe You" by Carpenters. It wasn't a song I recognized at the time,so I'm sure I would have taken it home. I don't have any specific memories of listening to it - perhaps I listened once and filed it away - I just don't recall. In later years, when I went to look for the single in my collection, I never found it, so it was either misfiled, given away when MADE IN AMERICA came out, or just lost. To this day, I still don't know what happened to it.

Harry

 

[newvillefan]

Other than a 5.1 remix, a simple turn of phrase was substituted for another one early on in the song. I believe that a number of us were so starved to hear something new from Karen that just this change was enough to boost the song's worth in our estimation.

That's the very thing that swung it for me with Solitaire. After years of hearing only the album version, the single mix really freshened it up for me and made me want to listen to it, when in the past all I'd ever done was skip it. The 'church organ' sound in the choruses is a very subtle, but welcome addition to the mix. Strange to hear that Richard is baffled nowadays as to why they even went to expense of remixing it, considering all the remixing he's done himself through their career and beyond.

 

[Harry]

The 'church organ' sound in the choruses is a very subtle, but welcome addition to the mix. Strange to hear that Richard is baffled nowadays as to why they even went to expense of remixing it

I'm pretty sure that Richard feels that the addition of the organ was so subtle as to go unnoticed by most. Kind of like putting a fresh coat of paint on your attic interior. It takes time, effort and money, but will never be noticed by the masses.

Harry

 

[GaryAlan]

I seem to recall a debate at A&M Records, between Carpenters and executives, about releasing
too many singles
off of one album (regarding A Song For You LP, If memory serves).
I wonder if there were debates regarding all of the singles released from this album ?
And, at that Beechwood 4-5789 was backed by Two Sides. (Quite a mismatch).
As of today my Two Favorites on this album are:
When It's Gone
and,
Because We Are In Love !

Okay, call me crazy in my old age.

 

[Charlie D]

I personally love "I Believe You", and I adore the orchestral intro, it sounds like magic.

Is anyone a real fan of "Somebody's Been Lyin"? I think its a gorgeous arrangement and Karen's whispery, subdued vocal (an approach I didn't love on other later songs like Strength OAW) blends beautifully with the swelling of the strings. I love the edge of darkness and mystery it has (not even taking into account Karen's paralleled marital situation) in orchestration, lyric and vocal, where she sounds as if she's singing this as a secret that she's afraid to expose to her S.O. and those around her. It's hush-hush. And that opening/closing "dun, dun, dun, dun" to mimic the sneaking around of lovers is brilliant.

 

[WYBIMLA]

"Somebody's been lyin'" fan right here! I agree.
I enjoy that last "love" Karen gives at the ending. Somehow it's so fitting for the song. She could have done it 'straight' or just utilizing her vibrato or whatever, but her reading is fantastic. A touch of vocal fry.

I said elsewhere on these boards that I wish there was karaoke for "SBL". Even if I were just at home to be able to experience it that way would be cool.
I do the same for "Because we are in love" there's a decent karaoke track out there. It's fun to get carried away with that material. There is this whimsical and beautiful quality to it. Just as a song too. Recording is great, wonderful (probably the definitive), but also as simply songs they're quite nice!
It's like a dream being brought to the forefront like most of the album, imo.

 

[newvillefan]

I seem to recall a debate at A&M Records, between Carpenters and executives, about releasing
too many singles
off of one album (regarding A Song For You LP, If memory serves).
I wonder if there were debates regarding all of the singles released from this album ?
And, at that Beechwood 4-5789 was backed by Two Sides. (Quite a mismatch).
As of today my Two Favorites on this album are:
When It's Gone
and,
Because We Are In Love !

Okay, call me crazy in my old age.

I remember the spring 1982 newsletter mentioned that "Richard decided" to release Beechwood 4-5789 on Karen's birthday, March 2, 1982.

Strange, given that it would be the label who sanctioned any release, not Richard. They definitely went overboard with single releases from this album. Once Back In My Life Again had bombed at #72, they should have left it there and moved on. Those Good Old Dreams was a single too far and Beechwood just sent them into chart oblivion.

 

[tomswift2002]

I remember the spring 1982 newsletter mentioned that "Richard decided" to release Beechwood 4-5789 on Karen's birthday, March 2, 1982.

Strange, given that it would be the label who sanctioned any release, not Richard.

As I recall it was mentioned in Ray Coleman's book that after Top Of The World was released as a single and proved to be highly successful (apparently the label objected to releasing TOW due to it being to long after A Song For You Came Out), the label gave Richard the ultimate authority over what was and was not released as a single or album by the Carpenters.

