Anything Goes - Any Bonus Tracks???

[CherryStreet]

Any chance that we might get some bonus tracks when we buy from Best Buy? The new Sinatra live at the Meadowlands CD comes with a nice bonus disc and it is also a Concord Jazz release.

I think it would be a great idea to offer a Best Buy exclusive copy, it's become a marketing trend lately. Brian Wilson did it. Glen Campbell's CD last year on Capitol also had a Walmart exclusive with extra tracks.

Here's some ideas:

"Like A Star/Taste of Honey"
"Happy Woman"
"Peace In The Valley"
"Jobim Medley"
"New TJB Medley"
"Berimbau"
"O Pato"
"Wild Is The Wind"
"When Sunny Gets Blue"
"My Funny Valentine"

 

[Mike Blakesley]

I think those "exclusive" things are the work of the devil. They are a slap in the face to all the music stores who put the artists where they are today. All of the music should be the same in ALL of the stores.

Of course if I had stock in Best Buy or Wal-Mart and/or wasn't running a li'l mom/pop store, I would feel differently.

 

[Rudy]

I'd need to have someone buy it for me, since I never set foot in a Best Buy anymore (having been "done in" by them one too many times). Either that, or I get ticked off enough to find somewhere to download the bonus track(s).

However, Japan often gets bonus tracks. There's a reason behind this: many Japanese music buyers don't want to wait for a release in their country, so they buy it from the U.S., which depresses the market for the Japan release. To counteract this, the record companies add on a unique bonus track or two for the Japanese market, so they are more tempted to buy the recording in their home country. That is why you see so many Japanese CDs with bonus tracks these days--in my own collection I have music from Yellowjackets to Brian Setzer, and everywhere in between, on Japanese CDs that came with extra tracks.

It would NOT surprise me to see a bonus track on a Japan CD version of this album, but I'm not sure if Concord does this often or not.

 

[CherryStreet]

Who "steps" into a store anymore? neeye:

 

[Rudy]

Who "steps" into a store anymore? neeye:

True, dat. My new stuff always comes from Amazon these days. I still make a trek to the used rekkid stores though....it's a ritual.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

Who "steps" into a store anymore?

Lots of people. No matter what the media would have you believe, if you took stores out of the equation, the music market in this country would shrink mightily, because there are millions of people who either don't want to buy something without holding it first, or just don't like shopping online. Or they might not be inclined to buy an item because they don't "browse" online or belong to forums such as this one.

 

[Rudy]

To be honest, outside of the used shops, there isn't one single retail music store I'd walk into today. Best Buy and other big box stores have too narrow of a selection--they'd never stock what I listen to. (Who'd ever stock Suba's "Sao Paulo Confessions"?) The other stores with a bit deeper selection (Border's, Barnes & Noble) charge top-gouge $18.98 each for CDs...I can get the same on Amazon with free shipping for $12 to $15 depending on the sale. Mall stores are like the big box stores, but charge top gouge to cover their outrageous rent.

Then again, it's different in a big metro area, where real estate is expensive, and big box stores (Best Buy, Wal*Mart, Target, etc.) proliferate, and won't stock anything that doesn't fly off the shelves...and the stores with deeper stock (and the mall stores like FYE) make you pay for the privilege. Independent retailers are just about gone in our area...the few that were left 10 years ago have just about vanished. And the old days of hopping in the car on a Saturday morning and burning half a tank of gas hitting every record store in town are over, with gas hovering at $3/gallon again.

I wish the old retailers like Harmony House, Repeat The Beat, Dearborn Music (they're down to one store now), Sam's Jams and others were still around--those were where I spent my money in the old days, and could find what I wanted to listen to. Not today. As a music buyer, my local options are pretty much wiped out...and online is about the only way I can ever find the music I want.

 

[CherryStreet]

Couldn't have said it better myself Rudy!

Just take LA, Tower, GONE. Virgin, GONE. Thank goodness for Amoeba and their wonderful used platters.

 

[Captain Bacardi]

Fortunately, here in Austin we have a store called Waterloo Records. They're unique in that they don't split CDs into genres, but by artists in alphabetical order (although they do have a separate room for classical music). So I don't have to wonder if Herb's CDs are in the jazz section or the EZ section - I just go to the A's and there he is. I think it's cool doing it that way. Someone may be there to get an Allman Brothers album but then they see Herb Alpert and may say 'Oh yeah, I remember him' and take a look at what's available.

