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"A Taste Of Honey" footage -- Probably early '66

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hi all, I did see that video posted of the tjb on the ed sullivan show. that was from 65 becasue a taste of honey was released in 65. that video has been floating around on a bootleg. but the one I remember from 65 as I am now 51 born in 56. was the tjb playing both a taste of honey and 3rd man theme. but I can't find that one. well I tried emailing to sofa productions ed sullivan show but nothing. so I thought I would share that will you all.
take care
bob
 
Glad to see it's an actual performance and not a "horn-sync." I noticed a lot of marimba in the mix but no sign of Julius onstage...maybe he was off to the side playing?
 
I was too young to have seen (or remember) the original TjB TV appearances; so, for me, it's exciting to see any promotional films, TV variety show appearances, or concert footage. (This is only the second such event I've seen to date.)

Visually, what immediately struck me was the attire -- including Herb's bow tie. Singularly, he looks quite dashing; there's no confusion as to who leads this "new" band!

As for the performance, which appears to be "live", the group seems a little timid overall -- particularly the drum kit fills which lack punch. The arrangement is spartan and seems consistent with the instruments present: my ears don't seem to pick up any marimba or other overdubs, and the piano is definitely low in the mix.

I like how Mr. Alpert conducts the ad libitum section -- he was quite the showman right from the start!

-James[/i]
 
Maybe it's the way it sounds on my speakers here, but it sure sounds like a marimba in the background to me.

I also hear some mandolin in there, but nobody is visible playing one.
 
This would have been typical for the times. Much different back then when contrasted with today's live performances.

I don't hear any extra instruments beyond what you see on the video.
This is exactly the way the TJB performed back then. But, the sound on this video doesn't come close to doing them justice. They sounded far better in concert than what you hear on this recording.

They played the songs with the seven man band as shown. There was some slight difference in sound between the recordings and the live performance - to be expected. But, having heard the original seven man band 3 times in the sixties, the sound was tight and extremely polished. The horn section was superb and the rhythm section was very tight. Those seven didn't need any help. Herb only took the players on the road for concerts that he felt provided the necessary sound on stage to recreate the songs on concert. Most people in the audience would know the melody, wanted to hear the hits and other popular songs, and hear and see Herb Alpert play them.

One of the great things about them was they played every note and everything you heard was genuine playing. No faking or syncing to recordings of any kind like today's performers - so many of whom can't really play or sing anyway... these guys were masters of their instruments. They always ended their show with Zorba the Greek - the only other instrument on stage was a tympani for Bob Edmondson. You knew you were hearing the "real deal" when they played that one...
 
Thanks for the critique, Captain Dave.

It must've been quite The Call to see the group back in their day. I gave the performance another couple listens: John's playing a 12-string electric -- the top three strings of which are usually tuned one octave above the their counterparts...this gives his guitar a shimmering sound (remember all those great Byrds LPs?) the upper harmonics of which may be producing sounds similar to a mandolin; it's particularly noticeable during the ad libitum sections.

Hey, Captain, how do you remember their sound as a cohesive group? Since a few of the members apparently didn't play (regularly) on the LPs, I wonder how different they came off in concert.

--James
 
IMO, the concert sound tended to be a little jazzier on some songs.

The first time I heard the group was in August, 1968. By then, they had played together on the road for about 3 years or so. Herb hand picked these guys, and they all had extensive performing backgrounds before the TJB, especially in jazz and various big band settings. So when you put them all together, they could really swing, and you could hear some of that jazz/swing influence come through in concert. Probably more so than the recordings. They added little "twists and turns" to some of the arrangements - you can see a bit of an example they way they do Taste of Honey on this video clip. A little different than the recording. When they played Winds of Barcelona and Lonely Bull, there was a little bit more of a rock feel and sound than the recordings of those songs.

As an ensemble, they were very "tight" and sounded very well rehearsed. It appeared that the show had been thoroughly planned in advance, and that night after night of performance had created a very strong cohesiveness. They moved effortlessly through a song list of all the hits and may other album favorites, including a couple well-planned and rehearsed medleys of songs, interspersed with Herb "working" and entertaining the audience with talk. At that time This Guy's in Love was a current big hit on the radio...The Checkmates LTD were the "warm-up" group in that particular set of concerts - it was a two night stand. The TJB then played two sets with an intermission. Concert started about 8:30 - ended about 11:00, including the Checkmates and the intermissions.

The TJB were also one of the very first touring groups back in the sixties to carry their own custom designed sound system, which allowed for quite a bit of control over the sound. I think that made quite a big difference also.

