By 1981 was the Carpenters recording career in terminal decline?

[cricketer]

Hello everyone,greetings from England!
I wonder if I might readdress an issue that has been discussed to some extent in previous threads....

Firstly as an obsessive UK C`s fan from approx. 1972 ,despite having seen The Karen Carpenter Story TV.Movie ,I was genuinely shocked and saddened when I bought the Ray Coleman "bible" in 1994.

Please understand that as a fan here in Britain my only "contact" with the Carpenters was via the fan club news letters,Karen and Richard`s infrequent tv/concert appearances here and their various interviews on BBC radio or via newspapers etc. and to me they always seemed so positive/upbeat about their career and private lives.
I do recall seeing Karen solo in the Bruce Forsyth christmas show in `78 and thinking she appeared to be rather thin + also feeling somewhat disturbed by K&R`s BBC 1981 Nationwide interview and feeling that something seemed "wrong"..... it just seemed to be very tense and strange....and Karen really looked very ill as far as I was concerned.

Nevertheless prior to karen`s death I obviously had no insight at all as to the extent of her condition and I really had no idea whatsoever as to the difficulties K&R had been facing throughout their career.

Also I never got the sense from the "KCS" tv movie that the carpenters career had been in any difficulty in terms of record sales etc.

Obviously many of the following points have been addressed to various degrees elsewhere over the years but in,addition to being shocked at the details of Karen`s lengthy battle with anorexia,I was certainly surprised/upset about these issues when highlighted in the Coleman book...................

1.The physical/mental effects upon Richard of the quaalude addiction
2.The appalling management decisions (possibly with the benefit of hindsight) in respect of excessive touring,the Neil Sedaka debacle,the nature of some of their tv appearances etc
3.The appalling "image" of the Carpenters for which A&M and "management" appear to have been partially responsible.
4.The events concerning the non release of K`s solo album and the tension this must have caused between her and R.
5.The extent of the fall in their record sales in the USA.....their inability to obtain radio play

I don`t know whether other UK. Carpenter fans would agree but I never noticed any diminution in radio play for them over here in the early 80s or any falling-off in terms of album sales....despite the criticism of the trend conscious music press.....they seemed to have a loyal fan base here (although I never met any at the time!)

I do find it a real shame,therefore,if the Carpenters career was indeed in terminal decline in America.........obviously it`s all irrevelant given Karen`s appalling demise......but if things could have been different I would like to hope that Richard`s comment that "it was just a question of finding the right song" was right and that the C`s could have remained highly successful recording artists for many years.
I really cannot believe that K&R would have ended up as "tired old has-beens" doing the nostalgia circuit....or not having a record contract............I`m sure they were far too talented and too proud to have allowed that to happen.

Certainly A&M must still have considered them viable in terms of commerciality or why would they have offered a new contract in the early `80s?

What still bothers me most after all these years is that Karen is remembered for her superb vocals (and drumming!) and not as the lady who died because of anorexia.

I do hope that the Carpenters are remembered for what they accomplished and,hopefully,would continue have achieved rather than just because of Karen`s untimely death....it would appear from so many comments that I have read that in the USA they are simply not appreciated.

Does anyone have any opinions regarding this?

 

[song4u]

The years that went by in the late 70's with no significant releases were pretty much the end, except for those of us die-hard fans. In my opinion, Karen's album may have been, to her, not just an independent decision, but a way to shake up the Carpenters' image. If not consciously, then subconsciously. I really think that if things had turned out differently and both of them had recovered fully, they would have had to reinvent themselves with a new image. It was the 80's and there was a whole new group of radio and MTV listeners. Soft rock wasn't going to cut it.

However, I would have loved to have from them an album of standards like Linda Ronstadt or Broadway tunes like Barbra Streisand. Those became popular releases from other artists later on as well. The only other thing I can think of that they could have done was move into the jazz genre, a la Basia (Trzetrzelewska) from Poland, and her and Danny White's original band Matt Bianco. Richard and Karen could have been naturals at that with their jazz background from their early years. And as much as I love Basia's voice and songwriting ability, I can just hear Richard's arrangements and Karen in her lower register knocking that kind of song out of the park.

