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Quadraphonic Recordings

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Karenannefan

Karenannefan

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I've just been listening to the Quadraphonics lps transferred onto cd. What a fascinating listen these are!

On the Singles 69 -73, Karen actually sings "All the tears of useless search..." instead of 'years' on Goodbye to Love.

And on Horizon, on 'Only Yesterday' the opening vocal is a different recording from the original on the lines "Nobody knew, the pain I was going through and waiting was all my heart could do"

Now and Then is probably the most different in terms of sound.

Has anybody heard these? And can anyone shed some insight as to why these vocals are different to the original recordings.

These are fascinating! :)

Laura
 
Karenannefan said:
I've just been listening to the Quadraphonics lps transferred onto cd. What a fascinating listen these are!
Click to expand...

While you can hear differences between these and the standard stereo, it's even more fun if you have a multi-channel surround sound setup, like today's modern 5.1 systems for movies. Most of these are quite capable of reproducing these old quad mixes as they were intended to be heard, since the 'Pro-Logic' setting is pretty much what old matrix quad was all about.

On the Singles 69 -73, Karen actually sings "All the tears of useless search..." instead of 'years' on Goodbye to Love.

Has anybody heard these? And can anyone shed some insight as to why these vocals are different to the original recordings.

These are fascinating! :)
Click to expand...

On this album, to begin with, Richard and Karen were attempting to make something different - not just a collection of oldies thrown onto an album, thus even the stereo version differs from the way the songs were originally recorded, sometimes in subtle ways, sometimes blatantly obvious. For the quad album, the attempt was to rearrange the different sounds so that they would sound like they were surrounding you. Sometimes this was done with electronic trickery like slightly altering the phasing of certain sounds - but the point here is that they had to go back to the original multi-track masters to direct the sounds to 'new places.'

As for the substituted line - I have no idea why. The changed lyrics are even more of a puzzle, but if you listen carefully, you can hear that not only is one word changed, but Karen's whole vocal track is doubled there.

I like the mix of "For All We Know" on that quad album, with the heavier emphasis on the bass drum. It gives the track an interesting foundation.

Harry
NP: Quad Singles 1969-1973
 
Harry,

I have these quad albums mixed first in channels 1 & 2 and then in 3 & 4. I just can't get over how different these sound!

I believe 'Carpenters' and 'Close to you' quads were only relased in 8 track form. I wonder if these are much different to the originals?

Have you or anyone here heard these at all?

Laura
 
I have heard them all, however, I am used to these versions, so it is hard for me to spot differences. The SQ albums will not decode properly through a Dolby Pro Logic or Dolby Pro Logic II decoder, however you will get some "spaciousness". The best way to hear these properly is to listen to a DTS conversion of the Quad 8 track. These can sound quite amazing, considering that the source is an 8 track.

"Horizon" was released in the CD-4 format, so if you have the proper equipment, you will hear the album with the proper separation. There is also a Japanese version of "Now & Then" that is CD-4, but it is very hard to get. I am not positive, but I believe that there are other Carpenters albums released in Japan that were in CD-4.

To hear a small sample of a DTS conversion, check out the "Deadman's Curve" post. I linked to a pair of MP3 files I created from the Q8.

:-jon
 
This is truly exciting news!
with the advent of surround
sound I have found that on
some systems Karens lead vocals
seem to just jump right into
your ears!! While in other modes
you can really hear the complexity
of the there unmatched backround
vocals.
Back in 85 I sold home audio and
video systems so 5.1 was yet to
be but on one of the early systems
I was listening to Calling Ocupant
and I was stunned by the vocals
and the orchestration! That song
deservres more recognition! what
a work of art
JIM
 
