GP, WNML and S.R.O sound samples up on Shout's website

[thetijuanataxi]

Sound samples are up for all three June releases on Shout! Factory's web site. Unfortununately for me, my computer's audio is down at the moment. It looks like there's a sound sample for BRASILIA. Would someone with working audio take a listen and tell us if it's the BRASILIA with the trombone fills at the begining? Also, does TIJUANA TAXI appear to have any dropouts at the beginning?

David,
curiously waiting........

 

[Mike Blakesley]

Well I tried to listen to "Brasilia," but there's a problem: Clicking on the link results in a "You are not authorized to view this page" error. I'll try it again tomorrow. I'm very curious about that trombone fill too.

I checked a couple of other places for those samples (including Amazon) and they're not up yet.

All the other samples at Shout! work fine and sound great.

 

[pawdad]

The short tidbits available from the Shout! website are only at 96k bit rate. I trust the cd will sound much better. The "Tijuana Taxi" take is the stereo version, with the taxi horn in the intro, not the mono (45) version.
I only saw "Spanish Flea", "Tijuana Taxi", and "3rd Man Theme" available for listening. "Brasilia" from WNML does not have the t-bone in the intro.

 

[Rudy]

Amazon should have their samples up shortly, probably within a week or so. Still hard to hear ultimate sound quality over compressed samples.

 

[Harry]

It's looking like the WHAT NOW MY LOVE version that we'll be getting is the less-reverbed version, probably with the "bump-and-grind" "Plucky", like the old A&M CD was.

The sound samples on SHOUT's website indicate that, anyway.

Harry
...wishing the more reverb-y version would've made it to CD, online...

 

[Captain Bacardi]

I'm already disappointed that the trombone will be missing in "Brasilia". Good thing I have a pretty clean version on a CD-R already. This would've been a good album to have the original "reverb-y" version (I like that word, Harry! ) plus the newer mixes. Oh well....


Capt. Bacardi

 

[Mike Blakesley]

More rarities for the box set, maybe?

 

[Captain Bacardi]

More rarities for the box set, maybe?

I suppose that's possible. The question, though, is which would be the rarity???


Capt. Bacardi

 

[Mike Blakesley]

I would say the one that's never been on CD.

I do wonder about this though. Are they just taking what became the "original CD versions" and remastering from there?

 

[thetijuanataxi]

I, for one, am EXTREMELY disappointed in the choice of the master for WNML. I got my first copy of it on vinyl in 1967, so I don't know how much more "original" we can get. The more reverby, trombone-filled "Brasilia" is the original as far as I'm concerned and it is FAR superior to this half-cocked version they used for the re-master. As happy as I am for the rest of the series, I hope that the majority of the people will pass on this one. After all the discussion about this subject on this forum, you'd think someone would have gotten the message. As far as I'm concerned this version sounds like a mixed down 8-track as compared to the original version. The fidelity is LOUSY, "Brasilia" sounds naked and incomplete, the formerly reverbed tracks sound lackluster. There is no sensible reason IMHO, why they should have used this second rate master for this series.

David,
Hoping GP and S.R.O will be done properly.......

 

[Harry]

I, for one, am EXTREMELY disappointed in the choice of the master for WNML. I got my first copy of it on vinyl in 1967, so I don't know how much more "original" we can get. ... I hope that the majority of the people will pass on this one. ... The fidelity is LOUSY, "Brasilia" sounds naked and incomplete, the formerly reverbed tracks sound lackluster.......

I wouldn't go that far especially when no-one's really heard the actual CD. Basing such judgments on compressed sound files posted on a website is never a good idea.

I choose to look at the positives here. Whenever I compare the two stereo versions of WHAT NOW MY LOVE, I have to admit that the dryer version is brighter and cleaner. There's something gritty and dirty about the sound of the "reverb-y" version that's cleaned up in the dry version. Yes, my memories of these tracks are the "reverb-y" ones, but that doesn't stop me from enjoying the dryer ones. In fact, one of those changes (for me) to the album was the inclusion of the bump-and-grind section on "Plucky" - a revelation, and the moment I first heard it was one of those frozen moments in time that I'll always remember.

My personal wish would be that we'd at least get an understanding of what happened with the two stereo mixes here. I know we've got theories about East coast and West coast masters, but really, they are just theories. Nothing definitive from the "source".

Consider that "Brasilia" in its trombone-filled version was used on MUSIC BOX, that compilation album of various artists. And that "What Now My Love" in its "reverb-y" version appeared in the same SP19xxx series on that DJ SAMPLER album. So at that point in time, those mixes were considered the 'definitive' ones to use.

Something happened at the release time of SOLID BRASS or FOURSIDER (whichever came first, my memory fails me here), when "What Now My Love" (and/or "So What's New" and/or "If I Were A Rich Man") appeared in their newer (to me) dryer versions. From that point on, it seems that any compilation or CD issued always used the dryer version. It's as if the old "reverb-y" mixes were disowned by the powers that be, forever doomed to ancient vinyl.