If only . . .

 

[Someday]

Personally I've always thought the Carpenters would have headed back towards jazz - assuming Voice of the Heart would have been their next complete album in 83 and depending on how successful it was. RC has certainly intimated that he would have liked to record more standards and I'm sure they would have continued to play sell-out concerts.

 

[newvillefan]

I think their career would have mirrored Barry Manilow's exactly. They would have had the label behind them and continued to be successful but not in album sales, more as a concert draw. Which is ironic as Richard is bitter about them doing so much touring. They would probably have done it on their terms though. I'm not sure Karen would have ever ventured out onto Broadway although that would have been a natural career progression for her. Even into her thirties she and Richard were joined at the hip. The mere thought of her doing something solo again after the first disaster would probably have gotten swept under the table by Richard, her parents and the label. Which is one of the downsides of them having a stifling relationship. Had they just been college friends,she probably wouldn't have given breaking away a second thought.

 

[Chris Mills]

How many times have I listened to Basia and thought of K&R, they would have been so good at creating that "feel good" sound for the 80s, a mixture of Latino, jazzy, pop music, they verved towards that direction when recording "Passage"," B'wana She No Home" &" All You Get From Love Is A Love Song", Karen's solo album had the same vibe with "Last One Singing The Blues", they really needed some external input, someone like Quincy Jones/Sergio Mendes, to inject some much needed life back into their music. Phil Ramone tried his best with Karen when she was at one of her lowest points, can't imagine what K&R could have created for the 80's if only they hadn't drained themselves out.

In the UK we had no idea what was happening to K&R, the tabloid press would have had a field day with them in the UK if their problems were happening now!!

 

[aaflyer98]

Nice questions Cricketer! The Carpenters decline here in the USA probably started during the Horizon album. "Mr. Postman" and "Only Yesterday" did quite well, the "Solitaire" was released and did not do well on the charts. The "A Kind Of Hush" album saw moderate success with the single, "There's A Kind Of Hush", but "I Need To Be In Love" did not do well, although still received decent airplay. No other singles from "Hush" made much of an impact. "Passage" saw "All You Get From Love Is A Love Song" get some airplay, but didn't make a huge dent in the charts, and "Calling Occupants" did not do well in the US. Then there was the single "I Believe You", released in 1978 which did nothing. It would later appear on "Made In America" in 1981. When 1981 finally came around, "Touch Me When We're Dancing" got a lot of airplay and was heralded as the Carpenters comeback. The single made it to #16 on the pop charts, #1 adult contemporary charts. THAT was nice, I remember, to hear the Carpenters back on the radio! No other singles from "Made In America" made any radio impact. The only future singles, post 1983 that I ever heard at all on the radio, and maybe only once or twice were "Make Believe It's Your First Time", "Your Baby Doesnt' Love You Anymore" and "If I Had You".
HOWEVER, in 1978, with the release of CHRISTMAS PORTRAIT, radio went crazy over Carpenters! Every Holiday season, starting in 1978 and continuing to this day (2011) The Carpenters are played in heavy rotation with songs from both Christmas albums. You never know which songs, radio will play them all. So that is a cool fact that was true in 1978 and still true today. It is pretty much the only time you can hear Carpenters on the radio, but hey, that's great!

 

[cricketer]

Thanks for your views......obviously its only conjecture but I genuinely believe that: if "things had been different" .... with their marvellous individual and collective talents the Carpenters COULD surely have continued to enjoy a long and fulfilling recording career.
I feel that they had showed great stylistic versatility throughout their recordings which had obviously not been fairly recognised by their critics for whatever reason......a fact which clearly bothered them greatly.

I am still not clear why by 1981 there appeared to be such antipathy from US. radio....was it just that the Carpenter`s image was too square or were they simply considered "old hat"..........or was it simply that some of their singles such as "Goofus" "I Believe You" and "Beachwood" were either sub standard or inappropriate for the times.

Anyway I would personally have liked K&R to stop chasing the top 40 and simply made the types of records that THEY would have found artistically fulfilling.................it would have been interesting to see what A&M`s reaction would have been to that.... it was after all supposed to have been an artist friendly label.

