"Aguas de Março," from JOBIM (1972)

[seashorepiano]

I've been listening a couple of times to the track "Aguas de Março" sung by Jobim in Portuguese from the Verve/MGM album Jobim. The CD version I have was released in the Verve By Request series.

I can't help but notice a very annoying hissing sound that seems to follow all the instruments and his vocals. I love the song, but the track grates on my ears with all the hissing. I've tried toying with my equalizer, and have been able to bring the hiss down a bit, but then I end up deadening the track.

Has anyone here experienced the same, or a similar, problem? Any gripes with the Verve By Request series overall? Any answers would be GREATLY appreciated.

 

[Rudy]

I've been listening a couple of times to the track "Aguas de Março" sung by Jobim in Portuguese from the Verve/MGM album Jobim. The CD version I have was released in the Verve By Request series.

I can't help but notice a very annoying hissing sound that seems to follow all the instruments and his vocals. I love the song, but the track grates on my ears with all the hissing. I've tried toying with my equalizer, and have been able to bring the hiss down a bit, but then I end up deadening the track.

Has anyone here experienced the same, or a similar, problem? Any gripes with the Verve By Request series overall? Any answers would be GREATLY appreciated.

Overall, I've found the Verve By Request series to sound decent. I just dug out this CD, though...I can't quite put my finger on what kind of hiss it is that you are hearing, but I hear *something*. I hear some wierdness in the left channel that almost sounds like someone breathing with a microphone open. Aside from that, when a few instrumental parts come in, I hear a marked increase in hiss. (When the whistling comes in on the bridge, I *really* hear it.) This *could be* noise reduction side effects you're hearing, but with other parts of this song, it does *not* sound like noise reduction. I have the treble up quite a bit now to try and hear all the hiss, though, and aside from some strangeness every now and then, I don't hear much else that's too out of whack. If they used noise reduction, all the tracks on the disc would sound strange...and they all sound quite natural. Since it's only one track, I am inclined to believe that it is something that was on the original recording. It could have been when they mixed down from a multitrack, they opened up the fader on those channels and that added hiss goes up in level because of it.

Your comment about the hiss "following" the music, though, reminds me of a classic case of digital noise reduction. (That's what kills the Rebound version of "Fool On The Hill" by Brasil '66...once you hear it and know it is there, iti's unlistenable.) But unless they used very light noise reduction across the whole CD, I don't really hear it as being noise reduction. If there's hiss, I'd rather hear it just like it came off the master tape--unaltered, and constant throughout the music. To have it vary in level or render an analog recording *completely* quiet just sounds unnatural...and the side effect of it mucking with the music isn't good either.

If you have any specific track timings, by all means post them here and I'll give a listen! Interesting though, as I think I DO hear what you're hearing!

 

[seashorepiano]

Hey Rudy, thanks for the comment! Very interesting information. I agree with what you've said about the definite hiss during the bridge and with the whistling.

Here's a few points in the track where I think the hiss becomes insistent:

0:13 [on vocal]
0:30 -- a brief, second-long hiss that noticeably rises to volume of vocal

After 0:35 it sounds like Jobim's voice was channeled in twice, or sounds like it has been split. This is where I think you're talking about that weird sound of the whisper. It almost sounds like two Jobims are singing at once. I don't know whether this was an additional vocal overlay to enhance the vocals, or to add to their aesthetic value.

Strangely enough, the overdubbed strings and other instruments seem to present no additional hiss in and of themselves.

The hissing becomes almost predominant at 3:10 and following.

There are other instances of hissing, but I think that these examples stand out most. Let me know what you (and all others interested) think.