They also sell the new LPs (which are kind of pricey) and have turntable styluses as well. So I have no need to go to the Best Buys or WalMarts.



Capt. Bacardi

 

[Mike Blakesley]

Yeah, it's too bad that the biz has become so top-40 oriented but you gotta go where the $ is. If I wasn't a fan of the TJB we certainly wouldn't be stocking all those albums - we'd probably have DEF HITS and WHIPPED CREAM and that's it. Too bad.

 

[Rudy]

Couldn't have said it better myself Rudy!
Just take LA, Tower, GONE. Virgin, GONE.
Thank goodness for Amoeba and their
wonderful used platters.

We never had Virgin here (closest was Chicago), but when Tower first opened up in Ann Arbor, it was fantastic--I kept seeing the dollar signs flying out of my wallet. Thing is, after several years, some corporate changes came along, and their depth of catalog (which was their specialty) pretty much vanished, and they weren't much better than any other big box store. At the time they opened, I was living over an hour away, and I tried to make it there once every month or two. Naturally, when I lived only 20 minutes away, that's when it started going downhill...and I just quit going.

Now I remember there used to be a Discount Records down in Ann Arbor (which wasn't the same Discount Records that was part of the Musicland chain), and better yet, Schoolkids Records, who occupied four storefronts on E. Liberty St. (two were for their separate classical store). They even had their own record label at one point. They went under, then they returned and went "underground", now occupying the basement of a small storefront on State St. They used to have a lot of great titles there, including imports.

This is just getting sad.

 

[gameenjoyer]

Okay, first of all, Mike is right about some people just not wanting to shop online. I would know, since I am one of them, a point I know I've already beaten to death in the past but which is relevant to make clear the fact that stores carrying music is something that does keep the music business afloat in many ways. With music profits going down anyway, why would they shoot themselves in the foot by going exclusively online?

Regarding bonus tracks, I am certainly familiar with the concept. I know that, years ago, when CDs were new, the CD form of an album would sometimes have bonus tracks over the cassette to encourage people to use the new medium, and even now, yes, some stores have store-exclusive versions of some albums. It's a fact of life.

I agree, however, that is isn't fair to the consumer. Five years ago, if one had suggested Best Buy-exclusive tracks on an Alpert CD, I'd be throwing an absolute fit because the nearest Best Buys would have been in Des Moines or the Twin Cities metroplex (we're talking a two-hour drive). Now that Mason City has one, I would not protest so vehemently for personal reasons, but there are still areas of the country which do not have Best Buys, I'm sure.

"What about online purchasing?" you ask. Well, that's all well and good, but, as previous posters have pointed out, you pretty much have to know something exists in order to even know it's available online. Most people, and I'd bet even many Alpert fans, would have no idea that the new album even existed unless they lucked upon it in a store, and odds are that those fans would have no clue of a Best Buy-exclusive version if they found the album in an FYE or a Barnes and Noble.

I agree, therefore, that store-exclusive versions of an album are inherently unfair. If Concord wanted to release some of the tracks suggested by the topic creator, then, since the album has a release date in August now, I'm sure some of them could be added into the album itself without having to be on a bonus disc. Nobody here would complain about more material being included, I'm sure.

Anyway, that's my two cents on this subject. Take it as you will.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

I can vouch for the "people won't know about it if not for stores" concept. Just a few months ago, a guy was in our store looking at CDs and he bought 4 of the TJBs, saying 'I thought these weren't available anymore!'

 

[CherryStreet]

- "Five years ago, if one had suggested Best Buy-exclusive tracks on an Alpert CD, I'd be throwing an absolute fit because the nearest Best Buys would have been in Des Moines or the Twin Cities metroplex (we're talking a two-hour drive)."

Yikes. Still missing the point. ALL Best Buy CDs can be purchased online.
ALL Walmart CDs can be purchased online. ALL Barnes & Noble CD's can be purchased on line....etc

If someone is ignorant enough to think that the TJB Signature Series is no longer available because their favorite store is no longer stocking it, then they obviously have not been ONLINE.

Hey I love a good record store, take Amoeba here in LA & San Fran for example. But I am also lowering my "carbon footprint" when I don't fire up the convertible. And that also makes me feel good. And my wallet likes it also.