From all of the interviews that K&R gave over the years I feel that commercial success mattered far too much to them and,I therefore,doubt that they would have been willing to be too experimental......
Nevertheless I would have loved it if they would have further developed onwards in the style of some of their wonderful recordings.....

1."Sometimes","One More Time","Make Believe It`s Your First Time" (K`s version)-ie.stripped down basic recordings
2."Rainy Days..","This Masquerade","Song For You","Ordinary Fool"-ie.lightly jazz-tinged material
3."Goodbye To Love","B`Wanna She No Home","Two Sides", "All You Get From Love Is A Love Song"-ie sophisticated pop/rock
4.All I Can Do-ie a return to a more earlier and "earthier" sound.

All of which makes it sound like I didn`t appreciate R`s more lushious orchestral arrangements as much which is possibly true although I absolutely love "Where Do I Go From Here".....

I don`t know what they would have done but I do like to hope that they together could still have produced wonderful material for us all to share.

John
still dreaming.....

 

[Mike Blakesley]

I think the comment above about Barry Manilow is spot on. If Karen lived, they probably could have found success in the country charts, but their era as pop-stars was pretty much over by the time she died.

Look at other pop artists from that era and what they did -- some of them have just kept cranking out the same type of music in relative obscurity*, while others have moved into country or standards or what-have-you, and still others have foregone the recordings and just become staples in Vegas.

The Carpenters could also have done what Mannheim Steamroller did -- become a huge Christmas artist, putting out a new Christmas album every two or three years.

*Note: Sometimes that obscurity pays dividends though...the recent new albums from The Doobie Brothers and The Cars are both excellent!

 

[Harry]

They were literally toast by 1981 as far as hit radio was concerned. That they managed one last hit, "Touch Me When We're Dancing" was more a case of being at the right place and the right time with the right song. Their image among the populace and the radio industry was really poor. Their records began to test with "high negatives"; that is, through audience testing it was determined that if a listener heard a Carpenters track on the radio, they would more than likely switch the station. ' Tune-out' in radio is the worst-feared phenomenon, and the testing they do tries to ensure that no listener in the desired demographic is turned-off by any song in their rotation. It's enough that commercial breaks will drive people away, so they never want a song to send any listener packing. Commercials are a necessary evil as they pay the bills. Playing records is simply a matter of choice.

So, by 1981, it was pretty well determined that if you were aiming for the prime 25-44 adult demographic, you better not be playing any Carpenters tunes. "Touch Me When We're Dancing" somehow managed to cut through all of that, for a short time, and enjoyed a run on hit radio while it was on the charts, so given the climate, it becomes more and more remarkable that it did. But as soon as it started down the charts, away it went, rarely to be heard again on the radio.

Edited to add: It turns out that today, August 22nd, marks the 30th anniversary of "Touch Me When We're Dancing" reaching Number One on the Billboard Adult Contemporary Chart, where it remained for two weeks.

Harry

 

[cricketer]

Thanks so much Harry for the detailed explanation regarding radio programming in the US......and the problems K&R experienced in this respect.
It makes me so glad that we Brits. still have a great mixture of both the good old state-owned BBC and numerous commercial radio stations.......as you will be well aware from the various BBC Carpenter radio documentaries broadcast over the years- all kinds of music are still played "side by side".....we perhaps don`t have quite the same degree of formatting as you do.

I am only too well aware of the power of radio in respect of country music for example.....Dolly Parton has often stated how pleased she is to still receive attention over here as she was basically "black-listed" as she no longer appealed to the demographic audience which the stations were targetting.

I am pleased to say that my local station has been playing many of my older favourite artists today......Carole King, Beatles,Creedence,Neil Young,Maria Muldaur,Linda Ronstadt and still the wonderful SwingoutSister.........
From my own limited experience working within local radio.....fortunately there is still a requirement/desire to cater for all types of audience......particularly in respect of music.