Though I had hoped that the liner notes might clear up the mystery, I'm guessing that they probably won't. It'll have to remain a mystery, I suppose.

Harry
...looking forward to the next series of releases, online...

 

[EDBRAD]

Yes it is a big mystery.I guess maybe we will find out more at theCD release time in June.

ED.

'

 

[manifan]

This discussion confuses me, because I've never heard anything but the "dry" version of WNML, and only one version of "Brasilia." Did some people get one mix of the LP and others get another?

 

[Harry]

This discussion confuses me, because I've never heard anything but the "dry" version of WNML, and only one version of "Brasilia." Did some people get one mix of the LP and others get another?

That's apparently the case. Back when A&M Corner was just becoming more popular on the World Wide Web, the topic came up about the CD sounding different, dryer, than the LP. Others chimed in and said that the CD sounded the way they'd always heard the album, and we put two and two together to decide that there were, back in the '60s, two different stereo masters of WHAT NOW MY LOVE. Some of us grew up with it one way, others the other way.

Once they CD cemented the dry mix as the semi-official one, those of us who grew up with the "reverb-y" mix have always felt a bit slighted that "our" album has never been memorialized. The announcement of the new SHOUT! Factory releases gave us a bit of hope, but the sound samples now seem to indicate the dry mix on the three songs posted thus far.

Did your "Plucky" always have the bump-and-grind middle section? Mine didn't.

Now for more confusion, I later acquired what we've called a hybrid version of the album, where Side One has the reverb-y mixes and Side Two has the de-boned "Brasilia".

Harry

 

[TonyCurrie]

Off-topic a little, but in my '70s DJ days when I was on the receiving end of more plastic than you could possibly listen to, it was not at all uncommon for a record to undergo a remix or revamp and be re-released with the same catalogue number.

I seem to recall a single by Noosha Fox was seriously speeded-up in its second coming. Even The Beatles would get up to tricks - there are two versions of "Across The Universe" and of course "Revolution".

Last week at radio six international I received a second copy of a CD by a terrific singer by the name of Terri Hendrix. The title "The Art of Removing Wallpaper" and the tracks, sleeve, catalogue number are all the same. Only obvious difference is the label on the CD id now white, instead of black. But five of the tracks have been COMPLETELY remixed. I'm told Terri wasn't happy with the originals. So, perhaps, some day in the year 2045 on the Terri Hendrix forum, they'll be going over this same argument - which is the "proper" version?

 

[Rudy]

I choose to look at the positives here. Whenever I compare the two stereo versions of WHAT NOW MY LOVE, I have to admit that the dryer version is brighter and cleaner. There's something gritty and dirty about the sound of the "reverb-y" version that's cleaned up in the dry version. Yes, my memories of these tracks are the "reverb-y" ones, but that doesn't stop me from enjoying the dryer ones. In fact, one of those changes (for me) to the album was the inclusion of the bump-and-grind section on "Plucky" - a revelation, and the moment I first heard it was one of those frozen moments in time that I'll always remember.

My personal wish would be that we'd at least get an understanding of what happened with the two stereo mixes here. I know we've got theories about East coast and West coast masters, but really, they are just theories. Nothing definitive from the "source".

I grew up on the mono version, and later bought the stereo version (used) in the 80s. Both had the same mixes (which would be the "reverbed" version, with no "strip tease" and the tromboned "Brasilia"). I only got the alternate stereo version in the mid 90s (1997 or 1998), and have never owned the CD until I got a CD-R copy of it. So like Harry it was a surprise to hear the strip tease in "Plucky"; I'd heard the missing-t-bone "Brasilia" on compilations before, but it also appeared on this "new" (for me) LP.

The way the mono and my original stereo version sound the same, it almost makes me think a stereo version of the mono mix got out there somehow.

When these albums were new, east and west coast masters were sent out. (From what I've heard elsewhere, the albums may have been mixed twice, rather than send out a copy of a master which would not sound as good.) Only after the albums became less popular did the masters get consolidated back on the west coast again, and that's A&M determined which one would be used for reissues from that point on (not to mention having the confusion of a few 2-track versions in the vaults). For all we know the alternate version may not exist anymore.

Because this was a very popular album (it charted 9 weeks at #1, the longest of any TJB album), it's no surprise Harry has a hybrid version--they probably replaced the metal parts at the pressing plant when they wore out, and ended up using one version of the album for one side and the other version for the flip side. It was not uncommon to send the metal parts (mothers or stampers) to other plants if they were needed.

 

[Captaindave]

I have the original vinyl albums. I'll never be able to tell the diference. I just want to play them in my car and portable CD player...

I'm so confused by all this I could...cry

 

[Mike Blakesley]

What's funny about the "striptease" Plucky is, I owned it for several years before I heard it. As I've noted in other posts, I'm a compiler -- I have quite a few CDs I've never really played all the way through, just put my favorite songs on compilations I've made.

