Roger Nichols, Renowned Steely Dan Engineer, R.I.P.
- Thread starter Steven J. Gross
- Start date
- Status
Steven J. Gross
Well-Known Member
Captain Bacardi
Well-Known Member
The Citizen box was remastered at Masterfonics in Nashville, TN. Glenn Meadows and Milan Bogdan (engineers) worked on it at Masterfonics with the help of Walt and Don, along with the ever-present Roger Nichols, helping with everything from locating the correct master tapes to their digital conversion and cleanup. He was like the final stop in the quality control chain--everything had to be up to his standards, which is why the Dan always insisted on his presence in the studio. It's like the old saying goes, "Ain't momma happy, ain't nobody happy!"
As much as they tried to embrace digital (they had attempted Gaucho in digital, but gave up due to difficulties with the equipment), it was surprising that they actually tracked the last Steely Dan album, Everything Must Go, to analog tape, and it is one of their best sounding albums to date. Nichols worked with Steely Dan on every album they released, all the way back to Can't Buy A Thrill; next year would have marked 40 years (!) that Nichols would have worked with Walt and Don.
As much as they tried to embrace digital (they had attempted Gaucho in digital, but gave up due to difficulties with the equipment), it was surprising that they actually tracked the last Steely Dan album, Everything Must Go, to analog tape, and it is one of their best sounding albums to date. Nichols worked with Steely Dan on every album they released, all the way back to Can't Buy A Thrill; next year would have marked 40 years (!) that Nichols would have worked with Walt and Don.
CherryStreet
Member
The 1993 Citizen Box Set pales sonically to the 1998-99 Remasters. Not to mention the albums are split up and the tracks are often in the wrong order! If you purchased an early run of the set you also have a "bad" disc. Here is the test, put on "Rikki Don't Lose That Number". Do you hear Victor Feldman's flopanda (a kind of electric marimba) introduction before the piano starts?
Then you have an incorrect disc with the "single" mix. (Unbelievably the same mistake is made on
the 1999 remaster reissue of "Pretzel Logic"!)
Roger Nichols was able to catch many mistakes over the years, like when MCA was using inferior masters running at the wrong speed! in the late 80's to make CDs from in their new US plant to being able to detect a microscopic spot of mustard dropped on a tape & fix it! (See the 1998 "Countdown To Ecstasy" reissue liner notes: http://www.broberg.pp.se/sd_ecstasy.htm)
But he missed the "Rikki" mistake on the Citizen set. Hey, even former atomic scientists are human!
I still think the very first Steely Dan CD's made in 1984 & 85 in Japan sound really nice and true to the original LPs. (Roger provided the masters for that very first CD run by the way).
Here is a great Roger Nichols & Walter Becker interview (Look at that old Powerbook!):
http://www.steelydan.com/eq.html
Some really funny & interesting Steely Dan recording stories with Roger Nichols from Denny Diaz:
http://www.steelydan.com/remember.html
Steven J. Gross
Well-Known Member
I always thought there was something wrong with MCA quality...
All of the remasters are not ideal IMHO. The impression I got was that they had this infatuation with getting rid of all tape hiss from the transfers, which is why they have this slightly sucked-out sound to them. Meadows used CEDAR on the Citizen box. Not sure what went on with the '98/'99 remasters. I'll admit they sound good and I use the '98/'99 set as my "go-to" set (I pretty much killed the Citizen box from carrying the discs around with me for a few years), but not ideal. I don't really know who did the MCA originals, as I've heard different stories depending who you listen to. Hoffman seems to think he did Aja and Katy from the original master tapes.
BTW, I had the defective "Rikki" version of the box set. They were replacing the discs back then. Not sure if they ever did that for the later remastered album. Bugs me that it's missing.
The best I've heard Gaucho is on the SACD or DVD-Audio versions (they released this one in both formats; the DVD-A in far fewer quantities is a real rarity). Too bad they aborted that series. Aja is currently on an import SACD but I've heard that it does not sound so good either.
Give me 180g pressings of these any day of the week, on nice quiet vinyl. Aja was cut to 180g a few years ago by Kevin Gray--can't recall which label it was, but I'm sure it sounds better than the Mobile Fidelity LP, which has a strange high end to it. (I know who has one, though--I'll have him bring it by one of these days.) I'd look for good clean copies of the ABC original releases on these, but they are also hard to find. Finding the right matrix number in the runout is tedious...
CherryStreet
Member
The DTS 5.1 Surround Sound of "Gaucho" in a good room with a great system is a revelatory experience. It's a shame that the two-inch multitracks of the songs Aja and Black Cow are still missing with a reward offered, so they could never do a 5.1 of "Aja".
