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News Carpenters: "The Vinyl Collection"

Discussion in 'A Song For You: The Carpenters Forum' started by Simon KC1950, Mar 28, 2017.

  1. Chris May

    Chris May Resident 'Carpenterologist' Moderator

    Almost certain they were pulled from the entire batch of transfers for the Remastered Classics / 30th+35th Japanese box sets. I'm working on trying to nail down some more details.

    And to clarify, the tapes destroyed at Universal were original multitrack masters and not 2-channel mix tapes, so there would be nothing affecting this release that would be in any way related to whatever was lost in the fire. And for that matter, we're pretty sure most of the original multitrack stuff was transferred beforehand anyway so nothing was truly "lost".
    Jeff likes this.
  2. Chris May

    Chris May Resident 'Carpenterologist' Moderator

    Other than the fact that the original 2-channel mixes from '78 were pretty much decimated the last time they tried to access that master for those mixes, no. Most likely they didn't want to try and recreate the Portrait vinyl if it was basically going to be an album made up almost entirely of remixes. Takes away from the authenticity, and perhaps that could be why.
    Karen4ever likes this.
  3. newvillefan

    newvillefan Well-Known Member

    They could have used the 2 channel mixes that A&M West Germany must still have from the CD release of Christmas Portrait.
  4. Chris May

    Chris May Resident 'Carpenterologist' Moderator

    Honestly I have no idea if those things are even still around! I know England is the best source for 2-channel masters. But again, if they had a clean copy of Portrait all this time, then why Richard and Bernie didn't source that for the original mix transfers back in '98 when the US master for Portrait was found to be destroyed is beyond me.
  5. Amazon have now changed the title of the pre order to Carpenters the Collection double LP ?, I hope they know what they are doing?.
  6. tomswift2002

    tomswift2002 Active Member

    As I recall, the West German CD was made from the original American 2-track master (which Richard was apparently angry that no one had made a copy and sent the copy), which had been shipped to Germany in the 80’s and then in the late-80’s, when Richard was starting on “From The Top”, it was discovered that the original masters had not been stored correctly in Germany (and apparently the tape used has since turned out to not be the best tape for long-term storage as it claimed — I wonder if they had used AMPEX tape), hence the remixes that have appeared on every CD since 1991.
    Jeff likes this.
  7. Carpe diem

    Carpe diem Well-Known Member

    From this;
    I saw the higher price from this site:

    The Sound of Vinyl

    And, the lower price was mentioned by Chris May in an earlier entry on this thread...

    However, excuse me for being Captain Obvious, Amazon.com has it for $165.75 pre-order with an added plus of free shipping. That would not be a bad deal at all. But all the talk of whether they digital sources for this set has me somewhat concerned...
  8. Rick-An Ordinary Fool

    Rick-An Ordinary Fool Well-Known Member

    If this is the case, I'll most likely pass on this LP collection.
  9. Sue

    Sue Member

    I'm forever the optimist, what if they are going to release the Christmas albums seperately as a xmas treat!!
    David A, jaredjohnfisher and Jeff like this.
  10. ThaFunkyFakeTation

    ThaFunkyFakeTation Ah am so steel een luv weeth yoo

    Thanks for the response. I'm glad to know the 2-channel tapes are okay and they could be used if Universal chose to do so. I'm very curious to know if they were used. If they're all analog, I'm in. If not, no point, really - at least for me..

    Jeff likes this.
  11. Jeff

    Jeff Well-Known Member

    Just got a confirmation from my record buyer friend that CarpenterS The Vinyl Collection is on order. I also ordered 1 from my local record haunt. He also confirmed that my White Vinyl is set to go. The touch, feel, smell and sight of something from long ago. When I heard that the grade was 180g and THEN original artwork meticulously reproduced the tangent was in motion.

    Heres to seeing the duo out and about the record stores.
  12. Chris May

    Chris May Resident 'Carpenterologist' Moderator

    I'm excited for the white vinyl as well. Always a fan of the numbered, limited run stuff for sure! :agree:
    Jeff likes this.
  13. ThaFunkyFakeTation

    ThaFunkyFakeTation Ah am so steel een luv weeth yoo

    Ampex 456 is the devil. It was the main formulation that fell victim to "sticky shed" (adhesive binder that olds oxide onto tape backing leaking and becoming "sticky"). In order to play it, it has to first be baked in a lab incubator so that it can be played back. I have a few like that. The good news is that there's nothing to suggest that, as long as it's done safely, tape can't be baked repeatedly. 'Course, applying heat to any tape day after day wouldn't be a good idea but every once in a while doesn't seem to hurt the tape.