It is most disappointing that the US. "populace" as you put it had rejected the Carpenters so comprehensively...............presumably then A&M had offered K&R a new contract with the expectation of continuing falling sales.....or were they just hoping that overseas sales would make the deal worthwhile for the company?

Whatever the situation I would like to have seen K&R abandon their top 40 ambitions and do something artistically rewarding whatever it may have been either together or as a duo......................nevertheless Harry you and Mike do paint a rather bleak picture! (I guess the truth hurts sometimes)

John,
(I`d rather be a dreamer than a realist!)

 

[Dave]

Although it's been answered, the basic question, especially in light of the mild success of their comeback, should still be "Why?"...

-- Dave

 

[mr J.]

CRICKETER--yes,K&R's career was in decline by 1981,and obviously, it was their own fault.K&R's poor choice of single material led to their downward spiral as hit-making pop recording artists.One wonders how they went from recording first-rate single material such as "For All We Know","Rainy Days And Mondays" and "I Won't Last A Day Without You" to putting out pathetic inconsequential tracks such as "Postman","Hush","Calling Occupants","Sweet Sweet Smile","Beechwood",etc.
However,I agree with the above sentiments concerning K&R returning to the jazz genre.K&R recorded "Christmas Portrait" in 1978,which could best be described as a jazz/pop standard holiday masterpiece.The soundtrack for their "Music,Music,Music" TV special in 1980 also featured that jazz/pop standard type material.But,It's unfortunate that K&R didn't continue in that jazz direction,opting instead to record a full-fledged pop album for 1981's "Made In America"(although there are two standard-style tracks on that set with full orchestra).Of course,K&R recorded some jazz-tinged and jazz-related material all throughout their career-even going back to their early RC Trio recordings:"Caravan","Iced Tea","The Girl From Ipanema",etc

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

They were having a harder time getting radio to play their songs, didn't even Harold start calling the local radio stations to see why they were not playing their new album? When they appeared on the Merv Griffin Show and Olivia was promoting her Physical album and Carpenters were promoting MIA.....wow talk about totally different content. I remember Olivia saying in an interview around the time of Physical that she had to always keep looking to change things up and be willing to try different things, branch out in new directions. Physical was a huge direction for her and at times she was almost worried how the song would be taken from the public, she was banned in some states from playing the song, she decided to soften things up by making the video to Physical about excercise and making it fun. At the time the lyric content was considered strong.

I also think Jazz could have been a new direction for them. To get an idea of what Jazz would have sounded on a Carpenter song listen to, A Song for You, Karen by Jeremy Monteiro. Jacintha uses her vocals on a few of the tracks and to me they sound amazing. I think the album is way out of print but you can buy mp3s of the songs still. Samples are here

http://www.amazon.com/Monteiro-Jeremy-Song-You/dp/B0043XSYL2/ref=tmm_msc_title_0

Check out the instrumental version (last track) sample. I like how that sounds. Karen would have sounded amazing here just piano and her sweet voice.

I also forgot to mention that if you use iTunes, you can search Jeremy Monteiro and you will find this CD, A Song for You, Karen and the samples are 1 min 30 secds long, gives you a better chance to hear the songs before you buy.

 

[Calvin R Murty]

Just to add (since I am Singaporean and so are Jacintha and Jeremy ), Jacintha was a big fan of the Carpenters and counts Karen as one of her musical influences. In her very first album (Silence, 1983 - which is superb but unfortunately out of print and never released on CD), she performs 9 original songs out of 10, and several of them have a Carpenteresque sound (i.e., complete with vocal overdubs by her and her producer Dick Lee, who apparently also loves the Carpenters).

 

[Rudy]

Personally I've always thought the Carpenters would have headed back towards jazz - assuming Voice of the Heart would have been their next complete album in 83 and depending on how successful it was.

I agree. And no offense, but Voice Of The Heart would have been a commercial stiff if she were still around. Having said that, I really could see them reinventing their approach. I don't know if they'd go into jazz, but something more jazz/pop/Bossa (like song4u mentions above, similar to the Matt Bianco lineup) with more modern instrumentation may have kept them relevant, even if not on the charts. The standards idea is somewhat good, but these days it has been done by every other pop/rock artist whose career is taking a nosedive. Way too many standards albums out there. And duets as well--Sinatra wore out that idea with the ill-conceived Duets and Duets II albums.