The bottom line is, if Concord does eventually offer "Bonus Tracks", I don't care if it is on a Japanese Version, Best Buy Exclusive, an Online Exclusive Download, or in a Box of "Count Chocula", I'm going to buy it! Because I'm a fan.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

Yikes. Still missing the point. ALL Best Buy CDs can be purchased online.
ALL Walmart CDs can be purchased online. ALL Barnes & Noble CD's can be purchased on line....etc

gameenjoyer is not "ignorant," he just prefers to not shop online as he stated in his post above (as well as many other posts).

 

[CherryStreet]

I can vouch for the "people won't know about it if not for stores" concept. Just a few months ago, a guy was in our store looking at CDs and he bought 4 of the TJBs, saying 'I thought these weren't available anymore!'

Still not getting it! Who ever said gameenjoyer was ignorant?!
I was talking about the guy who came into your store.

"If someone is ignorant enough to think that the TJB Signature Series is no longer available because their favorite store is no longer stocking it, then they obviously have not been ONLINE."

 

[gameenjoyer]

CherryStreet, you made your comment about online stuff immediately after quoting me as saying that the nearest Best Buy would have been two hours drive away for me a few years ago. It looked to Mike (and looks to me) like you were directly addressing me with that comment. Still, I'm not worried about it. I know I think differently regarding online purchasing than most of the people here do (indeed, than most people my age in the world do), but that's just me.

Do I think that the Signature Series is no longer available? No, I do not. Do I think they're no longer available in most music stores. Yes, I do. As of right now, I'm still missing one (the Christmas Album), and last December, I went up to Minneapolis to try to find it, to no avail, which suggests to me that stores' stocking of the Signature Series is ended. I'll still probably try again when the holiday season comes up this year.

As to your statement that you would buy the version with bonus tracks no matter what hoop you had to jump through to do it, I commend you for being such a big fan. You, however, have one advantage that many casual Alpert fans would not have. Your membership on this forum would give you access to information to know exactly where the bonus version was being retailed.

Not everybody who will buy the new Alpert album will be someone who is a member or even a reader of this forum or others like it. Many of them will be people who will just happen to notice it in their favorite music store and say "I know this guy, and he makes good music". Those people wouldn't have the luxury of knowing "I shouldn't buy it here because there's a version with bonus tracks at [random other store]." Those are the people who are treated unfairly when bonus tracks appear on one store's version of an album over others.

You need to realize that the best thing for Herb Alpert isn't to satisfy the few hundred of us that are on this forum. The best thing for him is to satisfy every fan that he has who will buy this album, whether they know it's being released in advance and pre-order it or whether they randomly come across it in a store and buy it. Releasing the same version to everybody means that everybody will be on an even playing field in that regard, that nobody will be deprived of anything because of a lack of knowledge.

 

[Harry]

Not everybody who will buy the new Alpert album will be someone who is a member or even a reader of this forum or others like it. Many of them will be people who will just happen to notice it in their favorite music store and say "I know this guy, and he makes good music". Those people wouldn't have the luxury of knowing "I shouldn't buy it here because there's a version with bonus tracks at [random other store]." Those are the people who are treated unfairly when bonus tracks appear on one store's version of an album over others.

I wouldn't consider it "unfair" treatment. An album is designed, filled with music, and configured by the artist and record company as a "whole". Any one who buys that album, as it's designed, gets that "whole" package.

A bonus track or two included on one version of that album is not to be looked on as a "missing piece" from the masses' copies albums, rather as, just what it is - a bonus. It's an incentive to attract a few more dedicated fans to a particular store or website.

Those who blithely enter a store and see the "I know this guy" Herb Alpert title, are likely not the super-dedicated fan who would even care about an extra track available down the street (or in the next town 100 miles away). The album that they get - as far as they're concerned - is complete.

Fans in the Beatles' world are going through that scenario this very week. LET IT ROLL: SONGS BY GEORGE HARRISON was released this week worldwide. It includes 19 tracks, compiled by Olivia and Dhani Harrison, remastered by Giles Martin, and on sale most everywhere. The bonus "hook", if you will, comes from iTunes. Their version of the album - if you purchase the WHOLE album - comes with an available bonus track, an early demo of George Harrison playing the song "Isn't It A Pity". Fans believe it to be a Beatles-era demo recorded in 1969 for possible inclusion in the GET BACK project that later turned out to be the LET IT BE album.

Bottom line is that NO version of the CD is known to include this track, and the only way to get it is to purchase the whole album from iTunes as a download. So anyone who wants the bonus track AND a CD will have to buy the album twice.

Is this fair? On the surface it may seem a bit unfair - BUT, the album was designed as a 19-track entity, which you can get anywhere. If you want the little extra goody, you have to go through iTunes. It's just the way of the world these days.

