Favorite musical tribute to Karen by Richard?

[Without A Song]

I've never done a poll here before so apologies if I don't get this quite right. I've heard both of these songs recently and thought this would be a good question for the forum. While the songs differ in approach, one with vocals, one without, I find they both have a pleasant sense of wistfulness in them, acknowledging the sadness of Karen's absence while also paying tribute to her beautiful spirit, which will last forever because that's how long folks will continue to marvel at her unforgettable voice.

 

[Without A Song]

It was a tough choice for me but ultimately my preference for vocals won out. Plus I consider "When Time Was All We Had" Richard's best lead vocal on "Time," followed closely by "Who Do You Love." Having Herb Alpert playing trumpet on the track doesn't hurt either!

One thing I've always wondered about when it comes to this song is why there was no acknowledgement of it in Paul Grein's review of "Time" in the Los Angeles Times when the album came out in 1987. It was given two stars, one each presumably for the songs Dionne Warwick and Dusty Springfield performed lead vocals. Paul didn't think Richard had what it took to be a lead singer. No quarrel with that opinion, I know plenty of people here share it. I don't see though how you could do a proper review of the album without acknowledging Richard's first musical tribute to Karen. My guess then and now is that Paul did mention it but that part was cut for space. I used to work in newspapers and it pained me when some really interesting detail in a story was cut for space purposes. Anyway, just curious.

 

[Jack A.]

I’ve tried to learn “Karen’s Theme” on piano before. It’s a nicely written piece. To me that one just gives off more of the “tribute to a lost loved one” feel. WTWAWH is still decent, though - my only issue with that one is that just Richard overdubbed a bunch of times doesn’t sound as good as both of them together (not that he had a choice, though, obviously).

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

I hate to be that guy but I'll voice what others are likely thinking. Honestly, neither one. "When Time..." is hobbled a bit by Richard's singing but that's not the biggest problem. The biggest issue is Pamela Oland's Hallmark-ian lyric. She's worked on other songs by other artists too and I'm just not a fan of her lyrics. They strain for poetry and just come up being corny "That's the Way I Feel About It" is truly awful. I feel bad for Scott having to put this nonsense over. No wonder his enthusiasm sounded utterly forced. Richard's vocal arrangement nearly gets this over anyway though. If it just had a better lyric, I'd even be okay with Richard singing it. Besides, a Karen tribute needed a John Bettis lyric. He was the only one who should have written it. If he was unwilling or not ready to do that, Richard should have gone without IMHO.

"Karen's Theme" is muzak - pleasant but muzak. Not much else to say, really.

IMHO, neither of them are good enough to have a preference.

Ed

 

[Geographer]

...The biggest issue is Pamela Oland's Hallmark-ian lyric. She's worked on other songs by other artists too and I'm just not a fan of her lyrics. They strain for poetry and just come up being corny "That's the Way I Feel About It" is truly awful. I feel bad for Scott having to put this nonsense over. No wonder his enthusiasm sounded utterly forced. Richard's vocal arrangement nearly gets this over anyway though. If it just had a better lyric, I'd even be okay with Richard singing it. Besides, a Karen tribute needed a John Bettis lyric. He was the only one who should have written it. If he was unwilling or not ready to do that, Richard should have gone without IMHO.

Yes! This! I, too, have always thought PO's lyrics were not a good "fit" for Richard's melodies and quite "clunky," in my opinion. I had to listen several times to "Something In Your Eyes" before I could figure out what the heck the song was about. Don't get me wrong, I really like that song, A LOT, but it doesn't have the clarity that John Bettis' lyrics always had. Richard's arrangement of it, though...splendid!!

 

[Mark-T]

Besides, a Karen tribute needed a John Bettis lyric. He was the only one who should have written it.

Brilliant observation! I'm surprised that hadn't been mentioned before.

 

[JohnFB]

I hate to be that guy but I'll voice what others are likely thinking...

No you don't - you relish being that guy...

Honestly, neither one. "When Time..." is hobbled a bit by Richard's singing but that's not the biggest problem. The biggest issue is Pamela Oland's Hallmark-ian lyric... If it just had a better lyric, I'd even be okay with Richard singing it.

I agree the lyrics are trite & strained (except "Your voice will be the sweetest sound I'll ever hear", which is spot on & my exact feeling every time I hear her sing). But, let's face cold, hard reality - Richard's voice more than "hobbles" the song, it destroys any chance it still had to be decent, and no lyric, no matter how sophisticated, will ever salvage his singing...

Besides, a Karen tribute needed a John Bettis lyric. He was the only one who should have written it. If he was unwilling or not ready to do that, Richard should have gone without IMHO.