 

[GaryAlan]

My 'pet' theory regarding this issue is that prior to signing a 'new' contract in 1976,
the Carpenters, Richard and/or Karen, had little control over what A&M released---after all,
Richard was told to " learn to love it" with the photo/cover of Close To You album;
After 1976, it appears to me--they were 'given' a bit more control over what was released; thus, I
wonder if this was not a part of (a clause in) the new 1976 Contract secured by Jerry Weintraub.
Certainly there was a difference between Contracts--perhaps this extending to Richard and Karen
given more/some control over what was released.
I also wonder if they ever had--even now--"ultimate authority".
I'd love some references (outside of Coleman) clarifying this issue, though !
Some random musings on my part.

 

[newvillefan]

As I recall it was mentioned in Ray Coleman's book that after Top Of The World was released as a single and proved to be highly successful (apparently the label objected to releasing TOW due to it being to long after A Song For You Came Out), the label gave Richard the ultimate authority over what was and was not released as a single or album by the Carpenters.

I don't think there's any evidence to suggest that the label gave Richard ultimate authority over what was and was not released as a single or album. Yes he "shot back tartly" that they were releasing TOTW as a single, but I think that throwaway comment was born from frustration towards the label at that point in their career.

An artist cannot dictate to the label what they release....there are distribution, marketing and promotional costs to take into account that would prevent any artist having that much control over such a decision.

 

[WYBIMLA]

Within Carpenters fan groups I can't think of an album more polarizing than MIA. Lol
In a strange way it's almost their most controversial piece of work because of the song selection and production.
Would anyone else agree?

 

[Toolman]

Within Carpenters fan groups I can't think of an album more polarizing than MIA. Lol
In a strange way it's almost their most controversial piece of work because of the song selection and production.
Would anyone else agree?

Controversial, but IMO probably not just for those reasons. It was supposed to be their "comeback" album...Karen shelved her solo LP for it...it was the last album she'd ever record. That's a lot of baggage for one record to carry. I tend to be one of its critics, but to be honest, give it more mature cover art and replace "Because We Are In Love" with -- well, just about anything-- and I'd probably rank it equal to "Hush" if not a little better. And I know that lots of folks like the cover and "Because", so hooray that it's there for them to enjoy.

 

[Mark-T]

"I tend to be one of its critics, but to be honest, give it more mature cover art and replace "Because We Are In Love" with -- well, just about anything-- and I'd probably rank it equal to "Hush" if not a little better."

THAT is an interesting thought!

 

[GaryAlan]

Many moons ago I would have echoed that same sentiment.
However, my feelings regarding Because We Are In Love have changed substantially in the intervening years.
The album cut is not exactly the same as the way it was heard at the Wedding, and, I truly believe that the
version cut for the wedding was better. Had the song been properly arranged--- that is,
sans chorus (which only serves to drown out Karen's wonderful vocals) plus pared down in time and
pared down from an over-blown production---this would make for a great song. As it stands--the cut from the
album--it is only saved through Karen's vocals.( I'd love to hear only the lead vocal.).
The album artwork, well, I have softened a bit regarding that--it is almost interesting; and, perhaps it was one way to
hide Karen's physical illness from the record-buying public.(Isn't the inner sleeve heavily touched-up?).
But, sadly, for a comeback effort, the songs--in general--fail to ignite.
And, who spent over a year selecting those songs?("....raring to go with his music again", quoting from the Fan Club).

 

[WYBIMLA]

Imagine a mini doc about this time period with interviews (TV and radio)/retrospective, music videos/live performances, and rare photos put together.
There could be a chapter of the wedding and "Because we are in love" probably followed by a look at "Somebody's been lyin'" lol. It would totally be do-able, yet I doubt there'd be much interest beyond the fan base.
I know it would be tough and hard to avoid the health aspect of it, but I wouldn't mind to see insight into the music.
Imagine behind the scenes footage. KC in the studio laying down some of her final work/alternate takes.
Even if it were fan made I'd still get enjoyment from seeing that.
Actually mini doc might be too short for this. There's lots of subject matter there.

 

[Another Son]

Brian, that was indeed a nice read !

In (re-) reading the 1997 comment by Richard Carpenter, that 'I Believe You' ranks as one of Karen's finest vocal
performances, I am reminded of some questions I continue to foster regarding the song:
(1) Why do Karen's vocals on this song, when stacked against the other 1978 recorded vocals---sound less forceful ?
(Compare, say, this song with Little Altar Boy, as but one example).
(2) Why was the arrangement turned over to Paul Riser--he also arranged Dancing In The Streets for the Space Encounters Special.


Thanks for your positive comment, Gary! I'm glad you enjoyed!

