Herb Alpert, Tijuana Brass And Other Delights ON BBC4

[Mike Blakesley]

So the next time you are getting ready to complain the Herb Alpert doesn't "play the way he used to" remember, he can't. And most importantly, doesn't want to.

I don't agree with that; he "played the way he used to" when he recorded new trumpet tracks for some of the LOST TREASURES tunes.

It's pretty obvious even listening casually that the whole "relearning" thing happened sometime between THE BRASS ARE COMIN' and RISE. Listen to the difference in trumpet sounds between those two albums. It's like night and day. I think he can play any way he wants to.

 

[manifan]

Since I haven't seen the documentary I can only go by what I'm reading, so I'm interested in knowing why the narration would need to be changed for PBS.

 

[Harry]

Since I haven't seen the documentary I can only go by what I'm reading, so I'm interested in knowing why the narration would need to be changed for PBS.

The female narrator has a rather pronounced British accent. ("Hub Al-puht")

I find it rather charming to listen to - British accents tend to lend a bit of class to anything - but you know how provincial some executives in this country can be. Heck, they couldn't even leave The Beatles' recordings alone - they had to be "Americanized."

Harry

 

[Steve Sidoruk]

This is without a doubt, the best Herb Alpert Bio that I've ever seen. If it is used here in some way, I'm sure that nothing wil be changed. I've heard that Herb, Lani and family members were quite pleased with it.

 

[Harry]

This is without a doubt, the best Herb Alpert Bio that I've ever seen. If it is used here in some way, I'm sure that nothing wil be changed. I've heard that Herb, Lani and family members were quite pleased with it.

Oh absolutely. No doubt about it.

My point was simply that American broadcast executives tend to look at things differently. That's why so many British shows end up being "adapted" here and Americanized. These fool executives think that a British accent will send the audience packing.

The key thing to remember about broadcasters is that they are heavily concerned with not giving reason for audience tune-out. And they perceive an accent to be a reason for people to tune out.

I think the BBC4 doc was superbly produced, covered an astonshing amount of Herb's story in just an hour, and did so with polish and class. I hope it DOES show up here untouched - but worry about what might occur.

Best solution - license it for DVD release as a premium with the new album!

Harry

 

[Stephen Vakil]

British accents tend to lend a bit of class to anything

 

[Mike Blakesley]

I think the narration is excellent as is but then I'm not involved with PBS so what do I know? I never realized there was an aversion to British accents. (or is it because it's a female voice?)

 

[CherryStreet]

Let me make myself absolutely clear:

I ABSOLUTELY LOVE & ADORE THIS DOCUMENTARY JUST THE WAY IT IS.

And I don't necessarily think that the gals "British" accent or that she is female is what would be the impasse with the PBS suits. The main problem is that she is not a "name" and she doesn't have American audience recognition or a "Q" rating if you will. I would be willing to bet that if you asked the wonderful Marcel Guillou who I had the pleasure of meeting and chatting with that night at Vibrato, if they had more money, they too probably would have had a British "name" lay down the narration for the BBC. I wonder if Stephen Fry's name is at the top of that wish list!

Now let's look at the current state of PBS here in America. Unfortunately this wonderful documentary would not work for the local channels as a "Pledge Drive". You know the programs, Doo-Wop, Oldies, Disco or Frank Sinatra etc. They cut back to in studio hosts as they press you for your donation, usually adding a bonus premium to your pledge and then the cut back to the program. The rub is that these are LIVE or "lost" concerts. This documentary is not a live concert to return to and it is only a hour long. It simply won't work as a "Pledge Drive" on the local PBS level it's just not long enough or contain any live concert songs.

So that brings us to PBS current slate of national programing here in the States. There is only one current PBS slate that this doc would be perfect for and that is "American Masters". It would be perfect for that program, but the rub is as I explained before, American Masters always has a "name" narrating the story. The recent excellent Doors doc on American Masters had Johnny Depp lay down the narration. The recent excellent Sam Cooke (Herb Alpert Connection!) American Masters has Danny Glover as a narrator. You can now see how this works. Not to mention that American Masters gets its funding from National Endowment for the Arts and by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, two uniquely "Americanized" institutions.

So that brings us back to my original post about this amazing British produced documentary and America's PBS. It would have to have a name narrate it for American Masters, so why not just skip PBS? Go for Sundance or IFC here in the States. It would be a perfect fit for those cable outlets just the way it is. Or like I said before, bundle it with the new CD as a "Special Package". Again, I LOVE THE PROGRAM JUST THE WAY IT IS...
But it won't play on PBS in its current state.

 

[Harry]

I tend to disagree a little bit regarding what shows on PBS during pledge-drives. There are plenty of documentaries that are interrupted by pledge breaks where the in-studio hosts extoll the virtues of the subject or producer of the documentary.

