Neil Sedaka Incident in 1975 - 2 Questions

[newvillefan]

I just feel like his ego (and Richard's) created a monstrous situation. I couldn't really stomach him after that incident. He took a bad situation and scored with it in the press, when he was in the wrong on several counts. And Richard handled it poorly, as well.

On that score I'd definitely agree, it was a bad combination on several fronts. In the few interviews I've read with Neil, even those from recent years, he does come across as scoring points when he recounts this story. It's very strange how this was all going on, yet Richard arranged his ballad version of 'Breaking Up Is Hard To Do' and they recorded 'Solitaire' the year before. I wonder if there is still any bad blood (pardon the pun) between him and Richard.

 

[mr J.]

Another old thread has been revived.....

The connection between Neil Sedaka and K&R was very minor-he wrote "Solitaire" and he opened a show for them once.I think people are creating more drama about this situation than it's worth.

 

[Mark-T]

At the time, it seemed it was real drama, very newsworthy, for a duo that had been considered nice, ordinary people by their fan base. Mr J, is it true that Richard had the whole concert recorded? Including the infamous duet of Karen and Neil on an upbeat "Breaking Up is Hard to Do"?

 

[A&M Retro]

Well, Neil Sedaka has said himself that Richard Carpenter to this day has never spoken to him again. So, the drama continues....

 

[A&M Retro]

Karen and Neil did encores at the end of the Carpenters show where he joined her onstage for the big finish. They did a medley of Neil's hits and I believe some other oldies.

Richard recorded all their shows for posterity, so those performances do indeed exist.

 

[mr J.]

Karen and Neil did encores at the end of the Carpenters show where he joined her onstage for the big finish. They did a medley of Neil's hits and I believe some other oldies.

Richard recorded all their shows for posterity, so those performances do indeed exist.

The only live shows recorded were "Live At The Palladium" and "Live In Japan"-Richard confirmed this.

At the time, it seemed it was real drama, very newsworthy, for a duo that had been considered nice, ordinary people by their fan base. Mr J, is it true that Richard had the whole concert recorded? Including the infamous duet of Karen and Neil on an upbeat "Breaking Up is Hard to Do"?

According to Richard,that concert wasn't recorded.

 

[newvillefan]

The only live shows recorded were "Live At The Palladium" and "Live In Japan"-Richard confirmed this.

Where was it said that these were the only ones recorded? I've never heard him say that. It's also at odds with what he told Ray Coleman, who said in the biography that Richard recorded almost everyone of their concerts for his private collection.

 

[newvillefan]

The only live shows recorded were "Live At The Palladium" and "Live In Japan"-Richard confirmed this.

I checked Richard's fans ask on his website and it looks as though that was your source:

""Not many live shows were recorded, only two: 'Live in Japan' (1974) and 'Live at the Palladium' (1976). Both have been released on CD, but the former will probably be easier to obtain. Japan is the source to look for both - through Tower or Virgin imports, of course. These were never released in the U.S. at my request, as I'm just not much on live albums by anybody".

This really confuses me because it's in direct conflict with what Ray Coleman wrote. I wonder what the real story is then?

 

[masqueraded]

He's probably only saying that those 2 are the only 'available' releases for live shows to hush fans up so they/we don't pester him to release his private collection of live shows.

 

[BGW]

He's probably only saying that those 2 are the only 'available' releases for live shows to hush fans up so they/we don't pester him to release his private collection of live shows.

Exactly. If you look in the background of almost any show they're not lip syncing, there's an open reel deck dutifully recording the performance.

 

[A&M Retro]

Richard has stated in several other places that they recorded all of their shows. There's footage of the tapes piled up on shelves in the background of video clips where he's at home being interviewed.

He also would record shows and fast forward to certain places where a mistake was made so that he could play it back to the offending band member! The shows may not have been professionally recorded, but, knowing Richard's perfectionism, they were recorded damned well even if it was just for his and Karen's personal collections.

I agree he's just not telling us now, but the recordings exist. He doesn't like 'live' albums, pure and simple. What a shame.

 

[JeffM]

The only live shows recorded were "Live At The Palladium" and "Live In Japan"-Richard confirmed this.

According to Richard,that concert wasn't recorded.

There may be a conflict here between "recorded" and "released." It may be outside the scope of this discussion, but are there "bootleg" recordings on the market of Carpenters concerts? I suspect though that the guys who "booted" concert recordings back then were far more interested in Foghat or Mott The Hoople than in Karen and Richard...

 

[Harry]

I have two of my own recordings made in the Philly area. The first is a 1972 concert at Philly's Academy Of Music. The second was from a couple of years later at the Valley Forge Music Fair. The second concert is almost word for word and note for note the same show as the LIVE IN JAPAN concert. The first one has some of the early oddities like "Cinderella Rockefeller".

