Best Herb Alpert CD?

[Steven J. Gross]

This promo CD of Herb's is probably my favorite compilation, with stuff not seen on any other available CD and really an Alpert fan's bonanza. I have a copy and I understand there were but 1000 "minted".

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1056&item=931365840

 

[Harry]

This promo CD of Herb's is probably my favorite compilation, with stuff not seen on any other available CD and really an Alpert fan's bonanza. I have a copy and I understand there were but 1000 "minted".

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1056&item=931365840

And it seems like all 1000 have ended up on eBay!

If there truly are only a limited number of these, then I feel fortunate to have gotten one. While I like the varied selection that this compilation offers (all "home-grown" tunes), my biggest problem is the jarring back-and-forth between the TJB-era and the solo-era. As a result, I don't spin these too often.

Harry
...noting that "Bo-Bo" is the only track on these two discs that never appeared elsewhere on CD, online...

 

[Steven J. Gross]

...noting that "Bo-Bo" is the only track on these two discs that never appeared elsewhere on CD, online...

Which means "Sounds Like" was never, released on CD even in Japan? MAKES NO SENSE! It could probably actually re-enter the charts today.

 

[Harry]

Nope, the following were never, EVER released on CD, even in Japan:

Sounds Like
Herb Alpert's Ninth
Warm
Summertime

and from the new TJB:

You Smile, The Song Begins
Coney Island.

Sad, isn't it!

Harry
...about to watch our yearly dose of WHITE CHRISTMAS, online...

 

[Steven J. Gross]

...and those were titles that should have been released first!

Still hoping......

 

[DAN BOLTON]

Nope, the following were never, EVER released on CD, even in Japan:

Sounds Like
Herb Alpert's Ninth
Warm
Summertime

and from the new TJB:

You Smile, The Song Begins
Coney Island.

Sad, isn't it!

Harry
...about to watch our yearly dose of WHITE CHRISTMAS, online...

What about THE BRASS ARE COMIN'...wasn't it in that group, as well ?


Dan, full of Christmas memories, but not TJB ones...

 

[Rudy]

Dan--The Brass Are Comin' was apparently on CD briefly in Japan, sort of like S.R.O. Had I ever known they were available, I probably would have bought them.

 

[DAN BOLTON]

Me, too...oh, well...there's always ebay[the feedback shows you won't get hosed...]...


Dan

 

[Steven J. Gross]

Here is a current Brass are Comin' CD on Ebay. I think that these albums are being remastered for release soon. Just a hunch.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1057&item=931896468

 

[Steven J. Gross]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1579&item=932052990


At these prices, doesn't the record company know they are losing lots of sales? WAKE UP!!!

 

[jimac51]

Though there is definitely a market for Herb's recorded output,as you have seen many times,the sale of one collectable album at outrageous prices does not necessarily translate into potential sales to the masses. The collectable market is a goofy world,filled with people willing to pay anything to complete a set,fill a hole or bring back a memory. As someone who stocked Herb's available domestic albums on both CD and tape in retail throughout the '90s,I can tell you with authority that their sales were few and far between even at midline prices. I kept them in the system primarily because of sentimental reasons and to prove to browsers that we indeed had a deep inventory. As much as I've personally wanted the complete TJB/Alpert catalog on CD,I've never felt the need to get them any other way than conventional domestic releases. There is so much more stuff out there,(right now I'm personally exploring some late Ellington,late-50s Art Blakey,the "Last Waltz" audio box,Sinatra's TV duets and some cutout Christmas CDs). I just wait till the moment is $$$ right and,till then,spin my LPs. Mac

 

[DAN BOLTON]

I'll bet that TBAC CD will go for at least $100.00...too rich for my blood...I'd be afraid to play it. It IS nice to see that people value these things, though.


Dan

 

[Rudy]

One thing that has really bothered me is that these CDs don't sound all that good to begin with. S.R.O. is awful. Worse, even, than the domestics sounded. That was the 80's rush of "throw the LP masters onto CD". If there's any remastering in the works, it's long overdue and well deserved. And it will be funny to watch that collector market deflate faster than a punctured balloon if the bins were full of TJB product once again.

I've managed to clean up my vinyl good enough that having these on CD is just a matter of some dubbing and cleanup time on the computer. Unless I had headphones on or had the volume cranked beyond the limits of sanity, I can barely notice they're not CDs anyway. So yes, I'd be glad to have new official copies. but they're not high on my list. I have way too many other LPs in not-so-good condition, and impossible to find in clean condition, that I'd be more anxious to get those on CD first.

In fact, I just ordered Cal Tjader's Soul Bird: Whiffenpoof CD reissue from half.com. I've had three LP copies, and have yet to find one that's playable! (I have a stereo copy that's trashed, a halfway-decent mono, and a worn-out mono.) With all the clean A&M vinyl I've found, I have no overwhelming need to own them all on CD. 25 cents and an hour or two at the computer and I HAVE a CD.