And the fact that this is exactly one-hour of programming means that a PBS station running it could stretch it out to an hour-and-a-half or two hours depending on how long their interruptions are.

I too hope that it somehow finds a way to US audiences without change - it's great the way it is.

Thinking-cap time:
Assuming they DID decide to change the narrator to a "name", who might be a good choice?

Harry

 

[CherryStreet]

Assuming they DID decide to change the narrator to a "name", who might be a good choice?

Let's start with Sting! And he's British! I think he would be perfect even for the American PBS suits.

Harry also said, "I tend to disagree a little bit regarding what shows on PBS during pledge-drives. There are plenty of documentaries that are interrupted by pledge breaks where the in-studio hosts extoll the virtues of the subject or producer of the documentary. And the fact that this is exactly one-hour of programming means that a PBS station running it could stretch it out to an hour-and-a-half or two hours depending on how long their interruptions are."

I also thought the same originally and even posted that idea here before I saw this great doc. But it has a wonderful, shorter flow to it. You might be able to get away with cutting in up into two 30 minute segs but anything else I think would be detremental. It really does have a wonderful flow. Breaking it up into 10 or 15 minute segs would kill it .

But if they could add maybe a Old TJB Special or the 1996 Montreux concert to it, then you could take breaks at the 30 minute mark. Again after seeing it, I think breaking it up into shorter sections wouldn't work. Just my two cents.

 

[Harry]

Assuming they DID decide to change the narrator to a "name", who might be a good choice?

Let's start with Sting! And he's British! I think he would be perfect even for the American PBS suits.

Harry also said, "I tend to disagree a little bit regarding what shows on PBS during pledge-drives. There are plenty of documentaries that are interrupted by pledge breaks where the in-studio hosts extoll the virtues of the subject or producer of the documentary. And the fact that this is exactly one-hour of programming means that a PBS station running it could stretch it out to an hour-and-a-half or two hours depending on how long their interruptions are."

I also thought the same originally and even posted that idea here before I saw this great doc. But it has a wonderful, shorter flow to it. You might be able to bet away with cutting in up into two 30 minute segs but anything else I think would be detremental. It really does have a wonderful flow. Breaking it up into 10 or 15 minute segs would kill it .

But if they could add maybe a Old TJB Special or the 1996 Montreux concert to it, then you could take breaks at the 30 minute mark. Again after seeing it, I think braking it up into shorter sections wouldn't work. Just my two cents.

I was thinking that the narrator should be someone who's not in the documentary itself, and Sting is. So is Quincy Jones, Lou Adler, Jerry Moss, and Richard Carpenter, so I'd rule those out too.

Agree about the flow - it would be a shame to break it up - but if that's the only way it would get shown here, then I guess we could put up with it. Anyone serious enough about wanting it "whole" could record it and edit out the pledge breaks.

Tying its broadcast to another Alpert-related special would be icing on the cake.

Harry

 

[CherryStreet]

I would love to also see more of Herb playing that lovely version of Rise at his piano! Can't get enough of it. I also would love to see the full Vibrato concert because they did film the entire show. Talk about bonus material! It's also a "natural" sound recording like Herb at his piano and that's why I think it works so great. The didn't clutter Vibrato with cables and plug into the soundboard or bring in a cumbersome flying jib camera to distract the crowd like the aborted other doc. It's a simple two camera approach and it uses the great natural acoustics & "feel" of the room at Vibrato.

I think the stereo sound editing of the whole project is top-notch. I really liked the sound editing when Herb is talking about constructing "Lonely Bull".

 

[manifan]

I've heard plenty of British accents on PBS. That shouldn't be a deterrent to them. I want to see this!!!!!

 

[Stephen Vakil]

like the aborted other doc.

What other documentary?

Stephen

 

[CherryStreet]

like the aborted other doc.

What other documentary?

Stephen

Vibrato October 8th, 2008- 5 cameras, huge production. Never panned out.
Herb said they were filming for an upcoming Special/Documentary that evening.

 

[Steve Sidoruk]

That was supposedly to fill out the video they shot during the Jazz Club Tour. But, they apparently have not decided what to do with it. They should have packaged it as a DVD included with Anything Goes as a "Making Of" program.

 

[CherryStreet]

I've heard plenty of British accents on PBS. That shouldn't be a deterrent to them. I want to see this!!!!!

Like we said, it has nothing to with "British accents on PBS". If this doc were to make it to "American Masters" it would have a "star" narrator.

There is one other PBS route I neglected to bring up. It's called PBS WORLD.
It's a 24-hour digital channel featuring documentaries and history programs
which launched in 2006.

Unfortunately it is usually buried in the spectrum and sadly is only available
in about 35% of the households across America. But I could see this popping up there if all else fails. Too bad we can't convince Herb & Lani to do Austin City Limits!