 

[Song4uman]

The standards idea is somewhat good, but these days it has been done by every other pop/rock artist whose career is taking a nosedive. Way too many standards albums out there. And duets as well--Sinatra wore out that idea with the ill-conceived Duets and Duets II albums.

But if you think back to the early 80's...there weren't many doing the "standards". (at least not that I am remembering) Ronstadt had her 3 albums. (I have the first two on vinyl)...first one was in what....1984ish. Karen and Richard could have set the standard on that. Of course with how the general public felt about them being "out of the loop", their album of standards could have been just thought of as out of style...

I do believe that eventually they would have found the style that fit them and that was widely accepted. People again would really see the magic in Karen's voice.

Just my thoughts.
Jonathan

 

[aaflyer98]

I think the Carpenters had a few things going against them. First off, the thing that everybody loved about them, their MUSIC, was against the tide and more in the soft rock vein. This was their greatest strength and their strongest weakness, in my opinion. The same reasons they became popular would later turn around and knock them down. The album and single picture sleeves, early on maybe up until 1974 only hurt their image more. Then we have the CHOICE of singles pulled from the albums. Probably "Sing" cemented their image. A huge hit, but a career mistake. The Carpenters recorded so many GREAT songs on each album, yet were always trying for the trendy pop singles. "There's A Kind Of Hush", "Please Mr. Postman" were frilly throw away pop compared to some of the other songs Karen and Richard recorded at the time. And "Goofus"? Cute for an album cut, but not a single. So I believe these singles in particular are what turned radio all the way off. The singles from Passage and Made In America could have had a better chance if their image hadn't been cemented by then. No matter how great the songs were, their entire image needed an overhaul. Quite frankly, the only thing I think could have done that would have been Karen's solo project, with the more riskier songs included on her album.

 

[song4u]

"There's A Kind Of Hush", "Please Mr. Postman" were frilly throw away pop compared to some of the other songs Karen and Richard recorded at the time . . . The singles from Passage and Made In America could have had a better chance if their image hadn't been cemented by then. No matter how great the songs were, their entire image needed an overhaul. Quite frankly, the only thing I think could have done that would have been Karen's solo project, with the more riskier songs included on her album.

I agree with the sentiment of "frilly" for some of the singles, however I think Please Mr. Postman was their biggest selling international hit back in the day. Talk about irony.

I remember when Passage was released. It was obvious that they were trying a sample of a lot of styles. And I read some where in an interview that Karen said they were having a hard time figuring out what people want to hear, so I guess that's what that was about. They must not have received the kind of feedback that gave them a newly defined direction.

I do not like the "riskier" songs on Karen's solo album. I have never thought that with a talent like hers she had to go that route, regardless of what was getting airplay at that time. And I didn't think it was fair for some to say that she "stole" the Carpenters' sound on her solo album. I agree with ONJ there - she was their sound. At least a major ingredient of it.

I think it was really their image that sunk them. How many of us recall in their early days that we had to be "closet" Carpenters fans because people just didn't get past the image and hear the music? It's a shame that they didn't do a better job of marketing with them from the start.

In the beginning they were very bold to try a new sound - something that people weren't used to hearing on the air. I wish they had done the same thing 10 years later and not had to be so worried about their image.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

Another thing that may have hurt them was they lost their "edge" that they had in the early years. Look at the variety of sounds you heard on the A Song For You album. That record has country, rock, tender balladry and even comedy! Plus Richard doing some lead vocals. By the time they got past Horizon, it was all Karen all the time, and almost all syrupy balladry that was heavily orchestrated. If you heard Richard at all it was only in the background, and they got too serious. The sense of fun and adventure -- which was there on all of their first four albums -- was replaced by overly-fussy, obviously expensive productions. If you heard an uptempo song, it was a remade oldie. Cool asides like "Piano Picker" or "Flat Baroque" didn't happen any more.... but it was those kinds of "album cuts" that helped make the Carpenters albums interesting for repeat listenings and brought in more than just the ballad fans.