Okey Dokey,

I went to five separate used record stores. However there was one place that housed five different "vendor's of classics" you might say. In each store I merrily asked the PIC if they had a QUAD only section? This "multi-faceted location" did. AS I appraoched I found four long, thick rows of wonder. My blood pressue shot up and I got a little shaky. OH MY GOD is this really happening? I often have dreams of going into some type of record store and un-earthing a NEW item that had never been seen by anyone. Yes, I dream her too. So, I began slowly flipping through this treasure trove hoping with baited breath that Karen would "jump out at me". Still flipping ever so slowly. Anxious, nearly trembling making my "flipping" even slower that it would usually be. At the time of this heart-pounding ordeal, I had only knowledge of THE SINGLES 1969-1973 being available in this format. Any darker brown cover I carefully peaked at did not possess the logo. Disappointed that this row had been scavenged to no avail. I still had two rows to go. Trembling I move right, about a foot from the previous row. Realizing that I was about to embark upon the 2/3rd's potion of my quest. Fervently I plead OH God/ Goddess PLEASE! This I say just to cover all Higher Beings that may or may not be involved. I'm ready to strike a bargain with the Almighys. I'm being tortured as I procede. Powers that be, you must stop this shaking long enough for me to continue with row two.. First album ,second album and as I scan ahead of myself I see a nice, unworn strip of silver. UMM this looks like one of my sixteen copies of HORIZON when stacked "up-right". Oh, it's a shame I think. The OMLY quad release is THE SINGLES...sigh. Flipping, flipping, flipping in an instant HORIZON jumped in my face and nearly toppled me over. At first I just knew that this must be a mis-file. The SINGLES is the only quad. Inspecting the quality of the "used" product, I turn the record over to discover that it had the familiar "raised" CarpenterS logo. Nice I thought. Many do not have that feature. I scan the back cover and notice something "curious" in the top right corner. QUAD4. This must be a mis-print my denial registerd negativly. Really having little or no experience with this format I SPRINT to the PIC and in a "speed sound" flurry of words, I exclaim "Is this thing REAL"? THe PIC takes the album from me as I'm nearly having a seizure. Quietly he begin's his response. Thinking hurry asshole ...I'm gonna bite my tongue off here! He gingerly removes the l.p. from its protective cover...His lips part and gently says, as if no big deal, he says "YES, THAT'S A QUAD FOR." OH MY GOD!!!!!!YOU'RE KIDDING? "No this is a QUAD 4. My head now spinning ,my heart racing, my knees nearly buckling, I whole-heartedly burst out with THAK YOU!!! He then says that several CarpenterS album's came out in this format. I pay my 5 dollars. Gleefully and TENDERLY I receive the golden goose from the clerk. Now I'm nearly on my knees, ever so grateful to the POWER'S THAT BE for smiling upon me. OH MY GOD this is nearly second to meeting Karen & Richard. I fly, albeit weekly, to the row and 1/2 I had still to search. Zipping thru them with the speed of light. I find no more. SO WHAT I say to myself, I have stumbled upon an item of "holy Grail" caliber! This and my recent acquisition of a mint copy of OFFERING will be cornerstones to a vast and ever growing collection of rare and elusive finds. Upon the completion of my heart attack, the PIC says "would you like a bag"? PLEASE... I think to myself., just knowing that this man doesn't realize that EUPHORIA is coarsing thru my veins. I exit the store to greet the most refreshing Pacific Northwest rain I'd ever seen. To the car I walk softly and determined to enter the vehicle with delicacy and assurance. With the precision of a brain surgeon I place Karen on the seat next to me. I lock the doors. I fear that someone knowing of my treasure would surely try to enter the vehicle. I go home shaking and giddy. I proceed to a 5.1 system and with ultimate tenderness I place the work of art on the turntable. I crank the rear speakers to full duty. Beautifully, exquisitely, the millionth listening of AURORA begins. I must sit down. Standing is not an option. AURORA bleeds into ONLY YESTERDAY and my heart skips a beat. I hold my breath to achieve maximum silence. Dunt da dunt da dunt da da da da... CORONARY!!! 911! emergency! AFTER LONG ENOUGH OF BEING ALONE...I must take a breath here as I'm turning blue. I'm certain to breath only in sync with Karen. Guitars and oooh's and ahhhs emanate from the speakers enveloping me in sound. Ultra Karen. Surrounded and bathing in her voice, I have an aural orgasm! I listen intensely to every note. Every subtle nuance, each treasured "pop" of the vinyl. Of which there are few. My thoughts are so loud that I start dueling with music and phycosis. The room is spinning. DESPARADO WHY DON"T YOU COME TOUR SENSES? Then a bonechilling STOP! OH YES, WAIT AMINUTE MR. POSTMAN...this is too much stimuli!!! At the end off MR. POSTMAN I lift the stylus. I absolutely cannot endure another millisecond. The majestic trauma has captivated me and rendered my useless, nearly comatose and drenched in sweat. To recover I make my way to the bed and collapse. Truly, I am spent. This would've been an ideal moment for XanaX. A few XanaX. After a spell, I have no idea how long I layed motionless, I arose and with steady and purposeful hands I return the album to the safety of its coccoon. I approach my NEW, acid free album protectors and place the gem in its new home. Satisfied and near exhaustion I smile.