I have some ideas regarding your questions. 1). Perhaps Karen was going for a more 'intimate' approach, given the theme of the song, in which she is singing directly to a loved partner. Or perhaps her vocal has been mixed differently. I think she is also singing softly on 'Little Altar Boy', (brilliant vocal, by the way), but her performance on this Christmas track has been recorded and mixed in such a way that it sounds vocally powerful.
2). I'm guessing that Richard wasn't in a fit state, due to his addiction, to arrange the song. He has mentioned in interviews about this period that he couldn't concentrate, that he often had the shakes and that he couldn't handle playing the piano as he used to, so I reckon he probably wasn't able to handle the mental load of arranging, either. Just my guesses and opinions.

 

[GaryAlan]

Here is Richard Carpenter, referencing
Touch Me When We're Dancing:
"One of our finest productions, this recording ultimately became our last Top 20 single"
Now, I have no training in music, but it seems to me that this song has as many---if not more--
higher notes sung by Karen, than does
Don't Cry For Me Argentina---where Richard says Karen does not linger long enough in the lower register,
and, therefore, he has altered his opinion on this recording (his opinion from from 1977):
Richard Carpenter: " though now I feel differently, as I believe the song doesn’t linger long enough in a lower register."

Am I the only one who finds this incredulous ?
In other words, higher notes are all over
Made In America
(Richard Carpenter:"Another favorite")

So, again, Why am I not understanding this ?
Both of the above songs are quality songs, regardless of the amount of time spent in "the lower register".

 

[Rumbahbah]

Here is Richard Carpenter, referencing
Touch Me When We're Dancing:
"One of our finest productions, this recording ultimately became our last Top 20 single"
Now, I have no training in music, but it seems to me that this song has as many---if not more--
higher notes sung by Karen, than does
Don't Cry For Me Argentina---where Richard says Karen does not linger long enough in the lower register,
and, therefore, he has altered his opinion on this recording (his opinion from from 1977):
Richard Carpenter: " though now I feel differently, as I believe the song doesn’t linger long enough in a lower register."

Am I the only one who finds this incredulous ?
In other words, higher notes are all over
Made In America
(Richard Carpenter:"Another favorite")

So, again, Why am I not understanding this ?
Both of the above songs are quality songs, regardless of the amount of time spent in "the lower register".

I think the thing is that Richard has changed his mind re his opinions on a number of their recordings over the years, so if you're going to compare statements made at different times - the comment on 'Touch Me When We're Dancing' was made in 1991 I think in the From the Top booklet, while I'm guessing that the critical comment about 'Don't Cry for Me Argentina' is much more recent - you're going to find plenty of anomalies between them.

 

[GaryAlan]

Thanks for the input, Rumbahbah !
I suppose--ultimately---what I am driving at is that the
quality of those songs has not changed throughout the years.
(In spite of Richard's change of opinion throughout the years.)
And, although I am unable to date when the comments were made by Richard
(let alone at what stage throughout the intervening years his opinion changed)
my query thereupon rests with the fact that he really has not changed his stance
on the song Touch Me When We're Dancing, although it is clearly in a higher range.

 

[Harry]

Song "quality" doesn't change over time, but "perception" of a song over time most certainly does. We all had favorite songs when they were new, but over time, some lose their lustre and no longer speak to us the way they once did. Some factors contributing to the phenomenon are the circumstances of why the song was recorded when it was, how it sounded in the milieu of its time, how often we've been bombarded with it on radio, and the fact that tastes change.

Many of us have stated on these pages that we've gravitated toward the lesser-played, the album tracks, the under-performers over the years. Those songs haven't changed their quality, but our perception of them DOES change.

Harry

 

[GaryAlan]

No disagreement with me, there, Harry !
That being said (in my instance)
(1) Previous to 1983 I thought Mr. Guder was a nice enough album cut.
Now, after events have transpired, I can hardly take listening to the song---
as I feel it is tripe, not worthy of wasting Karen's vocal talents upon.
And, how often does that song (re)appear on albums, singles, compilations.
(2) In 1981, I could scarcely have been a fan of Because We Are In Love,
Now, however, I feel that this song is a strength of the album, being as it is a powerful
rendering by Karen. Do I like the arrangement ? Not much--but, still, Karen hits those
highs and lows effortlessly in this song.

No, the quality of those songs has not changed.
But, thoughtfully, you bring to the fore precisely my viewpoint:
Revisionist thinking occurs in everyone regarding Carpenters' career--
Richard Carpenter is no exception.
However, since he is the Creator of these musical pieces, I remain interested in his outlook
regarding the duo's recordings.
History of Carpenters' career deserves more than what is
offered in Coleman's 1994 'authorized' tome.
(or, the, now defunct, Carpenter website, for that matter).