Basket Case Church Choir Wild
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Jeff
Well-Known Member
Do these songs exist at all? I've heard it rumoured that they are quite the curiousities pertaining to style and content. Out of all of us around here someone must have a detail of some sort. Fact or Fiction? For some reason I don't think that RC would like to filter "solo" questions. Particularly the ones that He or Phil or maybe even Karen chose to closet.
This is an old topic yet it remains one of the burning questions. Perhaps new members with fresh insight may provide a glimpse into the unknown.
I wonder if I/We will ever be satisfied with our present offerings? I would hope that Richard see us a devotee's rather than a flock of buzzards.
Jeff
This is an old topic yet it remains one of the burning questions. Perhaps new members with fresh insight may provide a glimpse into the unknown.
I wonder if I/We will ever be satisfied with our present offerings? I would hope that Richard see us a devotee's rather than a flock of buzzards.
Jeff
You know Jeff I understand where
you are coming from completely.
I don't know why I feel the need
to know each and every detail
about any material that Richard
has decided not to release to
the public. I can see how my
curiosity is border line obsessive
and I should pay more respect to
the choices Richard has made over
the years concerning his music.
I appologize if I have crossed
the line. I have loved the Carpenters since the first A&M hit
and cried and mourned over the loss
of Karen in 1983. They have and will always be the greatest performers I have ever known and I
treasure every song that they have
given us. Thank you for reminding
me to be a more gracious fan, rather than a crazed Bloodhound who
goes digging up the whole yard to
find one bone.
JIM
you are coming from completely.
I don't know why I feel the need
to know each and every detail
about any material that Richard
has decided not to release to
the public. I can see how my
curiosity is border line obsessive
and I should pay more respect to
the choices Richard has made over
the years concerning his music.
I appologize if I have crossed
the line. I have loved the Carpenters since the first A&M hit
and cried and mourned over the loss
of Karen in 1983. They have and will always be the greatest performers I have ever known and I
treasure every song that they have
given us. Thank you for reminding
me to be a more gracious fan, rather than a crazed Bloodhound who
goes digging up the whole yard to
find one bone.
JIM
I'm not convinced that these are actual songs, but rather a label on a tape. Perhaps "Church Choir Wild" has something to do with an unfinished backing track. Perhaps "Basket Case" was labeled as such to a lead or back track that was kept but was totally unusable - as in the performer or performers were, at the time, a 'basket case.'
Sometimes a performer, in a studio, will record something, and for one reason or another it's kept and labeled. Sometimes it's not labeled or mislabeled, too, which can lead to finds like "Trying To Get The Feeling Again."
I, too, tend to prefer to be grateful for what we have, and not constantly complaining about what we don't. Glass half full instead of half empty kind of thing...
Harry
Sometimes a performer, in a studio, will record something, and for one reason or another it's kept and labeled. Sometimes it's not labeled or mislabeled, too, which can lead to finds like "Trying To Get The Feeling Again."
I, too, tend to prefer to be grateful for what we have, and not constantly complaining about what we don't. Glass half full instead of half empty kind of thing...
Harry
Rick-An Ordinary Fool
Well-Known Member
The process of how these new finds appear always fascinate me. What strange titles, Basket Case & Church Choir. What on earth would these lyrics have been like? 
I think "Interpretations" remains one of my all time favorite Cd's I remember when I first opened it & came across "trying to get" track, I read Richards notes on this track at least a dozen time (obessive) well...yeah!!
Here is a track recorded in Jan 75 during Horizons sessions found on the multi-track tape for Only Yesterday. (I'm assuming this was the Karaoke track of Only Yesterday?) Thank God for the Japanese Karaoke CD!!! Stands up & claps loudly!!!
This brings me somewhat back to an old topic here. So this lost track was stuck on a master tape, is this like a reel tape that was suppose to hold just one track (Only Yesterday?) or was this the master tape for all the sessions from Horizon that were recorded. I'm assuming there separate tapes. If it is a tape of just the karaoke track of Only Yesterday, then even back in 75 Richard knew he would eventually release a karaoke version? Or was it much later that he made Karaoke mixes from original tape sources? and that is how he found it?