Harry

 

[masqueraded]

There may be a conflict here between "recorded" and "released." It may be outside the scope of this discussion, but are there "bootleg" recordings on the market of Carpenters concerts? I suspect though that the guys who "booted" concert recordings back then were far more interested in Foghat or Mott The Hoople than in Karen and Richard...

There definitely are a few recordings out there but not many. I have a few in my collection, mainly from digging around. They vary in quality of course. My favorite has to be the "They Long To Sing Once More" Live in Japan 1976 shows (apparently straight from the soundboard). These are 2 shows on the same day (early and late shows I believe).

 

[A&M Retro]

I know of about six audience recordings that exist, including two in Miami Beach (November, 1971 and April, 1972).

 

[mr J.]

I checked Richard's fans ask on his website and it looks as though that was your source:

""Not many live shows were recorded, only two: 'Live in Japan' (1974) and 'Live at the Palladium' (1976). Both have been released on CD, but the former will probably be easier to obtain. Japan is the source to look for both - through Tower or Virgin imports, of course. These were never released in the U.S. at my request, as I'm just not much on live albums by anybody".

This really confuses me because it's in direct conflict with what Ray Coleman wrote. I wonder what the real story is then?

There's nothing confusing about this-the "real story" comes directly from Richard.If Ray Coleman's book featured some contradictory information,then Ray Coleman is obviously mistaken.

Even if they were recorded,they'll never be released anyway-so we can basically consider them nonexistent.I heard the "Live In Japan" and "Live At The Palladium" discs years ago-and they definitely weren't particularly good live recordings.

Richard has stated in several other places that they recorded all of their shows. There's footage of the tapes piled up on shelves in the background of video clips where he's at home being interviewed.

He also would record shows and fast forward to certain places where a mistake was made so that he could play it back to the offending band member! The shows may not have been professionally recorded, but, knowing Richard's perfectionism, they were recorded damned well even if it was just for his and Karen's personal collections.

I agree he's just not telling us now, but the recordings exist. He doesn't like 'live' albums, pure and simple. What a shame.

If Richard stated on his own website that only a few shows were recorded,we can accept that as being the absolute truth.

As I said above,they'll never be released anyway-so we can basically consider them nonexistent.Any shows that were recorded were probably discarded years ago.

 

[A&M Retro]

I can't imagine Richard discarding of any old recordings....especially with the way things unfolded with Karen. But I agree with you that we'll likely never hear them.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

Maybe they indeed recorded all the shows for reference, but with a very basic recording setup...just not the full blown rig they would have used if the recordings were going to be mixed and released. In the end, I can't say I care much -- I'm with Richard, I don't like live albums in general.

That said, there are a few live albums that are genuine classics...ones I do like are:
Hot August Night - Neil Diamond
Frampton Comes Alive - Peter Frampton
Live: You Get What You Play For - REO Speedwagon
Live Bullet - Bob Seger and the Silver Bullet Band
Alive - Kiss

....but since Carpenters very sound absolutely depends on the studio environment and all those famous overdubs I can totally see why Richard wouldn't want to do a Carpenters live disk. I'm surprised he did the ones that are available.

 

[Mark-T]

Where I think most of Live in Japan is OK, I find Live at the Palladium a great piece of work. Very true to what I heard several times in the late 70s in Las Vegas- including their last performance there.

 

[GaryAlan]

There, on page 183, of the Coleman Bio:
"Roger Young..had experience as their road engineer for concerts...most of which Richard recorded for his private collection."

 

[A&M Retro]

Nice find, Gary! Obviously, if Roger Young was the engineer, those shows were well recorded. Maybe not for release, but I'll bet they sound good.

 

[adam]

Hi
Do any photos exist of karen and neil sedaka together.Surely they must have had their photos taken when they were on tour in 1975

 

[Guitarmutt]

Well, I am now listening to Carpenters live at Carnegie Hall, 1971. It's rough and echoey, but you get the idea. Plus, Karen drums throughout. So yeah, there are live recordings. We have to dig with hope. The internet is an amazing resource with patience and care.

 

[Guitarmutt]

Maybe they indeed recorded all the shows for reference, but with a very basic recording setup...just not the full blown rig they would have used if the recordings were going to be mixed and released. In the end, I can't say I care much -- I'm with Richard, I don't like live albums in general.

That said, there are a few live albums that are genuine classics...ones I do like are:
Hot August Night - Neil Diamond
Frampton Comes Alive - Peter Frampton
Live: You Get What You Play For - REO Speedwagon
Live Bullet - Bob Seger and the Silver Bullet Band
Alive - Kiss

....but since Carpenters very sound absolutely depends on the studio environment and all those famous overdubs I can totally see why Richard wouldn't want to do a Carpenters live disk. I'm surprised he did the ones that are available.

My fave live albums:

Rush-Live in Rio
The Cure-Concert and Curiosity(1984)
Carpenters- (unofficial) In Australia 1972.
Einstuerzende Neubauten- London 25th Anniversary Concert.(2005)