With a little note,

Jeff
 
The same thing happened to me when I put the needle down on the QUAD Singles. I could not believe what I was hearing.

Good find!
 
Well I finally got my hands on a Quad Singles 69-73 LP. I heard only 2 or 3 songs about a year ago at my local record store, but had not heard the Quad album in full. Today I did. Listened to this through my surround sound 5.1 receiver with 5 speakers, left, right & center fronts and 2 rear speakers. Had my receiver set at Pro-Logic. Here is my review:

I wan't blown away as much as I thought I would be. It is a very interesting Lp, I also realize I am probably not picking up all that the Quad intended with my 5.1 sound set up but I could still hear some differences. Some were:

On Ticket to Ride, I noticed a heavier drum kick during parts of the song.

Rainy Days, the strings & rhythum sound louder to me, giving a louder feel for the melody. Also noticed how some of the overdubbing (singing...talk it out) comes through to the rear speakers & sounds pretty darn cool.

I found what sounds to me to be a glitch (this may already have been discussed) On the Seque into Goodbye to Love. Right before Karen sings the first word..I'll, there is what sounds like a guitar riff or could sound like a needle scratching across a record. In any case, listen to this spot & turn your volume really loud at that spot. What the heck is that? cause I don't hear this glitch on the "audiophile singles Lp"

Of course the main difference is the vocal lead of "all the tears of useless searching" is diff which has been mentioned. I would not be suprised if there are other diff vocal takes on this quad track, it just seems to me this whole song sounds diff to me.

Yesterday Once More-This song sounded too muted to me, I didn't like it. especially in the begining. Toward the end it got a little better.

For all we Know sounded like it had a slightly stronger drum kick which tends to add a little more punch to the song, still love this song & this original mix the best.

Hurting Each Other-the piano is really supressed in the background at times on this track during the quiet places in which you should hear it. Example. "Without ever knowing...enter piano starts (but very very very faint) I'm just not use to hearing it like that.

All in all, nice to have for my collection, Still I probably will play my Audiophile LP more. I played it right after playing the Quad & the Audiophile Lp is so much more cleaner all around. Maybe I just need to get use to the Quad sounds.
 
I would guess that you're not quite getting the intended effect through your 5.1 setup. The different quad systems (QS, SQ and CD4) all had different decoding methods. (Which one does your LP have?) Dolby Pro Logic uses something different. Like Jon Urban mentioned, you will get some of the "effect", but you won't necessarily get the correct quad presentation as intended. IIRC, there is an active community of individuals who take these old recordings, decode them properly, and encode them onto DTS (and possibly DVD-Audio) discs for playback on more modern equipment. That would probably be a better way to hear them. That would also explain why a song like "Yesterday Once More" might sound muted...part of the different encoding of the LP vs. the decoding of Dolby may be muting something that shouldn't be.

Just a theory... :wink:
 
There is a small sticker on the front of the LP at the bottom right corner that says this:

This record has been SQ Encoded

Could this have something to do with it? I didn't realize there were different versions of Quad on the Singles. (QS, SQ and CD4)

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. If I need to adjust my Pro-Logic stereo system to help any, please let me know.

Or better yet what kind of system do I need to hear all the benifits of this SQ that I seem to be missing.
 
Chris-An Ordinary Fool said:
There is a small sticker on the front of the LP at the bottom right corner that says this:

This record has been SQ Encoded

Could this have something to do with it? I didn't realize there were different versions of Quad on the Singles. (QS, SQ and CD4)
Click to expand...

Whoops...I didn't know what Singles was encoded with--I was just mentioning there were different quad systems and that they were decoded differently.

Actually, Jon's post about SQ above mentions this:

JonUrban said:
The SQ albums will not decode properly through a Dolby Pro Logic or Dolby Pro Logic II decoder, however you will get some "spaciousness".
Click to expand...

His site and forum at Quadraphonic Quad, may have more information about how to play that LP back. http://www.quadraphonicquad.com
 
Jon, If you happen to re-visit here again, I would appreciate any input you might have of how I could locate what I need to hook up to my stereo system to decode this SQ from my singles Quad Carpenters LP.