I would have to imagine the look on Richard's face when he stumbled upon this lost track. It would then lead me to believe that he searched with a fine tooth comb every master tape or reel there was left in his collection. To see if anything else was workable.
...who never lost the feeling....
n.p. Trying to Get the Feeling Again
I think "Interpretations" remains one of my all time favorite Cd's I remember when I first opened it & came across "trying to get" track, I read Richards notes on this track at least a dozen time (obessive) well...yeah!!
Here is a track recorded in Jan 75 during Horizons sessions found on the multi-track tape for Only Yesterday. (I'm assuming this was the Karaoke track of Only Yesterday?) Thank God for the Japanese Karaoke CD!!! Stands up & claps loudly!!!
This brings me somewhat back to an old topic here. So this lost track was stuck on a master tape, is this like a reel tape that was suppose to hold just one track (Only Yesterday?) or was this the master tape for all the sessions from Horizon that were recorded. I'm assuming there separate tapes. If it is a tape of just the karaoke track of Only Yesterday, then even back in 75 Richard knew he would eventually release a karaoke version? Or was it much later that he made Karaoke mixes from original tape sources? and that is how he found it?
I would have to imagine the look on Richard's face when he stumbled upon this lost track. It would then lead me to believe that he searched with a fine tooth comb every master tape or reel there was left in his collection. To see if anything else was workable.
...who never lost the feeling....
n.p. Trying to Get the Feeling Again
Large reels of tape can hold quite a bit of stuff -whole albums' worth of material, or as little as one song or just one track for a recording. It's all in how it was used.
Knowing what we know about the karaoke process, I'm sure there aren't any recordings of Carpenters stuff done specifically for 'karaoke'. That fad began later, with the tendency being to 'eliminate' the lead vocal from the recording. Thus, when Richard says that he found "Trying To Get The Feeling Again" on the tape with "Only Yesterday" while preparing the karaoke mixes, all he was referring to was that probably it was on the unmixed tape with that song - unlabelled.
That's the key, here - unlabelled. After however many days' work they spent on getting "Only Yesterday" just so, at some point, possibly to take a break from overworking on one recording, they began fooling around with "Trying To Get The Feeling Again" with Karen singing a work lead to see if it worked. It just happened to come as the tape for "Only Yesterday" was already threaded on the recorder. Richard had remembered that they DID it, he just wasn't sure WHERE it ended up, or even if it was saved.
Consider that you might have a large collection of VHS tapes in your video library. Somewhere you THINK you recorded some half-hour TV show at the end of a short movie somewhere, but because you didn't label it, you can't find it. The prospect of looking through every tape in a large library can be daunting if there are no clues as to where it was originally recorded, or even if it actually WAS saved.
Thus Richard thought it was 'lost' for years.
Harry
...enjoying the new TV series called LOST, online...
Knowing what we know about the karaoke process, I'm sure there aren't any recordings of Carpenters stuff done specifically for 'karaoke'. That fad began later, with the tendency being to 'eliminate' the lead vocal from the recording. Thus, when Richard says that he found "Trying To Get The Feeling Again" on the tape with "Only Yesterday" while preparing the karaoke mixes, all he was referring to was that probably it was on the unmixed tape with that song - unlabelled.
That's the key, here - unlabelled. After however many days' work they spent on getting "Only Yesterday" just so, at some point, possibly to take a break from overworking on one recording, they began fooling around with "Trying To Get The Feeling Again" with Karen singing a work lead to see if it worked. It just happened to come as the tape for "Only Yesterday" was already threaded on the recorder. Richard had remembered that they DID it, he just wasn't sure WHERE it ended up, or even if it was saved.
Consider that you might have a large collection of VHS tapes in your video library. Somewhere you THINK you recorded some half-hour TV show at the end of a short movie somewhere, but because you didn't label it, you can't find it. The prospect of looking through every tape in a large library can be daunting if there are no clues as to where it was originally recorded, or even if it actually WAS saved.
