TJB Live
- Thread starter Steven J. Gross
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kenny
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When there was a lengthy discussion last year about what should be included in a TJB box set, I mentioned including live material. I got the feeling from the responses that no decent live material exists. I'm sure there is a good copy of the 1969 Royal Festival Hall show in a vault somewhere. Sure, Herb misses notes but I still think it's an incredible performance. Also, there is footage of the TJB playing at a State Fair in the Beat of the Brass special. I bet the whole show was taped. That being said, I doubt anything will ever be released officially. I bet the concerts were recorded well enough to release but the performances themselves were probably not considered good enough.
Captaindave
Well-Known Member
My guess would be that there is probably no existing recorded live material, especially that which would have been recorded for the express purpose of eventually being made available for sale to the public.
If any TJB performances were ever recorded(and I don't know if anyone really knows if they were), there was probably never any intent to turn those into "live" concert albums. I have a feeling that such recording ventures would not have been consistent with things I have read about Herb's attitude and philosophy about record - making anyway.
Any recordings of the performances listed above would have, in my opinion, never been intended to be released as concert recordings.
So, I doubt very much doubt that we will ever be seeing any "live" performance albums or recordings of any kind. For some reason, it just doesn't seem to me that Herb Alpert would have had any interest in producing any "live": concert albums, or he probably would have done so long ago.
If any TJB performances were ever recorded(and I don't know if anyone really knows if they were), there was probably never any intent to turn those into "live" concert albums. I have a feeling that such recording ventures would not have been consistent with things I have read about Herb's attitude and philosophy about record - making anyway.
Any recordings of the performances listed above would have, in my opinion, never been intended to be released as concert recordings.
So, I doubt very much doubt that we will ever be seeing any "live" performance albums or recordings of any kind. For some reason, it just doesn't seem to me that Herb Alpert would have had any interest in producing any "live": concert albums, or he probably would have done so long ago.
To me, it seems that recording a concert is a no-brainer! You're doing a show, so roll some tape.
I always speculated that Herb had recorded his Carnegie Hall appearance(s) for a live album, but I never had proof either way. What I do know, because I witnessed same, is that Herb recorded a concert at the Oakdale Music Theatre here in Connecticut in '74. Not only did he tell the audience that they were recording the show, but they did a 2nd take on "Coney Island."
I always speculated that Herb had recorded his Carnegie Hall appearance(s) for a live album, but I never had proof either way. What I do know, because I witnessed same, is that Herb recorded a concert at the Oakdale Music Theatre here in Connecticut in '74. Not only did he tell the audience that they were recording the show, but they did a 2nd take on "Coney Island."
To follow up Steve's post, there are two ways to record a concert:
1. The engineer rolls a "board tape", which is simply a two channel mix of whatever the final mix is. It's not ideal for releasing on LP because it may not be mixed optimally, and often, it's not recorded on the best equipment. I know Yellowjackets often run a cassette of each concert, and listen to it afterward...sort of self-critiquing or listening for room for improvement. A lot of bands do this. A lot of the time, these tapes are recorded over at a later time, or disposed of. They were never intended for public consumption.
2. Concerts that are recorded for eventual release means that the engineers usually have a multi-track machine on hand, and take extra steps to get good sound on tape. They will then mix the recording later, and often fix things with overdubs if the artist chooses. (Or if it's one of these newer so-called talents who couldn't carry a tune in a paper bag, the vocals have to be "pitch corrected".) Live performances usually need editing, sweetening and tweaking to sound as good as they do on the finished product.
The concert Steve mentions may be one that has been "in the can" for almost three decades now, just needing someone to go in and mix it, master it, and release it. If it was recorded on the Coney tour, and Herb decided the TJB was to cease to exist, he may have withheld its release on those grounds...and moved onto bigger and better things. If there are other board tapes, they may be listenable too...but ultimately, the artist may decide that the sound quality is too bad, or the performance too poor, to release it. A mediocre recording of a great performance certainly beats a 48-track digital recording of a band on a bad night!
There may very well be other live TJB tapes around, but like I said, they just may be unsuitable for public release. But for something that was purposefully recorded for eventual live release, there's a more than better chance of it seeing the light of day in an official release.
Now if the Alpert or A&M gang would speak up and let us know if it's ever going to happen...
1. The engineer rolls a "board tape", which is simply a two channel mix of whatever the final mix is. It's not ideal for releasing on LP because it may not be mixed optimally, and often, it's not recorded on the best equipment. I know Yellowjackets often run a cassette of each concert, and listen to it afterward...sort of self-critiquing or listening for room for improvement. A lot of bands do this. A lot of the time, these tapes are recorded over at a later time, or disposed of. They were never intended for public consumption.
2. Concerts that are recorded for eventual release means that the engineers usually have a multi-track machine on hand, and take extra steps to get good sound on tape. They will then mix the recording later, and often fix things with overdubs if the artist chooses. (Or if it's one of these newer so-called talents who couldn't carry a tune in a paper bag, the vocals have to be "pitch corrected".) Live performances usually need editing, sweetening and tweaking to sound as good as they do on the finished product.