    Chris May likes this.
  14. Chris May

    Chris May Resident 'Carpenterologist' Moderator

    I remember hearing that as well. I think Richard said something about the 1/4" even being on an "improved series of tape" kind of thing. Baking didn't save it apparently so it was lost. :sad:
  15. Carpe diem

    Carpe diem Well-Known Member

    That white vinyl double album looks very intriguing. It's got all their "hits" and then some. I think it will be a nice addition to your collection. A real conversation piece!
    Rick-An Ordinary Fool and Jeff like this.
  16. ThaFunkyFakeTation

    ThaFunkyFakeTation Ah am so steel een luv weeth yoo

    He must have used Scotch instead. Those tapes could have issues too but nowhere near those of Ampex 456. Problem is that 456 sounds incredible as it had expanded headroom so you could really saturate it and it’d sound amazing. No one knew about the binder issues until we tried to digitize. :sad:

    Chris May likes this.
  17. Song4uman

    Song4uman Active Member

    Just ordered mine Amazon prime. $168 plus tax. $179 total. Yay
    Jeff and Rick-An Ordinary Fool like this.
  18. Rick-An Ordinary Fool

    Rick-An Ordinary Fool Well-Known Member

    Isn't it exciting when new stuff gets released? It may not be new material but I still get that feeling of anticipation. It's like that feeling of wishing Karen never left and the duo is still making music and I'm gonna buy it.
    BatzDD and Jeff like this.
  19. tomswift2002

    tomswift2002 Active Member

    I've worked with 3/4 U-Matic tapes and I've been warned that Ampex used a very dry binder formula on their tapes and back in the 70's and 80's Ampex and 3M Scotch were the top-of-the-line manufacturers for tape products. But apparently as early as the 1990's, Ampex tapes were discovered to be shedding their oxide particles, as some people would go to copy video, and even with baking and racking, the oxide would just fall off, sometimes in long strips, to where they would take the tape out and the tape in the shell would be clear, while the oxide was inside the machine. I know that a number of transfer places charge extra to transfer Ampex tapes because they need to take extra steps, since its very rare for an Ampex tape to transfer with very minimum effort. In a number of cases, people had VHS or Betamax copies made of the programs on the Ampex 3/4 U-Matic tape, and the programs only exist on those VHS or Betamax copies.
    ThaFunkyFakeTation likes this.
  20. ThaFunkyFakeTation

    ThaFunkyFakeTation Ah am so steel een luv weeth yoo

    Oh yeah, prior to baking, that absolutely could and did happen. However, if someone is still getting "shedding" after baking, it's not being done properly. I use Sonicraft (a restoration house) and have for years. They have never been handed the tape they couldn't bake and transfer. 3M is far more robust (in many cases; I've experienced shed with Scotch formulations too) but that Ampex 456 sounded so sweet. Also worth noting that is not all Ampex formulation were affected by this. It's only 456 that causes problems.

    This is the first I'm hearing of Ampex U-Matic tape being an issue though. Interesting...

    Chris May likes this.
  21. tomswift2002

    tomswift2002 Active Member

    I've experienced shedding with Scotch, Basf, Sony and a dozen other tape manufacturers before, but usually that goes away after racking the tape and cleaning the heads, or at the most there might be one drop-out, but for the most part the other tapes are fine. And cleaning the heads between putting different brands in also helps, as some brands used a "wetter" mixture for their binder, while others used a "drier" mixture, and if any binder had been left on the heads from a "wetter" tape, then the "drier" tape could get stuck and you might end up with an "eaten" or snapped tape.

    But baking is also not 100% reliable either. With both baking and raking you're trying to add heat to reactivate the binder mixture, and in some cases baking even makes the tape worst than when you started.

    But with AMPEX for U-Matic, in a number of instances I've heard (and have even seen pictures) that the tape didn't even make it to the baking stage. They had tried to run it and the oxide just peeled right off, almost like it was two-sided tape and the machine was removing the plastic that's one the one side that allows the two-sided tape to be rolled up. And in other cases, even with multiple bakings, they only managed to recover parts of the video. Ultimately the only good and usable copies were on VHS or Betamax.
  22. ThaFunkyFakeTation

    ThaFunkyFakeTation Ah am so steel een luv weeth yoo

    I've literally never seen it fail. If you use to high a temperature, you are asking for disaster, of course, Also, if you've tried to "rough pass" the tape on prior occasions or worse, use silicone to make the tape slippery, it's a lost cause. Noticing the issue, baking it, and transferring with the right machine (Studers can be too rough), there's no reason the audio tape can't be rescued.

    Of course, this would be different for video.

  23. Rick-An Ordinary Fool

    Rick-An Ordinary Fool Well-Known Member

    I was wondering if anyone was considering purchasing any of these albums individually instead of the box set as a whole.

    I noticed on the Universal Music link they run down each album but I don't understand there message about Voice of the Heart.
    It says:

    "Consisting of previously unreleased masters for a solo album by Karen, this album was compiled by Richard after her death."

    I was never under the impression that these tracks were designed for a solo album by Karen, am I misunderstanding their message about this album?

    The Carpenters: The Vinyl Collection to be Released November 17 | Umusic
  24. Erroneous info.
  25. Jeff

    Jeff Well-Known Member

    I'll be saving my sets. Buying individual albums for spinning.
    Rick-An Ordinary Fool likes this.

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