The sound was very clean and full, the horns were crystal clear and rode along effortlessly on top of the very strong and tight rhythm foundation. No doubt the arrangements were a little simpler than the studio recordings, but I think that once they started playing with that seven man group of jazzers and swingers, you would have not paid any attention to any minor differences because the sound was that good and the performance was excellent.
 
Wow! Thanks for the valuable reminiscence, Captain.

Given you saw them three times, beginning with AUG68 -- you then definitely caught them on their downswing from peak popularity (using album sales as a gauge).

Three questions:
  • Given Mr. Alpert was a pacesetter with live sound reproduction, and your assessment that the shows you saw were A-1 quality -- what's your opinion as to why no live recordings have been issued to date?

    On numbers that featured marimba: Marimba is integral to the group's sound, yet was not apparently (regularly) played by any group member. Given the presence of no marimba, was that part incorporated into the guitar/piano? (I've seen still photos of Lou manning the marimba; however, Julius has stated that he himself played all mallet parts. This suggests that Lou was either not a "choice" musician for the instrument, or may not have actually played the instrument.)

    Similarly with the mandolin: Conjecture tells me BMB alumnus Bud (and later Charlie C.) played these parts on Lps -- I wonder if John ever whipped out the instrument in concert. (I know nothing of Lou's musical career; however, John's is well documented and he is an excellent electric guitarist.)
Thanks.

~James
 
Lou Pagani was shown "playing" the marimba, but it was for show only whenever there was footage of the TJB doing the pantomine of songs. He couldn't actually play it, and if you watch closely enough he's all over the place and not in sync at all on the marimba parts.



Capt. Bacardi
 
HA & the TJB were sooo classy. Wouldn't it be great to turn on Leno or Letterman at night and see groups like Brazil 66, TJB, BMB, Ventures, Beach Boys, BS&T, etc. Instead of these cookie cutter boy bands that try to out grunge each other? There's a lot of jazz and smooth jazz acts I would stay up late at night to watch but I guess that type of talent doesn't work well on TV any more. Oh well.... :confused:
 
The probable reason no live recordings have been issued is, none were made (or kept). It wasn't standard practice to record every concert then the way it is now.

Also, technology for capturing live recordings wasn't nearly as good then as now. Just listen to the old Beatles or Stones live records for proof. The TJB was at its peak in the studio anyway, so it's likely that if any live recordings exist, Herb has kept them from release for quality control reasons.
 
I'll agree with the comments above about live recordings. I believe I am correct when I say that live recordings of concert performances are a product of more recent times. Very few such recordings were made back in the sixties that I know of, other than the TV specials. The music video didn't exist as it is known today, and the bulk of recorded music was played on radio. The closest thing you will see to live concert footage is video clips like posted on this thread, or TV specials.

I also think that back then, it wasn't so critical to reproduce the exact studio sound note for note. Just going to a concert featuring a big-time act like the TJB was a huge event in itself. The whole live concert thing was in a much more primitive state of infancy as compared to today.

Although the marimba is often heard on the studio recordings, it was not the central focus of the Tijuana Brass. The Tijuana Brass showcased Herb Alpert, and it was the trumpet that was the central focus of the group. The marimba was a supporting instrument on studio recordings. In concert, having the marimba present wasn't so important. The rhythm duties were ably handled by the four accompanying players, and the trumpet was the featured instrument. The concerts that I mentioned above that I attended in 1968 had a combined audience of over 25,000 on two nights. IMO, few people in those audiences knew or cared that a marimba was missing - or even what a marimba was. The average concert-goer didn't recognize or care about the details of the studio recordings or slight differences in live vs studio arrangements of songs. They did know the trumpet and the melodies, and that was the focus of the live performances.

Another example was This Guy's In Love...No orchestration as on the studio recording, and it was performed since it was a huge hit at that very time. It was rearranged so that all the orchestration just wasn't included. When they played Slick (BOTB), there were no vibes...they just played the song without it. On Love Potion #9, the trombone played the sax line. The trombone played the guitar solo in the middle of Lonely Bull.

In concert, the essential TJB sound was brass lead and rhythm accompaniment. Nothing else was needed to reproduce the songs in live performance for the public.

With the reformed edition of the TJB in the 1970s, Julius Wechter did tour with that reformed group, and the marimba was on stage with the rest of the band.