The concert Steve mentions may be one that has been "in the can" for almost three decades now, just needing someone to go in and mix it, master it, and release it. If it was recorded on the Coney tour, and Herb decided the TJB was to cease to exist, he may have withheld its release on those grounds...and moved onto bigger and better things. If there are other board tapes, they may be listenable too...but ultimately, the artist may decide that the sound quality is too bad, or the performance too poor, to release it. A mediocre recording of a great performance certainly beats a 48-track digital recording of a band on a bad night!
There may very well be other live TJB tapes around, but like I said, they just may be unsuitable for public release. But for something that was purposefully recorded for eventual live release, there's a more than better chance of it seeing the light of day in an official release.
Now if the Alpert or A&M gang would speak up and let us know if it's ever going to happen...
Steven J. Gross
Well-Known Member
Maybe Herb can re-assemble a TJB and do a few nights at the Greek Theater for a Live TJB tribute CD. I wonder what label it would be released on?
A&M had some big success with live albums, Frampton Comes Alive and Procol Harum Live, which included one of the finest live songs of all time: Conquistador!!!
A&M had some big success with live albums, Frampton Comes Alive and Procol Harum Live, which included one of the finest live songs of all time: Conquistador!!!
Captaindave
Well-Known Member
DAN BOLTON
Well-Known Member
Captaindave said:
Probably not...but there IS an album that was purposely engineered to have a "live" feel...CONEY ISLAND has a very live sound, and that makes it a very unique and desirable album. It's probably as close as we'll get to a live album of TJB material. I know,,,I'd like a live album, too...
Dan NP RY COODER/MANUEL GALBAN:MAMBO SINUENDO[this one has a live feel to it, too...]
martin
Well-Known Member
The bonus track with "The Lonely Bull" on the Japanese Second Wind CD is obviously a live take, you can hear the noise from the audience in the background, so I would believe that one or probably more of the concerts on the Second Wind tour were recorded on multitrack equipment. It is more questionable if the German TV recording of the Passion Dance concert from Munich was recorded on multitrack but it still sounds pretty good.
- greetings from the north -
Martin
- greetings from the north -
Martin
martin
Well-Known Member
Absolutely. The whole recording process is getting simpler and a lot less expensive due to the technology. Nowadays you can do at home, what you used to pay big bucks to get in an expensive studio. That is not all good, by the way. Record companies tend to want to spend less money on the recordings and the big studios face problems with less work. I've just completed the production of a live album here in Norway. The last "live" album I produced was back in 95 and it's amazing how much "more" of the actual live takes that we were able to use this time, thanks to the improved editing possibilities.
- greetings from the north -
Martin
- greetings from the north -
Martin
Martin--with the right pro audio sound card, I could actually record up to 24-bit/96kHz multitrack right onto my hard drive. Using Sonic Foundry's Vegas, I can have an unlimited number of tracks to work with, using different DirectX plugins for noise gates, compression, EQ, reverb, echo, flanging...incredible. I could mix it down to two stereo tracks, dump it into CD Architect (or even a DVD-Audio authoring program), and burn a disc without the music ever having to leave the computer. As cheap as hard drives are, it's probably cheaper to buy an 80GB hard drive for $90 US than a good reel of Quantegy 499 for a 2" analog multitrack! Some guys dump their audio from the computer onto ADAT as a backup, too. Things certainly have changed! I've always wanted to record on a multitrack at home, and it gets closer to reality every day.
Simply said, I would be happy with any Herb Alpert live recording. I have his complete 1997 Munich gig (Passion Dance Tour) and I know there must be a 1996 Montreux Recording (featuring Jeff Lorber) that the Second Wind Japan CD bonus track mostly likely comes from. Unfortunately I am fishing for it for years with no success.
bob
Active Member
hello people, I was reading some of the posts, I do agree after all of these years why no TJB live recordings, so I was thinking what about the live recording from the Brass are comin' video, when they played live on the A&M sound stage for a small audience. could'nt they take the audio
portion from that and do a better mix, since the video is floating around. I got a copy of it, as the picture quality is 1st generation
recorded on DVD. I am sure they can get the audio portion from that.
bob papp
portion from that and do a better mix, since the video is floating around. I got a copy of it, as the picture quality is 1st generation
recorded on DVD. I am sure they can get the audio portion from that.
bob papp
DAN BOLTON
Well-Known Member
I don't know if anyone has mentioned it or not, but RISE was recorded pretty much in a live manner, with just a couple of guitar riffs overdubbed...Mike Lang appears to make a mistake on the last piano chorus...but the song cooks, anyway. Randy Badazz talked about how Rise was recorded in a previous thread. All the musicians were placed together on the soundstage, with Herb in the middle, I believe...
Dan
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