Thus Richard thought it was 'lost' for years.
Harry
...enjoying the new TV series called LOST, online...
Rick-An Ordinary Fool
Well-Known Member
Harry may well be correct re : uncompleted tracks from the solo sessions that reside in A&M vaults and actually are other song rough demos / work leads ... 
Really need Phil Ramone to confirm whether these titles are just tape track names rather than actual song titles...
Certainly Karen & Ramone rehearsed other songs before officially commencing recording album in New York ....other songs in various states are within Ramone's archives ...whether any could be completed / mixed etc for a future release is the mystery question ....
Peter
Really need Phil Ramone to confirm whether these titles are just tape track names rather than actual song titles...
Certainly Karen & Ramone rehearsed other songs before officially commencing recording album in New York ....other songs in various states are within Ramone's archives ...whether any could be completed / mixed etc for a future release is the mystery question ....
Peter
bluebird1111
Member
newvillefan
I Know My First Name Is Stephen
Jeff
I'm wondering whether the rights to the tracks were handed back to A&M when the project was aborted. If Phil had the rights to them, he could have released them or done what he wanted with them long before now.
Since Richard kept a lid on them for 20 years before giving in to fans' demands, I'd say the rights may now belong to him and/or his label.
Stephen
I'm wondering whether the rights to the tracks were handed back to A&M when the project was aborted. If Phil had the rights to them, he could have released them or done what he wanted with them long before now.
Since Richard kept a lid on them for 20 years before giving in to fans' demands, I'd say the rights may now belong to him and/or his label.
Stephen
I'm wondering whether the rights to the tracks were handed back to A&M when the project was aborted. If Phil had the rights to them, he could have released them or done what he wanted with them long before now.
Since Richard kept a lid on them for 20 years before giving in to fans' demands, I'd say the rights may now belong to him and/or his label.
Stephen[/quote]
A&M created , co-ordinated & ultimately cancelled Karen's always mysterious solo album project ....all the rights remain with A&M or Universal as the current owners for all the studio tracks recorded by Karen & Ramone
One key question is do both Karen (now under Richard's ownership...) & Richard have similar solo contract rights of final release & veto as with Carpenters recordings that Richard negotiated with Alpert & Moss in 1976....?
Basically Richard has to approve all Carpenters releases under their A&M contracts ...this ensures quality control and artistic control and has served Carpenters remarkably well over last 28 years...if Richard is happy with a possible new project , special edition and numerous compiliations ...ahead these releases proceed ....
Richard invoked these rights over the recent As Time Goes By contract dispute ; Universal wanted to release a reduced 12 track set for USA and other non-Asian markets ...Richard refused to agree to this change ...ultimately Richard gained what he wanted ...although given the lack of support / promotion by Universal for ATGB ...this is their rather self defeating response ...after all sales / new release awareness is crucial to their continuing success / profits ....
So back to Karen's unissued solo tracks ...Richard as controller of her estate would have to agree to these tracks being released and Phil Ramone as Producer is essential for completion / mixing / mastering final music for any further solo tracks...above all Universal / A&M have to have some interest in any future Karen solo music being issued and sadly at present ...that level of support is barely above zero ....
Perhaps ironically Richard -with no creative / musical input to Karen's solo project -will have to complete Something Missing song that he is interested in to kickstart any more solo project tracks being finally released ...
Peter
Since Richard kept a lid on them for 20 years before giving in to fans' demands, I'd say the rights may now belong to him and/or his label.
Stephen[/quote]
A&M created , co-ordinated & ultimately cancelled Karen's always mysterious solo album project ....all the rights remain with A&M or Universal as the current owners for all the studio tracks recorded by Karen & Ramone
One key question is do both Karen (now under Richard's ownership...) & Richard have similar solo contract rights of final release & veto as with Carpenters recordings that Richard negotiated with Alpert & Moss in 1976....?