 

[lj]

It's a sad commentary that Herb had to go overseas to find someone interested in broadcasting his musical documentary. But the British always remained more interested in the MOR (middle of the road) music that Herb represented in the 1960's than Americans. Sadly his American fans may have to solely rely on You Tube musical snippets as our only video memory of Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass.

It's also sad story how the music America invented--jazz--is far more popular overseas than in the U.S.
American jazz artists could not make a living performing solely in America. Performing in Europe and Japan is their economic salvation.

 

[Dave]

Yes, for sure, Jazz is far more respected overseas, than it is here, & Herb indeed does fall into that category...

Sales & reissues of Jazz by overseas labels definitely proves it...

Little wonder that this documentary may also follow (& create) such a trend...



Dave

 

[Steve Sidoruk]

It's a sad commentary that Herb had to go overseas to find someone interested in broadcasting his musical documentary.

In the interest of accuracy, Herb didn't go there, but rather, the BBC approached Herb about creating this documentary. Of this, I have direct knowledge.

I am in agreement though, with most of your additional commentary. I'm not sure what the answer is about providing TJB video to U.S. fans. It might just be timing.

The vast majority of the U.S. music scene today is mostly toilet-filling material and what is good out there doesn't get proper exposure or recognition. The only good thing, is that there are now so many other than mainstream ways to find and hear good artists. And remember, we're talking about the "music business." And businesses are supposed to make money - not have all their creative or intellectual properties literally stolen and given away free via the WWW! Who would want to or could stay in the business by enduring continued losses?

 

[CherryStreet]

It's a sad commentary that Herb had to go overseas to find someone interested in broadcasting his musical documentary. Sadly his American fans may have to solely rely on You Tube musical snippets as our only video memory of Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass.

Herb surely never needed to go "overseas" to have his story told. He has plenty of money, he could have financed a million dollar documentary years ago if that is something that he wanted and thankfully he's hardly a narcissist and that's why we love him. That's another thing that make this doc so special. He and Lani invited Marcel & his crew into their HOME and we get to see Herb in his everyday life in his music & adjacent art studio and learn that it is actually Lani who is his "curator" (she knows the "name" of all of his sculptures) as they drive around the Malibu property in a golf cart. This BBC production was made with a lot of love and on a shoe string budget, but it looks like a million bucks.

Thankfully we were sparred some cheesy made for TV bio pic in the 80's. You know the type, Scott Baio would have played Herb and his latter struggles with the "horn" would have had a kooky dream sequence with his horn "taunting" him.

As for the YouTube clips. As Steve Sidoruk has pointed out numerous times, even Herb hasn't seen some of that stuff since he shot it. Old stuff "trickles out" that is just a fact. Even the Doors are just now releasing older footage and concerts and Led Zeppelin recorded a reunion concert two years ago and that probably will not see the light of day on DVD for years if ever.
Whenever some new lost TJB footage shows up, I rejoice rather than wonder what took so long? I anxiously look forward to the rumored color live UK concert I have been told is out there!

 

[CherryStreet]

And remember, we're talking about the "music business." And businesses are supposed to make money - not have all their creative or intellectual properties literally stolen and given away free via the WWW! Who would want to or could stay in the business by enduring continued losses?

So true Steve. The only "money" to be made in the business today is from touring. Herb is 75 years old and still is willing to get in a plane and do live dates though he doesn't need the money. Yet some folks here still complain that Herb won't come to their state to play. Herb has made the effort to play out, let's make the effort to see him and Lani and not just complain.

 

[manifan]

Thankfully we were sparred some cheesy made for TV bio pic in the 80's. You know the type, Scott Baio would have played Herb and his latter struggles with the "horn" would have had a kooky dream sequence with his horn "taunting" him.

That made me shudder! BAH!

It would be nice if someday a tasteful movie -- with the proper casting -- were to be made. Not likely, but it would be a good story, I think.

 

[CherryStreet]

It would be nice if someday a tasteful movie -- with the proper casting -- were to be made. Not likely, but it would be a good story, I think.

I totally agree. I think Herb's life would make a great movie. So many great stories, like when Cecil B opened a massive shot centered on Herb's back as he was drumming and Herb later went to see The Ten Commandments and realized that Mr. DeMille didn't use it! "I'm ready for my close up Mr. Demille!" The romance between he & Lani, his producing Angels In America which basically brought AIDS and it's destruction of lives into the mainstream, A&M records, The Carpenters, his Jerusalem trip, touring with the TJB...so many great stories!

I think you could even make a movie on just the A&M story alone, Jerry's life is also filled with amazing stories.

 

[thedutchboss]

Hi guys,
I missed the BBC special on Herb Alpert which was broadcasted in april and in september. Is ther anyone out there who made a copy and can send it to me? Seems the BBC does not provide copies of the programme. Would be great and hope to here form all of you fans out there!
Kind regards,
Ronald, The Netherlands