Herb Alpert - good or great trumpet player?

[PartyRico]

Very well stated Dan! The trumpet, as Herb himself stated in a NY Times interview in the mid-90's, " is just a piece of plumbing... it's his emotions, and feelings that count, that's what he aims for, to transmit emotions." (I'm paraphrasing here...)
We know he was'nt blessed with the greatest singing voice, but he managed to pull that off quite well too! I think Herb does wonderful things with his singing. "You Are My Life", "Christmas Song", "To Wait For Love", "This Guy's In Love With You", are wonderful performances, and there are many others, for instance his vocal on Coney Island, the title espcapes me at the moment, is one of his better vocals.("I Belong"?) His playing on CI is fantastic too.
Too me, Herb is one of those artists who will get more, and more recognition long after they have physically departed.( I pray that won't be anytime soon, don't get me wrong.) I feel this whole re-issue project will help bring him more deserved recognition.

 

[carlito]

"The fact is that Herb Alpert is not a great trumpeter by any means."

carlito: "The Captain does not give any supporting evidence to back up his claim, and considering Herb Alpert's lifetime of accomplishment with the trumpet, let alone everything else, the statement is shaky at best".

Captain Bacardi: "Well, if that's all you have to say then I can make the same claim that you have not supported your claim that he's a great trumpeter".

In actuality, my claims were supported with concrete evidence, but someone failed to transfer them to this thread, to wit:

Captain Bacardi: "The fact is that Herb Alpert is not a great trumpeter by any means."

carlito: "Sorry, I can not let that one go by. Assuming that Herb Alpert is the trumpet player on the first five TJB albums, I disagree with that statement. Herb Alpert may not be a master of triple tonguing or a stratospheric technician, but neither then was Miles Davis or Louis Armstrong.

What Herb Alpert does have is a luscious round mid-register, an effortlessly controlled vibrato (listen to The Shadow Of Your Smile or Angelito), a superb sense of rhythm and phrasology (check out Mae, The Robin or Route 101), and an alternately passionate and playful musicality that shines through from the soul and the heart (hear the Fandango or Colors CD). All this, plus it only takes about three notes to figure out that Herb Alpert is playing the song".

carlito: "Hugh Masekela may not think Herb is a great trumpet player, as he stated in an interview, but outside of Hugh and Captain Bacardi, there is no one of consequence on record with this view".


Captain Bacardi: "I've never read anything about what you claim Masekela has said. I doubt that Masekela ever said that, frankly".

Though the Captain might possibly be well read, he would not have seen that in print. Hugh Masekela was interviewed on WBGO-FM, Newark in the early 1980's, where he made some quite unkind remarks about Herb Alpert's trumpet playing abilities. Specifically, he said that (paraphrasing) Herb Alpert could not improvise his way out of a bag.

The Captain is fond of quoting Charlie Parker, but Louis Armstrong was most sagacious when he said, "There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell them."

 

[Captaindave]

All I can say is that if I could have any trumpet player's sound and skills somehow miraculously transplanted into my body, it would be those of Herb Alpert... hands down.

I'd gladly fore-go Maynard or Arturo or Wynton or Doc, or any of the rest, to play and sound like Herb...

What I really like about is Herb is thay way he can play and sound on a SONG! He plays MUSIC; not just a bunch of notes which sound like someone playing a page from the Clarke Technical Studies or Arban's...he creates emotion and feeling - he paints sonic pictures with the trumpet - I get different emotional responses to each song.

 

[Steven J. Gross]

All I can say is that if I could have any trumpet player's sound and skills somehow miraculously transplanted into my body, it would be those of Herb Alpert... hands down.

I'd gladly fore-go Maynard or Arturo or Wynton or Doc, or any of the rest, to play and sound like Herb...

What I really like about is Herb is thay way he can play and sound on a SONG! He plays MUSIC; not just a bunch of notes which sound like someone playing a page from the Clarke Technical Studies or Arban's...he creates emotion and feeling - he paints sonic pictures with the trumpet - I get different emotional responses to each song.

So well put!

 

[jazzdre]

man,captain!(and carlito)you sure opened a big can of worms here about herb's playing! now let me put my two cents in:first off,i think that herb is an excellent trumpeter.that being said,is he the greatest(or the best)? no,no he isn't.like the captain said,herb himself said he isn't the greates in the world.in an interview he did for billboard in'79,he said 'i didn't come up thru the big bands,i'm a different breed of trumpet player,a record PRODUCER trumpet player.i know how to make a record,and playing the trumpet is part of it.''this is herb saying that he is concerned with the bigger picture of making something musical;not just the trumpet playing,but the arrangements,how it will sound,how it will touch somebody who buys his record.in short,herb is more of a STORYTELLING trumpeter;a stylist if you will(i will conclude this soon)

 

[jazzdre]

sorry about the abrupt conclusion on the last thread,folks! i am in the library today,and so many people want to use the computers and,oh well,you get the idea! anyway,as i was saying before,herb is more or less,a storyteller/sylist on the trumpet.he is also a very economic player as well.he(it seems to me)knows how to hit the right notes just to get the right emotional effects to touch people,who might not be otherwise be touched by a more technically efficient trumpet player.as for his economy,i can relate. as a cartoonist/illustrator,one of my heroes is the legendary alex toth.alex is an acclaimed cartoonist who is idolized by virtually anybody who wants to illustrate,or do cartooning.hi philosophy is 'avoid excess,just get to ESSENCE'! when i was reading the liner notes for SECOND WIND,there it was right before me,was jeff lorber's statement on herb's philosophy;which was the same as toth's!!! avoid excess,just get to essence!i also found that miles davis had the same philosophy as well. most storytellers do not concern themselves about playing 90 notes per minute,or being technically perfect,they are just interested in telling their stories,so that they can reach people on an emotional level,and THAT i believe is herb's goal:to touch people.on that note,in my opinion,he succeeds brilliantly.(as also does miles,metheny,gillespie,mendes,parker,carpenters,sassy vaughan,grover,et al)

 

[carlito]

i think that herb is an excellent trumpeter.that being said,is he the greatest(or the best)? no,no he isn't.like the captain said....

Captain Bacardi did not say that Herb Alpert was not the greatest or the best trumpet player.

What the Captain said exactly was: "The fact is that Herb Alpert is not a great trumpeter by any means".

That is the statement that many folks took issue with.

Thanks, carlito

 

[Steven J. Gross]

Please don't lock this thread- this is interesting.
I mean that sincerely.

 

[seashorepiano]

Even in forums, I hate to see when people disagree on matters like this so sharply. Isn't this starting to dissolve into merely a game over semantics? We could argue about the uses of different wording in regards to Herb Alpert's techniques, listener satisfation, if we reduce words to their lowest denominator. Why don't we just stick with the music?

 

[Rudy]

Thanks for the discussion, but this thread has run its course. Closed.