Basically Richard has to approve all Carpenters releases under their A&M contracts ...this ensures quality control and artistic control and has served Carpenters remarkably well over last 28 years...if Richard is happy with a possible new project , special edition and numerous compiliations ...ahead these releases proceed ....
Richard invoked these rights over the recent As Time Goes By contract dispute ; Universal wanted to release a reduced 12 track set for USA and other non-Asian markets ...Richard refused to agree to this change ...ultimately Richard gained what he wanted ...although given the lack of support / promotion by Universal for ATGB ...this is their rather self defeating response ...after all sales / new release awareness is crucial to their continuing success / profits ....
So back to Karen's unissued solo tracks ...Richard as controller of her estate would have to agree to these tracks being released and Phil Ramone as Producer is essential for completion / mixing / mastering final music for any further solo tracks...above all Universal / A&M have to have some interest in any future Karen solo music being issued and sadly at present ...that level of support is barely above zero ....
Perhaps ironically Richard -with no creative / musical input to Karen's solo project -will have to complete Something Missing song that he is interested in to kickstart any more solo project tracks being finally released ...
Peter
Rick-An Ordinary Fool
Well-Known Member
Peter interesting ideas.
I guess it could go both ways...I always thought that Phil always owned the rights to all the solo sesssion tracks. I just figured that he honored Richard's & A & M 's request to not ever release them. But I figured he still had full control over them. I can truly understand why Phil would not want to push them, I always thought he was just respecting the family in leaving all these tracks just alone...untouched.
But then....I think that there became too much pressure not to release them. I mean after all...the fan club got letters each month about how Karen was working on these solo tracks...so it wasn't like this was all new stuff...the fans knew for along time that these tracks existed for years. (I've read the old newsletters on the web) I was not a member of the club.
I agree with the above posts that I wish there was a way to communicate with Phil to at least just ask him if he would ever consider releasing the remaining unfinshed tracks on a final project of Karen's...The Lost Recordings of Karen Carpenter....
I bet there are other tracks that Karen read...but we have never heard them...possibly on reel tapes not yet reviewed since 79?
I guess it could go both ways...I always thought that Phil always owned the rights to all the solo sesssion tracks. I just figured that he honored Richard's & A & M 's request to not ever release them. But I figured he still had full control over them. I can truly understand why Phil would not want to push them, I always thought he was just respecting the family in leaving all these tracks just alone...untouched.
But then....I think that there became too much pressure not to release them. I mean after all...the fan club got letters each month about how Karen was working on these solo tracks...so it wasn't like this was all new stuff...the fans knew for along time that these tracks existed for years. (I've read the old newsletters on the web) I was not a member of the club.
I agree with the above posts that I wish there was a way to communicate with Phil to at least just ask him if he would ever consider releasing the remaining unfinshed tracks on a final project of Karen's...The Lost Recordings of Karen Carpenter....
I bet there are other tracks that Karen read...but we have never heard them...possibly on reel tapes not yet reviewed since 79?
Dave
Well-Known Member
There is actually a song, "Basket-Case", which I'm sure was not Karen & Richard's, but done by none other than Green Day at the following link below:
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/greenday/basketcase.html
Though I still haven't yet, found any songs called "Church-Choir, Wild"...
Dave
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/greenday/basketcase.html
Though I still haven't yet, found any songs called "Church-Choir, Wild"...
Dave
Rick-An Ordinary Fool
Well-Known Member
Dave
Well-Known Member
OK, I know, sent up a real "shocker"... :scared: Read the lyrics again, and like I said it's very unlikely it would be a "Carpenters" song. Just neat to compare what is "Alternative" now, compared to "Alternative" then...
Hopefully another search for either or BOTH will yield something more "fruitful"...
Dave
...a bit of a "basket-case", myself...
...er, just kidding...
Hopefully another search for either or BOTH will yield something more "fruitful"...
Dave
...a bit of a "basket-case", myself...
...er, just kidding... - Status
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