I found this link but this is a decoder for the Quad CD-4 which would work for the Horizons Quad LP but not my Singles Quad

http://personal.riverusers.com/~manderso/quaddisc/cd4-2.jpg


I may also ask my local record dealer about these decoders as he is really knowledagble in this kind of stuff & even carries older turntables & amplifiers & stuff.
 
I don't know what kind of decoders are available--back then, it was just as likely you'd buy a hi-fi system that had quad built into it.

CD-4 was quite different from the other systems. It had the rear two channels modulated by a subcarrier frequency. If you were to stop your turntable while playing it, you would hear the high frequency subcarrier signal as the turntable slowed down. I only have a couple of CD4 albums, only because I received them as gifts when they came out. (Both are RCA titles.)
 
After having some time with the new Quad LP, I'm starting to change my mind a little. Even though I don't have the correct equipment to play this properly, I'm finding it a gem.

Of course listening to this with my Sony Dynamic Stereo Headphones on (MDR V600) I'm hearing little things that are pretty cool. (Yes I know it's not the correct way to listen to this Quad) :D

It's hard to list them all because there so small & may only last a few seconds or 30 sec or so.

For example, on Ticket to Ride, There are a few parts toward the end of the song that I'm hearing Richard's vocals more prominent during the ending harmony vocals, something that sorta just really jumped out at me just now listening to this.
 
Chris--with a DVD-Audio disc, there can be a few different "programs" on it. You usually get a Dolby Digital, plus a 2-channel and 5.1-channel program. There is a "gotcha" on the 2-channel though: on some discs it can be "discrete", where you are listening to an actual 2-channel digital track, and on others, the 2-channel is created on the fly from the 5.1-channel track via a "downmix" done in the player. Plus, to choose the 2-channel program, you have to turn the TV on and select it from the menu. (That's one reason I prefer SACD--you can just put a disc in and press "Play".)

Early on, when I first got the player, I went through the setup menu and apparently thought I'd set defaults for 2-channel operation. It didn't apply to DVD-A and I thought I was listening to the two-channel programs all the time, when I wasn't. Fleetwood Mac's "Rumours" sounded odd--a bit "phasey" and kind of weak in the bass. Plus, there were a couple of differences in the mix here and there--like you say with your Quad LP, I noticed an instrument or two jumping out and (to me) sounding out of place. It also explained why other DVD-As sounded odd.
 
Thanks Rudy for all your input. I went to my local record store today & we talked for awhile about Quad Lp's SQ & CD4.

He had a Turntable & Stereo from the 70's that he said had the Quad decoder built into it. This was the same equipment that he original played me his Quad Carpenters Singles Lp on months & months ago. In a nut shell, he told me there was no extra piece of equipment that I could get to add to my current (new) 5.1 surround sound system. He said to properly play those kind of Quad Lp's I need a system from the 70s that decoded them. So since I'm not at a point to buy a whole new (actually old) equipment to properly play this Quad Lp I have..I guess I will be content on listening to it on what I have.
 
Actually, if you have a "modern" receiver with a phono input and a 6 channel input (as you would use for DVD-A or SACD Surround), you CAN properly decode the Carpenters quad LPs with the right equipment.

The easiest would be the SQ albums.

There are SQ decoders that pop up on ebay from time to time. The very best of these are called TATE decoders. Many of the early SQ decoders are pretty poor, and not worth the money. Unless they are FULL LOGIC, then stay away from them. If you really want to decode these LPs properly, you should find a TATE decoder. Like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=14978&item=5704491283

With a decoder such as this you will get the actual 4.0 surround mix that Richard and Karen intended you to hear.

Horizon was a CD-4 album. To play this one properly is a bit more complex, as you would need a special cartridge for you turntable, a turntable with a low capacitance tonearm wiring harness, and a CD-4 demodulator (not a decoder). This could also be used with a "modern" receiver with a 6 channel in. Here is a CD-4 demodulator:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3284&item=5705387193&rd=1


For those of you interested, I created an A&M quad page over at QuadraphonicQuad. You can check it out here:

http://www.quadraphonicquad.com/aandm.htm

Hope that helps!

:-jon
 
I'm often impressed with the info offered here. After all this time member-wise it feels homey. The free verbal exchange of CarpenterS stuff is fascinating to this collector. Nice to have a place to relate too.

Good job persons,

Jeff
 
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