What is a successful album?

[Michael Hagerty]

In the case of The Beatles and Elton John, once they became enormously successful, they started their own record labels. The Beatles created Apple Records.

And what a nightmare that turned out to be.

The Beatles were still under contract to EMI at the time Apple was founded, so EMI continued to own the recordings that came out with Apple labels on them and agreed to distribute Apple product until that deal ended in 1976. By that time, the Beatles had been suing each other for six years trying to shut Apple down and end the bleeding.

Elton John formed The Rocket Record Company. Elton's record company signed Neil Sedaka and, if I remember correctly, Heart.

Sedaka yes, Heart, no. They went from Mushroom to Epic.

But I don't think Elton ever recorded his own albums on his own record label, for reasons that aren't clear to me.

BLUE MOVES was on Rocket, as was his duet single with Kiki Dee, "Don't Go Breaking My Heart". He went back to MCA after BLUE MOVES until 1996, when Rocket, which had been dormant, was re-activated. Four of his albums (MADE IN ENGLAND, THE BIG PICTURE, SONGS FROM THE WEST COAST and PEACHTREE ROAD) were all on Rocket. Elton moved to Mercury after that.

This makes me wonder if Richard or Karen ever considered starting their own record company. From what I can tell, it never entered their mind.

They had enough trouble without owning their own label.

I'm having trouble thinking of any that were more than an imprint (Rolling Stones Records, for example) that had long-term consistent success (A&M doesn't count---but Almo Sounds would).

Reprise was a disaster when Frank Sinatra owned it---which is why he sold it to Warners. Maybe Madonna's label, Maverick, which had million-sellers from not just Madonna, but Alanis Morrisette. And Swan Song, founded by Led Zeppelin, which had them, Bad Company, Dave Edmunds, Sad Cafe' and the solo output from Jimmy Page and Robert Plant.

 

[Michael Hagerty]

Thanks for the book recommendation. I might have to pick up a copy.

I can't recommend it highly enough. Educational and wildly entertaining. Again, Stan was one helluva writer.

 

[Mark-T]

I can't find anything.

When artists' contracts with a label expire, there's usually an agreement made as to how to proceed---in some cases, the artist accepts a lump sum and the label then keeps whatever money it makes on future sales of the albums that were recorded while the artist was with the label. That also gives the label carte blanche to raid the vault for unreleased material.

Some simply agree that the royalty checks will keep coming for catalog sales (there may be some negotiation on the percentage---especially if an artist's popularity has fallen after signing a killer deal) until and unless there's a subsequent agreement.

Wealthier artists---Paul McCartney, Paul Simon---will sometimes buy their recordings back from the label and sell or lease them to their new home, or make ownership of their product part of a contract negotiation while still with the label. Herb retained ownership of his recordings as part of the sale of A&M.

Given that everything up to this point has been on A&M (to the extent that A&M exists), I'm guessing Richard either took a lump sum or agreed to continuing royalty payments. I'd be surprised if he still has an active contract with UMG.

Thank you, Michael.

 

[GDBY2LV]

No, not Heart. The most successful acts were Neil Sedaka, Kiki Dee, Blue, Hudson Brothers. Elton did release some music on Rocket, before he signed with Geffen.

 

[newvillefan]

The most successful acts were Neil Sedaka, Kiki Dee, Blue, Hudson Brothers. Elton did release some music on Rocket, before he signed with Geffen.

Ironically, Neil Sedaka released his comeback album ‘Sedaka’s Back’ on Elton’s Rocket Records label, and Kiki Dee was also a featured artist on the label for some years. I always felt Elton had a soft spot for Kiki Dee, who he took under his wing, supporting her by recording a couple of duets with her, and who I have thought for years was a very underrated artist.

 

[GDBY2LV]

I think he did too. Even stranger, after her 2nd album for the label,” I’ve got the music in me” he hired her band away to play on his records, and then tour with this new group too. He let all his old band members go. She did marry his guitar player, Davy Johnston during that time. They later divorced. Elton eventually brought his old band back though, for recording and touring.

 

[newvillefan]

I think he did too. Even stranger, after her 2nd album for the label,” I’ve got the music in me” he hired her band away to play on his records, and then tour with this new group too. He let all his old band members go. She did marry his guitar player, Davy Johnston during that time. They later divorced. Elton eventually brought his old band back though, for recording and touring.

Wow - that’s all news to me.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

I've seen Elton John 4 times: First right after his 21 at 33 album came out, next during his tour supporting The Fox, and most recently twice during his "hits" tour a few years ago. It was kinda surreal to know that some of those guys onstage the last time were the same people who had played on the records all those years ago, after all the changes over the years.

I've always been a big fan of drummer Nigel Olsson, who had an album of his own that was pretty good. I think it was on Rocket too, but didn't sell much. That was an album I liked enough to play in the store a lot, but it didn't help, sadly.

 

[goodjeans]

I've seen Elton John 4 times: First right after his 21 at 33 album came out, next during his tour supporting The Fox, and most recently twice during his "hits" tour a few years ago. It was kinda surreal to know that some of those guys onstage the last time were the same people who had played on the records all those years ago, after all the changes over the years.

I've always been a big fan of drummer Nigel Olsson, who had an album of his own that was pretty good. I think it was on Rocket too, but didn't sell much. That was an album I liked enough to play in the store a lot, but it didn't help, sadly.

"Put on Your Dancing Shoes."

 

[Michael Hagerty]

"Put on Your Dancing Shoes."

Epic worked SO hard on that record---they thought sure they had a hit. Only got to #18.

 

[Portlander]

But it reached #8 on the Adult Contemporary charts Michael!

 

[Randy M]

And if you're forgetting entirely that there's a record company involved that has infinitely more at stake on that record than the artists do, sure.

Artist royalty agreements mean that the artist gets paid for every unit sold....whether or not that record is profitable. Yeah, the artist is a lot happier with the royalty check for a million-seller than for a stiff that only moves 10,000 copies, and sometimes a previously commerically-successful artist will choose art over commerce (Harry Nilsson, Michael Nesmith), but the record company is on the line for nearly all of the costs associated with that art.

Let's not forget Lou Reed's Metal Machine Music album. I bought the damn thing twice, LP then the CD.