Over the years I've seen some argue that if the TJB CDs were released again, there would be this huge swell in popularity and the CDs would sell in large numbers. But Mac says something in his post that I've been saying for awhile now in general--nostalgia doesn't sell. Yes, there will be some initial buying by a lot of us collectors, and others who stumble across them, but they would never enjoy runaway popularity. There's a reason the big labels put out compilations--it's easier to sell a collection of 10 hits, vs. 10 albums with one hit on each one. We still all need to buy the reissue CDs, though, just to show our support.

 

[Harry]

But Mac says something in his post that I've been saying for awhile now in general--nostalgia doesn't sell. Yes, there will be some initial buying by a lot of us collectors, and others who stumble across them, but they would never enjoy runaway popularity.

There's something that bothers me, and that's with at least one of those auctions posted above - Whipped Cream. Here's an album that had been on print in CD form from about 1988 or so through the better part of 2000. That's a 12-year window that this particular CD sat on store shelves, in the racks, filed under "A" for Alpert. It was there with Lonely Bull, Foursider, Classics 1, Greatest Hits 1, and Greatest Hits 2. Now it's out-of-print and mostly pretty hard to find, and people are spending ridiculous amounts of money to buy them on eBay. Where were these people two years ago? Three years ago? Four years ago? Ten years ago?

I find it hard to believe that these are new fans. New from what? All of the airplay that HA & the TJB receive these days? [facetious mode off]. Are they fans who are just now realizing their mistake of not buying while plentiful? Are there that many? Are they people who've had tough times over the last decade and unable to afford the $9.99 for Whipped Cream, but now suddenly can afford $70 for the same disc? Or are these impulsive (compulsive) browsers of eBay who see the words "out-of-print" and instantly go into "have-to-have" mode, at any cost?

I wonder about these things sometimes. I don't lose any sleep over it, but I do wonder...

Harry
...hard at work on the day after Christmas, online...

 

[Rudy]

Makes no sense to me either. I call it the eBay Mentality. I get the feeling that maybe 25% of the eBay buyers and sellers are stuck in an alternate life than the rest of are. Buyers who know little or nothing about what they're selling, and sellers who buy it. I think between them, all they're doing is rearranging the world's junk between each other. Annoying are the sellers who:

1. Think that anything that is no longer being made is valuable;

2. Claim they're not an expert, and yet throw in appropriate buzz words to make the item attractive (like Suzy's Collectibles knows how to grade vinyl... );

3. Give a two-sentence description of the item with no photo (like, telepathy is going to work??), but six long paragraphs in large unreadable type telling us how honest they are, explain every minute detail of how they ship something, what kind of payments they accept and why (or why not, usually whining about PayPal), who or what deity they believe in, and a lengthy description of what they'll do to a non-paying bidder;

4. Try to make the proverbial silk purse out of a sow's ear...where any serious buyer or collector will already know it's garbage, but the unenlightened bidders will line up like lemming thinking they're onto something rare and valuable.

For the most part, I've found eBay sellers and buyers to be nice, understanding and patient, not to mention truthful in their listings. Every now and then you get someone out on the fringe, and the occasional item that's not as good as it's described (usually buying vinyl, since it takes an experienced eye and ear to grade it properly), but even the honest sellers will consider an adjustment, replacement or return if something's not right. It's the same courtesy I give any person who bids on what I sell.

This applies to the TJB Whipped Cream album a bit...those of us who know what the CD is worth and how readily available it was know better than to bid on them. And if we don't know it's worth anything, we'll find a forum (like ours here) to ask a question in.

In a way, we can blame the home shopping channels for the same type of mentality--offer something showing a grossly inflated list price that's marked down (usually to a just-above-the-going-market-price), make it look like you're getting a tremendous discount and/or a once-in-a-life opportunity, and then offer it for a limited amount of time so you ACT NOW. In other words, "buy before you think." A little research will usually find the item cheaper, closer to home, with a lower shipping charge or NO shipping charge if it's local. eBay works similarly--bid TODAY before that item disappears!

 

[Steven J. Gross]

I think that when the bulk of the Herb Alpert stuff is remastered and re-released, like most of the major A&M acts already have, it will create a new market and audience!

 

[Rudy]

I really wish A&M would remaster and reissue all of the Styx catalog. All of Styx' contemporaries (Journey, AC/DC, Genesis, Aerosmith, and many others) have all had their catalogs remastered and reissued. Styx is a perennial fixture on classic rock radio, but the CDs available are pathetic. The two somewhat recent Best Of CDs sound excellent, but the album CDs (other than Kilroy Was Here) are your typical LP masters--no low or high end.

I bought Equinox and Kilroy. Equinox was so mediocre I passed on the rest, although I did get some to borrow and make copies of until some properly remastered CDs come out. Heck, even their Wooden Nickel CDs have been reissued in one form or another...and other than Styx II (with "Lady"), they certainly never sold large numbers of those!!

 

[Steven J. Gross]

You mean "Paradise Theater" was never remastered? One of my all time faves! Has to happen soon.