 

[Rudy]

But if you think back to the early 80's...there weren't many doing the "standards". (at least not that I am remembering) Ronstadt had her 3 albums. (I have the first two on vinyl)...first one was in what....1984ish. Karen and Richard could have set the standard on that. Of course with how the general public felt about them being "out of the loop", their album of standards could have been just thought of as out of style...

I have a feeling (and I hate saying it) that it would have taken a couple of major "flop" albums before they decided to change tactics. Maybe they even would have been booted from A&M, no stranger to unceremoniously dropping artists that can't sell records anymore. It is hard to pull off a "standards" album without it coming across as Muzak or too schmaltzy, and it would take just the right style of production and arrangements to make it stand out from the others. If a standards album were done in the style of the last couple of albums, maybe four dozen people would have bought it.

I like how Mike puts it:

By the time they got past Horizon, it was all Karen all the time, and almost all syrupy balladry that was heavily orchestrated. ..... Cool asides like "Piano Picker" or "Flat Baroque" didn't happen any more.... but it was those kinds of "album cuts" that helped make the Carpenters albums interesting for repeat listenings and brought in more than just the ballad fans.

Other than Passage (and KC's solo album), I really can't listen to much of anything past Horizon. IMHO, "syrupy" is what caused the downturn from commercial success. At least with the hit single "Close To You," it had an upbeat sound and feel to it--it reaches back to an older style of "pop vocal" music, but it sounds breezy and light. Or you had serious story-songs like "Road Ode" and "A Song For You" that reflect their hectic touring schedule at the time. Compare that to "I Believe You" that is so embarrassing to listen to, I have to skip it any time it comes up. And yes, most of the fun is gone out of the later albums...even the oldies sound forced and way too "goody two shoes."

No surprise my favorite album is A Song For You...

One last visit to the standards topic: the opera singer Kiri Te Kanawa recorded Blue Skies in 1986, with arrangements by Nelson Riddle. I will say that Riddle's arrangements were exquisite, but Kiri seems out of her element, and sounds forced and uncomfortable. Not to knock her talent--she is one of the finest vocalists of all time, but it was IMHO a mismatch of sorts. I am more used to a relaxed type of voice, like Sinatra's, in front of someone like Nelson Riddle. This could have been a problem for KC recording a standards album--the wrong arranger or production would have sunk it.

Instead, something similar to Diana Krall's The Look of Love would have been a better approach--Claus Ogerman's strings are darker in tone, and Krall's own accompaniment is minimal. Now, she doesn't have the same vocal chops that KC has, but it's the feel that carries it aloft. (Their ranges are similar, but Krall's voice is a bit more "smoky," if you will.) This type of approach would have worked quite well, IMHO.

 

[mr J.]

SOMEDAY-K&R's return to jazz would not have been dependent on the success of "Voice Of The Heart".VOTH owes it's existence to Karen's death.If Karen had lived,VOTH never would've happened-K&R would have recorded a brand-new album in 1983,and knowing K&R,it probably would've been a carbon-copy of "Made In America".

That said,I'm very thankful that VOTH does exist-It's without question one of K&R best albums,and Karen's vocals here are particularly exquisite(especially "Ordinary Fool"-Karen's jazz-blues masterpiece.This has gotta be the single best jazz recording in the entire A&M catalog!)

.One amazing fact about VOTH-it sold 900,000 copies with absolutely no hit singles-something K&R could do with no other album.VOTH was indeed a success(to answer SOMEDAY's question above).And,I believe it was the second best-selling A&M album of 1983.(next to Police's "Synchronicity").

 

[aaflyer98]

Wow...I never knew VOTH sold over 900,000 copies! Pretty amazing!

