Component CD Recorder

[jww]

Can anyone recommend a component-style CD recorder? I am planning to run the turntable into it, rather than run the turntable to the tape deck as it is currently to allow for lp to disc conversions. Neil already addressed this somewhat under a different subject posting, but not all may have read that one.

I don't think any of the recorders under $300 or so will allow me to "clean-up" the recordings, but will any recorder allow this? I know if you were to run it through a computer, this might be feasable, but on a regular stereo system I am unsure.

Any tips you all throw my way will be appreciated. J- ...still awake, still dreaming...

 

[Harry]

J,

Component CD recorders that hook up to your stereo system, by themselves do not offer any kind of noise removal that I'm aware of. I have one of the earliest Philips CD recorders and all I can do is run straight audio from the LP, tape, DVD, whatever, into it. Whatever goes in, comes out the same way. So it's not good for doing any kind of cleanup work on noisy LPs or tapes. But it's great for dubbing those clean LPs to CD. I've never been one to mind an occasional pop or click, so having the stereo component recorder has been great for me. One other minor caveat about these is that the discs that you use have to have either the word "Audio" or "Music" on them, and these are just a tad more expensive than the cheaper computer-only discs. Fundamentally, these discs are identical, but there's a special code on the "Music" discs to tell the home recorder that it's OK to record. It won't use the computer discs (unless you have a unit like mine, which is yet another story!).

That said, there is still nothing to prevent a component CD recorder owner from using his computer and software to clean up some audio, and then use the recorder to "burn" the results to CD using the home recorder connected to the computer. The limits here are how good your sound card is at not introducing any of its own noise. For me, it also involves unplugging the unit from the stereo connections and shlepping it near the computer (which is in another room). Do-able, but a hassle.

I've been happy with the component recorder, as it's been particularly good at getting those old LPs onto CD. As I said, a click or pop on a record has never really bothered me before, as long as it's not too bad, so it's been great for me. And even with clean-up software, it's better to start with as noise-free a source as you can, so you'd still be advised to find the cleanest LPs you can.

Others here have gone the computer route. I've read about some of their exploits here, and can tell you that I'm happy with the much-less-complicated home recorder. That's not to say that their results are not worth it. Once you get the hang of it apparently, it can produce some remarkable audio CDs. The WARM LP, "cleaned-up" by another regular on computer, sounds remarkable. A&M/Universal themselves would be hard-pressed to top it in sound quality. (If only they'd TRY!)

I suppose that time-pressure is the factor for me. Playing an LP into a component CD recorder takes exactly as long as the album takes to play to get a CD recording of it. Doing it on the computer involves not only that step, but several clean-up steps in between before the final burn process.

If something happened to my home recorder, I wouldn't hesitate for a minute to replace it with another one. And furthermore, if my computer were equipped with a CD burner (a distinct possiblity as newer computers are often configured with them), I don't know how much I'd use it for audio applications. Perhaps it would serve to add to my arsenal, giving me a way of cleaning up the really bad LPs that I'd want to dub.

Harry
...hopefully back to semi-normal, online...

 

[Rudy]

The component CD recorders are generally a good lot: Philips has some models now with dual CD drives--one for playback, one for recording. (And it can copy at 2x speeds.) Pioneer also makes recorders...and I've had good luck with Pioneer players in general. They're under $300 now, if i remember.

Wanted to second, and add to, what Harry mentioned, though--to do it *right* through a computer, it requires a substantial investment in hardware and software, and more work to edit the sound files before committing them to CD. Standard lower-end sound cards are not very good (even worse if they're embedded on the motherboard)...and the computer is a hostile, noisy environment to be running audio cables around. My first LP dub to CD was through an Ensoniq sound card...and the quality is FM radio at best. Here's what you'd be paying for:

CD-RW drive: count on $80-$100 for a decent one.

Sound card: at the very least, something on the order of a Sound Blaster Audigy (although I have the Platinum, and think it's seriously overrated)...or better yet, a semi-pro card that gets clean audio onto your hard drive (which would probably run anywhere from $200 to $500 depending on model and features).

Editing software: you'd need something that edits WAV files, and has filtering to clean up the LPs. I've seen these bundled with CD recording software like Nero, but those aren't good for much of anything. (An LP-cleaning "filter" that has no adjustments is totally useless!!) You'd need something like Sound Forge, with the noise-reduction plug-in.