Read all about it here and more about the "Rikki" curse! -
http://www.broberg.pp.se/sd_aja.htm
The last remaster of Aja digitally remastered by Roger Nichols at Digital Atomics, Miami is still my favorite. I hope that Roger was able to enjoy the fact that his master work was accepted into the National Recording Registry of the Library of Congress before he shuffled off.
As far as a Steely Dan CD set, sonically you can't beat "The Steely Dan Story". As far as 180 gram quite vinyl goes, I am right der witcha. Many of my "needle drop-LP" recordings
beat the CD hands down! Are you going to be able to catch any of the shows this summer Rood?
No, I'm passing on the Dan. The last concert I saw was good (2006), but not enough to make me want to go back....even if they did Aja (the entire album), and Michael McDonald guested with the band again. (That was the coolest part of the last Dan gig I went to.) They are way too expensive, far out of my league now. Even their gig at the Toledo Zoo in a few months is over $70 for good seats...and "good" being a figurative term, as they are like metal bleachers on concrete down there. (Beautiful zoo though...one of the better ones in our area.)
SACD of Gaucho in 5.1 is really good...full resolution at all four corners.
Although I still prefer stereo--I have to be in the mood for Scheiner's surround mixes on the Dan and Fagen albums. Is yours an actual DTS disc? I can't keep track of all the releases that were on DVD-Audio, DTS discs, and those DVD-Audio discs which were released by the DTS company (like Queen's A Night At The Opera). Wish I had more of these surround titles in any format though...too bad they never caught on.
Yeah, I know about those missing tapes, and the rumors about who might be responsible...it's a sore spot in the industry right now.
SACD of Gaucho in 5.1 is really good...full resolution at all four corners.
Although I still prefer stereo--I have to be in the mood for Scheiner's surround mixes on the Dan and Fagen albums. Is yours an actual DTS disc? I can't keep track of all the releases that were on DVD-Audio, DTS discs, and those DVD-Audio discs which were released by the DTS company (like Queen's A Night At The Opera). Wish I had more of these surround titles in any format though...too bad they never caught on.Yeah, I know about those missing tapes, and the rumors about who might be responsible...it's a sore spot in the industry right now.
CherryStreet
Member
Yeah, I know about those missing tapes, and the rumors about who might be responsible...it's a sore spot in the industry right now.
Boy I'd love to hear who they think did it and if the tapes are still usable!
Here's some more fun about the "missing tapes" - Dear Mr. Nichols:
http://www.broberg.pp.se/sd_showbiz.htm
Just look at Roger Nichol's body of work he left behind. Just jaw-dropping:
http://www.rogernichols.com/
From the LA Times:
http://www.latimes.com/news/obituaries/la-me-roger-nichols-20110413,0,6145566.story
Pete Fogel...
I met him at a 2003 get-together before the gig. (There is an old historic church-turned-microbrewery in downtown Clarkston we used to gather at before the Dan gigs.) I am not sure how many gigs he had traveled to, but he and (I think) Jim "Hoops" McKay were making a run of some of the Great Lakes area shows. My only claim to fame (other than the test tubes and the scale?) was that some of our fellow Dan tailgaters noticed my car in the lot, probably due to my license plate...
For others who aren't aware, Fogel authored the Metal Leg fan newsletter for many years. That whole set of liner notes is definitely the droll work of Walt & Don™.
More Fagen though, I'd say--I've seen a couple of his other writings.The missing tapes are a Big Deal™ though, and mention of them among some others in the industry sets the tongues to wagging, given the approximate time they disappeared from MCA's vaults...
CherryStreet
Member
Then you should definitley skip the SoCal Herb & Lani shows out here in SoCal in May & July!
70 bucks is a bargain for a big show like Steely Dan. You wouldn't believe what they are charging for good seats in Santa Monica & Orange County for Herb & Lani! And that's a 5 piece. Vibrato is a bargain compared to these other shows!
Speaking of Vibrato -A Steely Dan Touring Band alumni show is going on tonight at Vibrato with Peter Erskine - Drums, John Beasley - Piano & Pat Senatore - Bass! NO COVER! Talk about a bargain.
They take the stage at 6:30 and play sets until 10:30.
Yes Pete Fogel & Jim "Hoops" McKay are two of the "good guys".
Pete kept the "dream" alive for us during the "dark years". His partner Shari is also a lovely person.
In my best Hannibal Lecter voice, "Love the plate"
I only spoke to Pete and Shari briefly (if that's the same lady I met in '03). Nice folks! 