 

[Toolman]

Another thing that may have hurt them was they lost their "edge" that they had in the early years. Look at the variety of sounds you heard on the A Song For You album. That record has country, rock, tender balladry and even comedy! Plus Richard doing some lead vocals. By the time they got past Horizon, it was all Karen all the time, and almost all syrupy balladry that was heavily orchestrated. If you heard Richard at all it was only in the background, and they got too serious. The sense of fun and adventure -- which was there on all of their first four albums -- was replaced by overly-fussy, obviously expensive productions. If you heard an uptempo song, it was a remade oldie. Cool asides like "Piano Picker" or "Flat Baroque" didn't happen any more.... but it was those kinds of "album cuts" that helped make the Carpenters albums interesting for repeat listenings and brought in more than just the ballad fans.

Yes, particularly the "overly fussy" observation. Interesting that the albums recorded while their schedules were so hectic are those we'd probably consider their best, whereas the ones made when they had time to pursue "perfection" seemed to lack something important...or perhaps that "something important" was an element they intentionally removed to create their idea of perfect.

When our regional pop radio station in central Illinois picked up later Carpenters singles, they continued doing very well. "Occupants" was a Top Ten hit on WIRL Peoria. I tend to think the major markets (too influenced by programmers who were too cool to play Carpenters, the public be damned) also played a role in their decline. Testing? BS in my opinion. I had this discussion with a programmer once. It's a circular argument: Why don't you play X? Because it's not a hit. How does it become a hit? Stations have to play it.

 

[Harry]

Testing? BS in my opinion. I had this discussion with a programmer once. It's a circular argument: Why don't you play X? Because it's not a hit. How does it become a hit? Stations have to play it.

It's not even 'hit' status that determines. There were many big hit records that never see the light on radio anymore, and it's because of the dreaded testing. Though I hate the way it works, I cannot deny that it DOES work. Many a programmer has tried to 'educate' their audiences as to what they SHOULD like, only to end up failing and probably losing their jobs.

Records become hits not just on their own, but often depend on what's out with them at the same time. A particularly strong record can prevent another great record from reaching that number one status. We've all seen it with the vast amount of number 'two' records in the Carpenters' canon.

But radio stations don't just rely on charts. There are quite a few songs that we hear all the time on radio that weren't big number one hits. Examples: Heatwave's "Always and Forever". It gets played on every soft rock station and in heavy rotation, yet it only managed number 18 on the Hot 100 chart in 1978.

George Harrison's "Blow Away" was a little bit bigger hit in 1979, reaching number 16. Yet this solo record by a member of The Beatles is rarely heard on any stations today. And it all comes down to testing. Play a sample of "Always And Forever" to an audience, and everyone reacts favorably to it, particularly the desirable women demographic. Do the same with "Blow Away" and you'll get a few who remember it but most have long forgotten this single and react negatively to it in the tests.

I've discussed before that a radio station's testing is only really to determine one thing - how to avoid tune-out. Any song with a perceived negative is avoided, and for whatever reasons - sugary-sweet vocals, goody-four-shoes image, overly-produced tracks - Carpenters have high negatives. So much so, that their records are not even usually tested anymore.

Yet come Christmas time, they're somehow not only welcome, but desirable. Go figure. A common phrase in radio is "the masses are a$$es."

Harry

 

[song4u]

By the time they got past Horizon, it was all Karen all the time, and almost all syrupy balladry that was heavily orchestrated. If you heard Richard at all it was only in the background, and they got too serious. The sense of fun and adventure -- which was there on all of their first four albums -- was replaced by overly-fussy, obviously expensive productions. .

So true. Unfortunately I think Richard substituted the chorale sound and orchestration because, during his addiction years, as was brought out in the Coleman book, he was unable to perform as he used to. I think it was Richard who lost his edge - he really had been brilliant at choosing material and arranging in those earlier years. And I think Karen knew he had lost his edge. I loved the overdubbing sound they had and really missed hearing it. Their voices blended so beautifully. I never liked the chorale sound that was substituted, and at the time I wondered why Richard didn't seem to sing any more. When I listen to Carpenters songs now it's almost all early material, or the previously unreleased songs. After he recovered he seemed ready to return and it makes me wonder if he would have regained his abilities eventually. MIA doesn't make it sound like it. But his solo album TIME was more of a sampling of different 80's sounding tunes - like he was trying to find himself. Unfortunately, R w/o K didn't fly.