Exactly - which reminds me of how John's article about Karen is the only good one in the Legacy book - the short chapter concerning her was all about the anorexia problem and should have been dumped into the appendix section...

"Karen's Theme" is muzak - pleasant but muzak. Not much else to say, really.

I like this, but it could have been extended and developed better...

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

No you don't - you relish being that guy...

I just have to keep it real. LOL!!!

I agree the lyrics are trite & strained (except "Your voice will be the sweetest sound I'll ever hear", which is spot on & my exact feeling every time I hear her sing). But, let's face cold, hard reality - Richard's voice more than "hobbles" the song, it destroys any chance it still had to be decent, and no lyric, no matter how sophisticated, will ever salvage his singing...

I honestly don't think his voice is the biggest issue. Pamela's lyric is just that bad. The only one fit for the job of a Karen tribute from Richard was John Bettis. Can you imagine what John could have come up with? I'm not so bothered by Richard singing it given the subject matter; I'm really mainly bothered by that lyric.

Exactly - which reminds me of how John's article about Karen is the only good one in the Legacy book - the short chapter concerning her was all about the anorexia problem and should have been dumped into the appendix section...


I like this, but it could have been extended and developed better...

It's a pleasant orchestral piece that works as background music which, ironically, is basically what it was on the "Karen Carpenter Story."

Ed

 

[Harry]

As I just stated in another thread, lyrics are virtually meaningless to me and are the least important part of a song. But that's apparently just me. As for these two songs, I'd pick the one on Richard's TIME album. "Karen's Theme" doesn't seem to go anywhere and isn't memorable at all.

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

As I just stated in another thread, lyrics are virtually meaningless to me and are the least important part of a song. But that's apparently just me. As for these two songs, I'd pick the one on Richard's TIME album. "Karen's Theme" doesn't seem to go anywhere and isn't memorable at all.

Under ordinary circumstances, I agree with you. In this case though, "When Time..." was intended as an explicit tribute to his sister. As such, the lyric carries more weight here than some ordinary love song. Pamela hadn't worked with Carpenters prior to Richard's solo album so she really had no business writing lyrics about someone she never worked with. The proof is how bad the failure is IMHO. It's all platitude and banal sentiment; nothing connects. It could have been about anyone who's passed away.

Ed

 

[kprather]

So why didn't John Bettis write for "Time"? Too busy?

Edit: I know Bettis wrote "In Love Alone," which I believe was written for VOTH.

 

[Without A Song]

He did. He co-wrote "I'm Still Not Over You" with Richard. It's the last song on the album and a great way to end it!

 

[JohnFB]

As I just stated in another thread, lyrics are virtually meaningless to me and are the least important part of a song. But that's apparently just me...

But, a good song is a combination of clever, meaningful lyrics with a lovely, appealing melody - it's highly literate poetry set to beautiful music.

It's, of course, possible to have a catchy melody without any words at all, but if one wants to hear Karen sing the song it's probably preferable to give her some significant lyrics to relate, rather than just having her serve as another instrument mouthing a series of ohs and ahs...

She could have, for instance, hummed her way through the song "I Need To Be in Love" and it would have been nice to hear her accompany the orchestra in the presentation of the melody. But, the lyrics are some of John Bettis' best, and how much more pleasantly delightful is the overall musical experience listening to Karen sing them and convey the thoughts and emotions they create. When one hears her sing "I know I ask perfection of a quite imperfect world, and fool enough to think that's what I'll find" it's much more than just her beautiful voice one is hearing - it's the truth about so many relationships in the real world. The lyrics make the whole thing a profound experience.

 

[kprather]

He did. He co-wrote "I'm Still Not Over You" with Richard. It's the last song on the album and a great way to end it!

Shame on me for believing the Wikipedia. Still my question stands. Only two of the ten songs? And not the Karen tribute? If I was Richard, I'd have tried to tap John for all the songs.

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

Shame on me for believing the Wikipedia. Still my question stands. Only two of the ten songs? And not the Karen tribute? If I was Richard, I'd have tried to tap John for all the songs.

Agreed. There's never a song where John shouldn't be his lyricist.

Ed

 

[Bartog739]

Except for Something In Your Eyes, In Love Alone, and the instrumental Time, the album Time didn't work for me.

I absolutely love Karen's Theme, especially the piano. I listen to it often. Moves me to tears every single time.

 

[Boondoggle]

Karen's Theme out of the two

 

[newvillefan]

I only voted this evening. 'Karen's Theme' all the way. It's got the same chord changes as I heard in 'Love Is Surrender'. Orchestral arrangements are where Richard excelled. Never was a fan of how Richard sped up the delivery of his vocals on the last chorus of 'When Time Was All We Had'.

 

[ullalume]

Karen’s Theme, for me.