CD recording software: copying straight WAV files to a CD isn't a problem with programs like Roxio Easy CD Creator or Nero, but neither one are perfect. I honestly don't know of any good audio CD burning software...ever since CD Architect was discontinued, I haven't seen anything like it!

You could easily spend more than the cost of a computer setting up your own editing system. If your LPs are worth that much, and having them on CDs is that important, it's worth the price. Otherwise, it's a waste of anyone's time to do a mediocre job and just use whatever is available on the computer.

One "toy store" to go browsing in: http://www.sbfilmaudio.com.

As far as sound quality, using one of the audio component CD recorders, even with a couple of pops and clicks, beats the sound from a standard computer sound card by a long shot!

A couple of decades ago, there WERE a couple of very expensive audio components that would help clean up the audio (I'm thinking they may have been made by Burwin), but any type of analog filtering is going to take away from the sound. I have a couple of less expensive outboard devices I used to use when making cassettes that removed scratches and hiss, but they each had their own way of degrading the sound. The "hiss" reduction was via an adjustable DNR unit, which is very audible. The click removal was via an SAE Impulse Noise Reduction unit--it clips off percussive sounds if set too high, but for most purposes, it does a good job. One other processor I used was a dbx dynamic range expander. I used it more as a "noise gate", adjusting it up and down at the beginning and end of tracks to get rid of some of the noise. I don't even use these for recording anymore--occasionally for playback only.

-= N =-

 

[jww]

Harry and Neil, you guys are the greatest As I mentioned on another post (those of you who read my posts faithfully, thanks!), I have got very good copys of the lps of both Sergio and TJB, through Primal Roots and Coney Island, respectively. My tapes of these with Dolby B sound very good in the car, but I was curious as what was involved in computer vs. component recorders. Whew!! As you both said, I think I will be just FINE with a component, as time/money/effort is a considerable consideration with a wife and six kids (six!!?? ) My tapes are passable, but to be able to randomly find tracks and shuffle etc. would be wonderful. Thanks for taking the time to answer me and put up with my questions.... JW-
...not yet sleeping, but should be...

 

[jww]

Primarily to Harry, since we have talked about this, but to all my fellow A&M friends--
I have checked several websites on Phillips CD recorders, especially models 778 and 800 which Best Buy/Circuit City carry, but the reviews of these and other Phillip recorders leaves me a bit worried. The majority seem to have had problems with Phillips recorders, from freezing up mid-burn to not recognizing discs to que up to total death of machine, varying from 1 month in to several months. Considering a Sony or TDK, but interested in others opinions, if any has or knows someone. Just don't want to blow 300+ and then have it back to the shop in a few weeks, especially with the unloading of cabinet and set up involved in wiring, moving stuff, cleaning/dusting....etc... Thanks for any light shed on this...

J- ...dreaming/waiting/worrying online...

 

[Rudy]

I know Harry and the Captain both own Philips recorders, and haven't heard anything bad about them. In fact, there is a trick on those older recorders that lets someone record a CD using computer CD-R blanks, vs. the "audio" blanks.

FWIW, I have a Magnavox (a Philips company) CD changer from 1990 that has outlived nearly a half-dozen Sony units that I've had to discard over the past decade (three rarely-used Discman portables, a boom box, a CD/Laserdisc player, and a home deck and an in-dash that both barely will play a CD anymore). So you would never get a Sony recommendation out of yours truly!

Philips and Sony co-developed the CD. Philips created the mechanical portion, and Sony worked with the data and error-correction methodology. IIRC, they joined forces after working on two separate, incompatible systems. Which is good, or we would have had another battle not unlike VHS/Beta, DAT/DCC, LD/CED and DVD/Divx.

TDK? They're not in the component manufacturing business as far as I know, so they're most likely branding someone else's player. Would be interesting to find out who makes it for them.

Pioneer's units have held up well for me so far. I have an ancient Laserdisc player that still works (dating back to the early-mid 80's), a couple of newer Laserdisc players (DVL-700 and CLD-D406), and a 100-CD changer.

As always, your mileage may vary.

I'm more interested in a recordable DVD component. When the price comes way down in a few years, I may take the plunge. (Provided the industry doesn't kill it off!)

-= N =-