 

[JMK]

Y'all probably know this already, but Jobim is actually a US licensed release of a Brasilian release originally titled Matita Pere. There is a much better mastered CD (IMHO, of course--and as I've stated before, I'm certainly no audiophile) from the original submaster out on Mercury/Polygram under that title. I just played the two CDs back to back and there is noticeably more hiss on the Verve release, not to mention it seems to have been mastered at several dBs softer. Personally, it sounds to me like they phase-shifted Jobim's overdubbed vocals, but I do hear that weirdness at about :30. It almost sounds like someone opened a mike for a second then realized what they had done.

 

[Rudy]

Personally, it sounds to me like they phase-shifted Jobim's overdubbed vocals, but I do hear that weirdness at about :30. It almost sounds like someone opened a mike for a second then realized what they had done.

I agree--it does sound like some random weirdness in the mix more than anything.

Do you remember which LP label it was released on originally in the US? I only mention it because my Verve By Request copy has the 70s MCA logo on it, and I've found that for the majority of the VBR series, they usually got the original label correct. I know with Verve, Mercury, Polygram, MCA, etc. being the same entity these days, it really could end up on *any* label (and therefore it would be a little pointless anyway).

 

[seashorepiano]

Rudy wrote:

Do you remember which LP label it was released on originally in the US? I only mention it because my Verve By Request copy has the 70s MCA logo on it...

I think the MCA label on the CD is reliable. I briefly came across the LP in a used record shop in Boston one time and noticed the MCA logo printed on both sides of the record.

 

[Brasil_Nut]

I'm not sure if maybe it had something to do with the master tapes or not.

As Jeff said, it was a reissue of a Brasilian release. In light of this, quite a few of my Brasilian Jobim albums had the "hiss" problem. One reason might be Tom's habit of singing directly (and when I say directly, I mean directly!!) into the microphone. Tom had a soft singing voice; I assume he sung into the microphone to "bring up the tone" as it were.

Otherwise, any hiss associated with these albums was pretty much the norm -- to my ears, that is. Some were better than others. The MCA releases were pretty good; some of the Columbia's were more "hissy" than others, too. The best, as far as my Lp collection is concerned, were the Warner albums. They sounded fairly decent.

Jon

 

[seashorepiano]

Thanks for the heads-up on the MCA albums, Jon! I quite honestly am severely lacking in my record collection in that department, so I know what to expect from now on when buying LPs.

A thought just popped into my head... comparison time: any of you have Bill Evans's From Left to Right (1969/1970)? That was also released originally on MCA -AND- released on Verve By Request as well. I recall a lot of hissing on some of those tracks, boy! And what with the almost ridiculous amount of overdubbing...

 

[JMK]

It was definitely an MCA release on LP. I had it for years.

 

[jimac51]

BTW,the Bill Evans album in discussion was originally an MGM release-MCA(by then Universal)did not have their grubby little hands on this till the Universal/Polygram merger a few yeas back. The entire music divison of MGM was a shambles when FROM LEFT TO RIGHT was originaly released and the resulting mess combined with the obvious commercial leanings on the original issue are probabble reasons why this was an MGM release. The interesting "jazz" parts of this album did not come to light till the complete box set and subsequent seperate CD release with the outtakes as bonus tracks. Of interest- the parameters of the complete box meant that FROM LEFT TO RIGHT made the cut as part of the complete Verve holdings but an earlier MGM pop crossover THEME FROM THE VIPS AND OTHER THEMES(a la Kai Winding's MORE success at the time) was considered still too pop to make the box set and,at least in the US,remains the "lost" Bill Evans album that Universal controls-heck,I don't think this was ever reissued no matter how much the Bill Evans catalog was milked by various owners of MGM's music holdings. This is a shame partially because Bill and Claus perform a slavishly accurate reading of Pete Jolly's "Sweet September" that shows just how much fun Pete's original was to listen to and sad that these two giants couldn't(or weren't allowed to) find something more interesting to say on this track. Mac

 

[seashorepiano]

Thanks Mac, you're right. I got the names confused. I guess it burns my argument about MCA albums a little bit, but I would still stick to my point about the hissing on that album. I think I could also venture to say that overdubbing done incorrectly could cause a lot of needless noise.