I was only expecting Hoops who had driven in from (I think) Chicago--we'd been in touch to figure out where to get a gang of us together at. We also tailgated with a handful of folks we met at the 2000 gig when we got over to the amphitheater--I wish I had remembered their names. It's neat to get together with fellow Dan followers like this.
Concerts have gotten well out of my league. If I get two tickets, that's a couple weeks of food for us here. Just not worth it. Folks up here no longer have something called "disposable income." For me, splurging is taking in a box of CDs for trade in vinyl at the local used record shops. 
I was only expecting Hoops who had driven in from (I think) Chicago--we'd been in touch to figure out where to get a gang of us together at. We also tailgated with a handful of folks we met at the 2000 gig when we got over to the amphitheater--I wish I had remembered their names. It's neat to get together with fellow Dan followers like this.Concerts have gotten well out of my league. If I get two tickets, that's a couple weeks of food for us here. Just not worth it. Folks up here no longer have something called "disposable income."
For me, splurging is taking in a box of CDs for trade in vinyl at the local used record shops.
IIRC, the rumor is that they disappeared around the time the first couple of CDs were released (mid 80s). Probably taken from the vault if they were indeed stolen, which has never been proven. (Thing is, given how MCA has mistreated some of the vault material over the decades, it could also be sitting in some unmarked box, or stored in an incorrectly labeled box also. I just hope nothing ended up at Iron Mountain, where a few (heh) tapes have ended up over the years.
Makes no sense for somebody to take them, if you think about it. What would they do with them? Can't sell them, since the buyer would know who took them. Holding them for a ransom wouldn't work either--again, it would admit guilt. Whoever had these would need a multitrack deck to play them back on, so playing them back is not practical. Would it be a "trophy" in someone's private collection?
Until this turns up, we'll never know...
Makes no sense for somebody to take them, if you think about it. What would they do with them? Can't sell them, since the buyer would know who took them. Holding them for a ransom wouldn't work either--again, it would admit guilt. Whoever had these would need a multitrack deck to play them back on, so playing them back is not practical. Would it be a "trophy" in someone's private collection?
Until this turns up, we'll never know...
Steven J. Gross
Well-Known Member
When a master is lost, what does that mean for future re-releases? If they had been remastered are those different tapes making the originals less important?
These are the multitrack tapes, not the 2-channel masters (which the multitrack is mixed down to). These two missing tracks are why they never released Aja in surround sound on SACD. If the original 2-track master is missing, then they have to use a copy of that for a remastering, so it won't sound as good.
Steven J. Gross
Well-Known Member
There's a lot of demo material out there if you know where to look.
There's an early version of "I Got The News" that was recorded during the Katy Lied sessions. One of my favorite studio outtakes--it's like a completely different song, very interesting chord structures. (This one sounds horrible due to being uploaded to YouTube--the bootleg is better without the garbled sound, but it is not perfect.)
This song is one of my favorites, and was never released. They had recorded "The Second Arrangement" for the Gaucho album, but it turned out that a second engineer (definitely not Roger Nichols ) erased the multitrack after all the hard work. They recorded it all a second time but were never happy with the outcome. This is the outcome of the second session, and I've never heard it any better than this quality (which is about AM radio quality). To be honest, this is better than a lot of what ended up on Gaucho. A great tale in typical Steely Dan fashion. A shame they never released it, and it has only been played in concert a couple of times during the past 15 years.
There's an early version of "I Got The News" that was recorded during the Katy Lied sessions. One of my favorite studio outtakes--it's like a completely different song, very interesting chord structures. (This one sounds horrible due to being uploaded to YouTube--the bootleg is better without the garbled sound, but it is not perfect.)
This song is one of my favorites, and was never released. They had recorded "The Second Arrangement" for the Gaucho album, but it turned out that a second engineer (definitely not Roger Nichols
) erased the multitrack after all the hard work. They recorded it all a second time but were never happy with the outcome. This is the outcome of the second session, and I've never heard it any better than this quality (which is about AM radio quality). To be honest, this is better than a lot of what ended up on Gaucho. A great tale in typical Steely Dan fashion. A shame they never released it, and it has only been played in concert a couple of times during the past 15 years.
Steven J. Gross
Well-Known Member
Roger was quite the inventor:
http://www.steelydan.com/eq.html
And, there was a nice (albeit brief) telephone interview with Donald Fagen regarding Roger's passing on NPR:
http://www.npr.org/blogs/therecord/...ely-dan-engineer-roger-nichols-dies-at-age-66
http://www.steelydan.com/eq.html
And, there was a nice (albeit brief) telephone interview with Donald Fagen regarding Roger's passing on NPR:
http://www.npr.org/blogs/therecord/...ely-dan-engineer-roger-nichols-dies-at-age-66
- Status
Similar discussions