Harry

 

[Rudy]

What really galled a lot of us was when a Brian Setzer Orchestra Xmas CD had one different bonus track for each store: Target had one, Wal*Mart another, etc. I ended up finding a 5-song Japanese EP that had the single "Luck Be A Lady", with all four of the Xmas bonus tracks on it.

I always feel shortchanged if I buy a "regular" release and it's missing a track like that...but on the other hand, sometimes the bonus tracks are throaways anyway, so it helps to find out exactly what you're missing before fretting over it.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

The record companies ENCOURAGE bootlegging with that dumb practice of exclusives. I was sorely tempted to illegally-download the last Eagles album just because I refuse to shop in Wal-Mart, but I still sort of wanted to hear it; but I got over that feeling and have not heard it yet as of today.

Do I think they're no longer available in most music stores. Yes, I do.

The operative word is "available." Any store worth its salt will be able to order anything you want as long as it's still in print. Whether they're stocking it is irrelevant. Since sales are down, we're not stocking as much new stuff as we used to, with the result that about a third of our sales these days are special orders for "uber-fans" of this group or that singer.

 

[Dave]

C'mon "going to a store" plays a vital role in seeing the product (and sometimes hearing it) before you buy it... And of course enjoying it right away, too, without the wait...

I bought the Time/Life 3 CD Mac Davis set for the price of ONE CD at my local retailer (to whom I'd said "You either sold this 10-minutes after I walked away from it, or I'm the only one who cares about it!") and of course saw it going much higher (what you'd expect to pay for 3 CD's) Online...

So no way is advantageous over the other; if I can't find it near me, within reasonable amount of driving distance, then I order Online...


Dave

--Who now working in retail (And you GUESS who it is I'm working for in Lawn & Garden!) has to deal w/ customers asking about stuff over the phone, (Such as what colors of patio furniture cushions we carry) who could easily come in as they will have to do when they want to buy it, anyway...

 

[A&Mguyfromwayback]

I miss real record stores for the reason I'm nostalgic about radio and newspapers (the LA TImes shrinks daily) - it exposed you to new sounds, new things, new ideas that you never would have searched for online because you didn't know they existed....

 

[Rudy]

I miss real record stores for the reason I'm nostalgic about radio and newspapers (the LA TImes shrinks daily) - it exposed you to new sounds, new things, new ideas that you never would have searched for online because you didn't know they existed....

I used to spend a couple of hours at one (now defunct) local record store, hanging out in the jazz room part of the time, just listening to new releases that had come in. The store had a rule--no requests. So that meant a loyal customer like me got requests played anyway. Just before Sarah Vaughan's album Brazilian Romance was released, they had a promo cassette on hand, and played me the entire second side while I browsed the bins. "How's that new album by Sarah Vaughan?" "Here, I'll play it for you!"

This same store once held aside a used copy of a Moondog record for me, since they'd never heard of him (although they knew nearly everything else), and I was the only one to ever come in and special order any of his albums (this was his self-titled 1969 album on Columbia). They figured I'd want it, or at least offer it to me before putting it out on the floor. So of course, I bought it.

Nostalgic? You bet. I can't think of one single store in the area today that would do this. The only "thrill of the hunt" these days comes from used record shops, looking in bin after bin of LPs. CDs don't do much for me, although I have a want list that I still check against when I visit one of those shops.

 

[TonyCurrie]

Indeed I can remember the thrill of finding a wee gem in a dumper bin. Perhaps an album I didn't know existed by a favourite artiste. Or a deleted single that I thought I'd lost the chance to buy. Or a rare track on a charity compilation album. (I remember finding "Cops & Robbers" on a budget priced charity album)

Then there was the fun of being intrigued by an LP by a previously unknown act. I well remember buying "The Mason Williams Ear Show" purely on the strength of the sleeve notes. Which in those days you could read before buying!! It led to a lifelong love of Mason's music.

All these simple pleasures taken away from us when the local record stores close. Sad days.

 

[Captain Bacardi]

I have many of my jazz albums by just browsing through the local record stores at the time. Sometimes the LP cover art would visually grab me and make me curious as to what it was. Looking at the personnel on the back of a jazz album was always a determining factor for me, especially when I would see a trombonist included (I wonder if this guy is any good - let's find out). That's why I like going to record shows to get that old feeling again, although sometimes dealing with ridiculous prices takes the thrill away.



Capt. Bacardi