It would be interesting to speculate how much differently Herb would organize and present a concert like this if it were today under today's conditions and expectations.
 
captain dave
that was the show august 1968 here at the blossom music center, that when I was sharing with all of you guys I was 12 at the time, and they were just setting up the stage hands and so I went down to watch them and herb came walking in and so did tonni kalash and that is where I got there autographs I still have them to this day. then all 3 of us went back stage and herb took a picture of me and one with tonni. then I remember the rain poured for the 1st night. I wanted to hear the play zorba the greek live but my parents wanted to leave. so till this day I never heard the live version played live on stage, I heard it on tape with the reoriniged tjb from 1984 but that to me is not the same.
bob
 
Yes, that was the concert... I was 17 at the time and went both nights.

We had pavilion seats the first night and sat on the lawn the second night.

I don't remember the rain, however.

I do remember Herb singing a verse of This Guy's in Love, and then looking into the audience, and as if to say directly to someone..."Would you like to dance?"

The sound and arrangement of Zorba the Greek was very much like the recording, if I remember correctly.

Wow, it will be 40 years ago this upcoming year.
 
Thank you, Captains Dave and Bacardi --

Was hoping for a more hopeful opinion regarding the likelihood of a live recording out there...somewhere (someday). Particularly would be interesting to hear if any of the Warm material made it into the concert book. (As much as I enjoy the orchestrations, it'd be really cool to hear the combo arrangements of these fine pieces.) Captain D -- do I understand an earlier post to mention that the band would play "other" pop hits of the day...if this is so, were there any significant or unusual covers that stick out (just curious!)?

As for Lou and the marimba: that must've been quite the directive from "management" -- to have a member of the band pretend to play another instrument! I'm sure such "pantomime" (nice way to put it!) is nothing new in the (visual) performing arts -- no doubt pandering to the casual connoisseur; nevertheless, given the high-quality reputation of the TjB, I'm surprised. They could've at least flipped for it...but given the combo instrumentation, the piano chair was the most vulnerable. Still, as this was all eye candy anyway, they should've had Bob pantomime the marimba -- I get a feeling from some of the group photos that he had a big personality and contributed much spirited mirth to the group.

~James
 
If the WARM-era songs ever made to the concert halls, it was only for a short time. A couple of them were used in the BRASS ARE COMIN' TV special, but they were just the recorded versions on that TV show.

Herb and the boys never did much in the way of playing cover songs - but they did pick "Music To Watch Girls By" within a medley of songs they did "that have been awfully good to us in the last five years".

Harry
 
No, I did not mean to imply that the TJB covered other artists' songs.

They did some Beatles songs, such as All My Loving, With A Little Help From My Friends, Ob-La-Di Ob-La-Da, and Ill Be Back. The also did The Happening, which had been done by the Supremes.

On just about every album you can find songs that are not TJB originals, and had been written and performed by other artists. For example, Frank Sinatra did South Of The Border and It Was A Very Good Year. Tommy Dorsey was the original on I'm Getting Sentimental Over You. Horst Jankowski did A Walk In The Black Forest. There are a few others as well. So, they did record songs that had also been recorded by other artists. But, all these songs have an originality with regard to the TJB arrangements and sound.

There were also many original songs, often written by Sol Lake, which carry the signature TJB sound and style.
 
When I saw the TJB in October, 1969 (the final concert tour), there were no songs from Warm. They did play Good Morning, Mr, Sunshine from TBAC.

And yes, the audience at that concert had dwindled quite a bit from the huge crowd that attended the August, 1968 concerts - just a little over a year earlier.
 
That OCT69 show must've been bittersweet ~

Thanks for sharing your memories, Captain D.

~James

btw, Good Morning Mr. Sunshine is a heck of a number -- hearkens back to the more MexiCali offerings of South Of The Border (my personal fav TjB LP). Incidentally, I prefer Herb putting more air through the horn and producing a rich, legato tone -- as he does on the early LPs...his tone reaching a gorgeous, shimmering, metallic brilliance on SOTB and !!Going Places!! -- as opposed to those shorter, staccato-like, rhythmic burst of tone that tend to characterize his sound on the later TjB LPs.
 
On just about every album you can find songs that are not TJB originals,
Click to expand...
Make that "every album." They always had a mix of originals, covers, show tunes or popular hits of the day. This was very common in that era...in fact a lot of the chart hits of the time were artists doing songs that had already been charted by others. This was before the British Invasion (led by the Beatles and the Stones) encouraged more artists to be songwriters as well as singers/players. So the TJB were innovators in that they featured more originals than was normal at the time.
 
I think the fact that most bands covered a lot of other artists' hits in the sixties is irrelevant. Herb was best at, and it seems he loved to do his own thing with material other than his own. He was an excellent arranger, and someone might not even recognize some of the covers. It might of had something to do with his background. Jazz musicians like playing other people's tunes as well as their own.
 
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