Thanks for the info on MGM. From what you've said it seems like they really were in a mess.

 

[mcurtis]

Find the Jobim - Elis Regina album with the song on it. It was a massive hit and the album itself is one of the top 10 international albums. Elis sang the song earlier than 1974 while Jobim was still working on it. She got tired of waiting for him. Discovering Elis Regina will be an adventure for you.

Mike Curtis

 

[JMK]

Find the Jobim - Elis Regina album with the song on it. It was a massive hit and the album itself is one of the top 10 international albums. Elis sang the song earlier than 1974 while Jobim was still working on it. She got tired of waiting for him. Discovering Elis Regina will be an adventure for you.

Mike Curtis

I think if you search the archives here you'll find that Elis has been talked about quite a bit, including her duet album with Tom. Quite a few of Elis' early albums are readily available at your neighborhood Border's store in the Brazil section.

 

[mcurtis]

Sorry, I'm new to this place. I have all her albums actually. Thhis would not be her debut album for she had been singing for quite some time before she met up to record with Jobim. She sang this song first in 1972 as I said. I comment on your use of the word debut album for it is deceptive. It would be like saying that Sinatra's debut album with Jobim was in 1967. In both cases these are not debut albums but a choice by each artist to work with Jobim and his music. It might apply more to Sinatra because he hadn't recorded Bossa before the 1967 album with Jobim whereas Elis had been recording Jobim songs for quite some time.

Also the Waters of March has been picked up by Jane Monheit and seems to be included in her live song list.

Incidently, all Elis Regina albums are early since she died in January of 1982. Her daughter is quite good and has a record out. Maria Rita.

I'm glad to read that Elis has been discussed.

Mike

 

[JMK]

Hi, Mike--I think you misread my post. I never said "debut" album, I said "duet" album. And by early albums at Border's, I'm talking about the mid-60s. For some reason (at least at the Border's in my neck of the woods) they don't have anything later than about 1966 in stock.

 

[mcurtis]

There are some sights where you can pick up her earlier stuff.

http://www.dustygroove.com/ the pricing is fair.

http://www.caravanmusic.com/ is a bit pricey

Don't forget about Nara Leao for Jobim and other bossa.

Elis first two records were more or less samba powder-puff but her voice is very pretty. She liked to sing full voiced. Her material with Jair Rodrigues is must-have music.

Sorry for misreading, I tend to cross letters as I grow older.

Mike

 

[Aqua do Brasil]

Rudy wrote:

Do you remember which LP label it was released on originally in the US? I only mention it because my Verve By Request copy has the 70s MCA logo on it...

In fact it was A New York studio production. Recorded in 1972, with Ron Carter and/of Richard Daviies on bass, Jerry Dogdion, Phil Bodner, George Marge and Eddie Daniels on flutes and Urbie Green on trombone, with Joao Palma on drums and Airto on percussion. And strings under direction and arranged by the great Claus Ogerman.
Recorded at the Columbia Studios in New York by the late legend recording engineer Frank Laico.

I loved especially the the flutes and string combination-arrangments, and my highlights are the songs Ana Luiza and Matita Perere. I obtained the originaally MCA Lp version ande The Braziolian release Matita Perere on CD on the Mercury label -Polygram-

All the beste Aqua do Brasil .

 

[seashorepiano]

Hey Sjef! Haven't seen you here in some time, pal!

I had wondered about where it had been recorded for some time. That it was recorded in New York is interesting, because Jobim had been so heavily involved at van Gelder's place in Englewood Cliffs. Then again, by this time (1972) he had moved on to MCA.

The flute/string arrangements are some of the best I've heard from Ogerman. One of my favorite tracks is the brief tone poem by Jobim, "Tempo do mar." Very reminiscent of and influenced by Debussy here. Excellent and meticulous conducting here!


NP: "Tempo do mar," JOBIM (1972)