Anyway, that was the case when I got WHAT NOW MY LOVE on the original CD release. I was already really familiar with the album, and "Plucky" wasn't a favorite song of mine, so when I made my next TJB-from-CDs compilations, it never made the 'cut.' It wasn't until it began getting discussed here on the forum that I actually pulled the CD out and played the song. I still remember that day, it was one of those "hey, that's COOL!" moments.

 

[TallPaulInKy]

Harry wrote:
Something happened at the release time of SOLID BRASS or FOURSIDER, when "What Now My Love" (and/or "So What's New" and/or "If I Were A Rich Man") appeared in their newer (to me) dryer versions.

This is probaby a simple situation where the remastering engineer decided to pull the original takes and do a new mix to improve the fidelity. I believe both of these were issued on CD at some time and they could have been thinking. Herb probably never noticed the difference or could care less. I don't mean that in a negative sense as he was a very busy record company executive, and probably concerned more with his solo career than TJB reissues.

But that is more reading between the lines. We as fans expect some sinister plot whereas many times it's just a goof on an engineers part.
Once a digital master is made, it is usually reused in CDs rather than going back to the analog tape.

 

[manifan]

As I've noted in other posts, I'm a compiler -- I have quite a few CDs I've never really played all the way through, just put my favorite songs on compilations I've made.

Anyway, that was the case when I got WHAT NOW MY LOVE on the original CD release. I was already really familiar with the album, and "Plucky" wasn't a favorite song of mine, so when I made my next TJB-from-CDs compilations, it never made the 'cut.'

_________________________________

That's been the case with me, too, as it was never one of my favorite cuts. But even so, I think I'd remember a strip tease segment, especially since I like the song "The Stripper." I'd lay odds that it's not on my vinyl version (which I haven't heard for years).

 

[Harry]

I bought the A&M CDs of LONELY BULL, VOLUME 2, SOUTH OF THE BORDER, GOING PLACES and WHAT NOW MY LOVE all on the same day, so there was a little time between my purchase and the actual hearing of this 'new' striptease section of "Plucky". I'm sure I gave each album a customary initial spin in the CD player, checking the intros to verifiy that all sounded OK and then probably filed them proudly in the ALPERT section of my shelves at the time.

But I clearly remember sometime later, driving down Ivy Hill Road on the way to work, with the WHAT NOW MY LOVE CD playing and hearing that new "Plucky" segment. It was almost like a gift, or a reward, for being a loyal TjB fan for all those years, and much like the feeling I get listening to LOST TEASURES.

Harry

 

[spanky1]

This talk of differing versions of PLUCKY and BRASILIA have me scratching my head. I've got the vinyl that my parents bought in the 60's and assumed that this was THE original. My Brasilia intro sounds just like the sound sample on Shout Factory(I assume we're talking first 5 seconds or so). I don't find anything resembling a "bump and grind" in my PLUCKY track, either.

I'd love top hear a few seconds of each of these "differences". As I listened through my WNML vinyl tonight, I realized how great this LP is. This cd will be a welcome addition to the other 4 that have been previously released.

Michael H.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

If, during the middle of "Plucky," it stops cold and goes into a swaggering slow-beat (similar to "Love Potion #9") for a few bars and then suddenly kicks back into high gear again, that's the bump'n'grind version.

The original version of "Brasilia," which is contained on my LP (and has never appeared on CD to our knowledge), has a bit of Bob Edmondson trombone just before the main melody kicks in, and a trumpet flourish in the first verse that are omitted from the plainer version.

Of the two songs, the "Plucky" alterations are the most radical; but the "Brasilia" changes really made the song less awesome, to me at least. I'm still holding out hope that the more-detailed version makes it onto the new CD.

 

[Harry]

This talk of differing versions of PLUCKY and BRASILIA have me scratching my head. I've got the vinyl that my parents bought in the 60's and assumed that this was THE original. My Brasilia intro sounds just like the sound sample on Shout Factory(I assume we're talking first 5 seconds or so). I don't find anything resembling a "bump and grind" in my PLUCKY track, either.

This description sounds exactly like my "hybrid" version, where side one is the old familiar echoey, reverb-y version with "Plucky" missing the bump'n'grind; then side two comes along with the dryer versions of "Brasilia" and probably "If I Were A Rich Man" that's not reverbed in Herb's trumpet line.

I'd love top hear a few seconds of each of these "differences".

If I recall, our fearless leader Rudy once had a sound sample made up of these differences. Perhaps he'll post them for comparison. Other things to listen for are the reverb in Herb's trumpet line on the title track, and an echo to the "whistler" on "So What's New". Both of those are dryer on the "bump'n'grind/reverb-y" version.

Harry

 

[Rudy]

The original version of "Brasilia," which is contained on my LP (and has never appeared on CD to our knowledge), has a bit of Bob Edmondson trombone just before the main melody kicks in, and a trumpet flourish in the first verse that are omitted from the plainer version.

It sounds to me like two different takes on the trumpet part at times.