 

[bob knack]

I'm not a rock fan but I read an article yesterday that applies to the above:

The drummer from Styx (I can't remember the name) was introduced by a mutual friend to "The World's Fastest Drummer" Barrett Deems, who had not heard of him. "He plays with Styx", said the friend. "We all play with sticks", responded Barrett.

 

[Rudy]

That would either have been the original drummer John Panozzo, or...whoever is filling in the drummer spot in Styx these days. (IMHO, without the Panozzos and Dennis DeYoung, all three of them the group's founders, it ain't Styx!!)

Your Styx purist,

 

[Captain Bacardi]

The drummer from Styx (I can't remember the name) was introduced by a mutual friend to "The World's Fastest Drummer" Barrett Deems, who had not heard of him. "He plays with Styx", said the friend. "We all play with sticks", responded Barrett.

Is Barret Deems still around? I thought he died a couple of years ago. I have a jam session album on the Flying Fish label called Live At Rick's Cafe Americain that features Deems, Urbie Green, Red Norvo, Dave McKenna, Buddy Tate and Steve LaSpina. I met him once in the early 80's at one of the jazz venues in Chicago (maybe the Jazz Showcase).


Capt. Bacardi

 

[Harry]

Final results for the eBay auction of the Japanese SRO:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=932052990

$310.00

So, in end-of-year IRS mode, and just for fun, lets analyze that purchase a little bit.

Here we have a 30 minute and 15 second album, selling for $310.00. We'll even exclude the $5.00 shipping charge from our calculations.

$310.00 divided by 30.25 minutes=$10.25 per minute of time on SRO CD

$10.25 divided by 60 to get dollars/second=about 17 cents per second

This, of course includes those seconds that tick by between tracks, so a five-second dead space would cost 85 cents!

Now the above calculation assumes that all of these tracks would be new to the buyer, but in reality, no self-respecting Alpert collector would be without a few of the more common compilations, which would've included the following tracks:

Flamingo
Mame
The Work Song
Mexican Road Race (on that Gold Series 2 disc that's pretty common these days)

Subtracting those times from the total, we get 21.03 minutes of "new" material on the SRO disc.

$310.00 divided by 21.03 minutes=$14.74 per minute unreleased  

$14.64 divided by 60 to get dollars/second=about 25 cents per second

So, bottom line, sticking a quarter in THIS jukebox will get you one second of music.

Harry
...who thought $29 was high when he bought SRO in the '80s, online...

 

[Steven J. Gross]

Just proves that even a very limited re-release of these titles will turn a profit for the company (Vivendi?). Maybe thats why they don't!!!

 

[Rudy]

The funny thing I"ve seen with auctions of high-dollar LPs and some CDs--once a new version comes out, these old items instantly become worthless. Since they likely sound poorer, and have fewer included contents (any new release would likely have a better booklet), nobody is going to recoup what they paid for it. And to me, $310 is $300 too much for a mediocre, at best, CD...and sentimentality isn't worth $300 to me. (A CD-R is fine, thanks. )

Esquivel was one artist that had exorbitant pricing when the Lounge movement was in its heyday. Vinyl copies of the albums in decent condition were $25, minimum. Something like an original pressing of Latin-Esque, in its original die-cut cover on RCA's thankfully short-lived "Stereo Action" label, could command hundreds. Bar|None Records reissued all of Esquivel's LPs eventually (three two-fers, and Latin-Esque separately), and I've recently seen LPs of Esquivel go unsold on eBay, even for $10. Producer Paul Williams even e-mailed me, after I'd reviewed the CD debut of See It In Sound (an unreleased RCA session), to say that the market for Esquivel had dried up, even on CD, and that this CD would likely be the last one BMG (who owns RCA and Bar|None) would approve. The compilations sold well, but the album releases sold far short of expectations. (Even though they were two-fers!) He was pretty much on target--the lounge music excitement died off, and only Latin-Esque, the last US LP never released on CD, was finally reissued with little fanfare.

I just hope economics don't win out if the TJB albums ever get reissued in full. Historically, album releases just never seem to do well, and the compilations get the action. If we ever see the TJB catalog albums reissued, I would suggest buying them on the spot, immediately, before they disappeared. The original CDs were quite short lived, and I don't expect any new ones to be any different. Buy now, so we don't regret it later.

One parting shot: I'm no fan of these SACD or DVD-Audio gimmicks, but it would be smart to reissue the TJB CDs as hybrid SACD/CD titles. (There's talk of hybrid CD/DVD-A as well.) These hybrids are dual-layer. A standard CD layer will play in all the current CD players, and the SACD layer is playable on the newer high-resolution players. The Rolling Stones just reissued their early catalog titles this way, and pricing, if I recall, is on par with standard CDs. Doing this may cost a little more for mastering, but the CDs also won't be outdated as quickly, and five years from now, we won't all be demanding SACD (or DVD-A) versions of these same titles.