here is a question that i've been wnting to ask for a while,so here goes! when i was in high school(circa 1983)a friend of mine sold me the WARM album--for only three dollars!!!his family had it,but they got bored with it,so he decided to let me have it.one of my favorite tunes on the album(besides the sea is my soil) is without her. it starts off very quiet,with a guitar,piano,and bass,then herb coming in singing,then all of a sudden--whoosh!!-the orchestra comes in full blast,and it gets quiet again,then-oh you all know the rest! it happens all over again! however ,that's noy my main focal point. a few years later,i was listening to an easy listening station,and blood,sweat and tears' version of the same song came on! i was wondering:whose version came out first:herb's or b,s,&t's? the song was written byn harry nillson,so i was wodering if herb commissioned nillson to write the song. as i understand it,herb was going thru a divorce from his first wife,and may have wanted to have a song that expressed his feelings at that time.or did b,s,&t's version come out first,and herb heard and said'that's it!that's the song i was looking for!'i really would like to know! while the song is not this guy's in love with you,i(another favorite of mine),herb(in my opinion)successfully captured the sadness of the breakup of a relationship(he was going thru it at the time!)better than any singer i've heard,with the exception of marvin gaye and sinatra.anyway,that's my question!
herb's(and b,s&t's)'without her'
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Captain Bacardi
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Dave
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Generally, Harry Nillsson usually WROTE songs (and recorded them) that OTHERS had hits with...
I have rarely heard his own versions of "Without Her" or "One" (Three Dog Night hit the charts with this "one"...), among others...
Quite a lot of "songwriters" like Nillsson, Eric Kaz and Jimmy Webb, usually profited off other singers doing their songs, as opposed to actually making albums or launching their own versions of songs off of them...
However, given the stregnth of Nillsson's "suppossed singing talent", he did have a hit with Freddie Neil's "Everybody's Talkin'" and "Without You", even wasn't actually his own... (though I sure thought so, on both of them...)
Dave
I have rarely heard his own versions of "Without Her" or "One" (Three Dog Night hit the charts with this "one"...), among others...
Quite a lot of "songwriters" like Nillsson, Eric Kaz and Jimmy Webb, usually profited off other singers doing their songs, as opposed to actually making albums or launching their own versions of songs off of them...
However, given the stregnth of Nillsson's "suppossed singing talent", he did have a hit with Freddie Neil's "Everybody's Talkin'" and "Without You", even wasn't actually his own... (though I sure thought so, on both of them...)
Dave
Herb didn't commission the song. Harry Nilsson's original was issued in 1967 (two years before Herb's "Warm" LP) , and the BS&T version in 1968 (a year earlier).
I do agree with the original poster's point about the way Herb's version is structured. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I always considered "Warm" (which I bought the week it came out) a concept album...the photo of Herb on the horse at the beach, the lead-off being "The Sea Is My Soil"....and the rhythym of "Without Her" being similar to the crashing of waves. To me, it's a "beach" album....but the foggy in the morning, slowly burning off to reveal sunshine, Malibu kind of beach. Which looks like the kind of day they may have had and the place where they may have shot the photo of Herb on the horse.
---Michael Hagerty
I do agree with the original poster's point about the way Herb's version is structured. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I always considered "Warm" (which I bought the week it came out) a concept album...the photo of Herb on the horse at the beach, the lead-off being "The Sea Is My Soil"....and the rhythym of "Without Her" being similar to the crashing of waves. To me, it's a "beach" album....but the foggy in the morning, slowly burning off to reveal sunshine, Malibu kind of beach. Which looks like the kind of day they may have had and the place where they may have shot the photo of Herb on the horse.
---Michael Hagerty
DAN BOLTON
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I heard Herb's versionfirst, and I'm glad I did...Al Kooper's vocal on the BS&T version never did it for me at all...sorry, Al...sounds like you're throwing a tantrum, and Herb sounds generally devastated when he sings it.
A lot of the credit for the arrangement on WARM has to go to Shorty Rogers...that man was a genius! When I first heard the orchestra "explode", I thought, "Wow...THIS has to be what it feels like to break up, when it first really hits you"...and 25 years later, when I got divorced, sho' nuff...that's how I felt...
Dan, who DID go on Without Her, after a fashion, anyway...
A lot of the credit for the arrangement on WARM has to go to Shorty Rogers...that man was a genius! When I first heard the orchestra "explode", I thought, "Wow...THIS has to be what it feels like to break up, when it first really hits you"...and 25 years later, when I got divorced, sho' nuff...that's how I felt...
Dan, who DID go on Without Her, after a fashion, anyway...
Steven J. Gross
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The beach seemed to be a big part of Herb's style in the '60s & '70s:
The original TJB Specials were loaded with beach scenes...girls dancing, the band playing, Herb above the shore as the sun set over the Pacific Ocean, the TJB doing an amazing version of "A Taste Of Honey" with a full orchestra on the beach.
The "Rise" video featured shots between a (Herb & Lani) photo shoot and everyone dancing down the shoreline.
I agree with Michael in that Warm seemed to be somewhat of a concept album...and a great one at that!!
Jon
The original TJB Specials were loaded with beach scenes...girls dancing, the band playing, Herb above the shore as the sun set over the Pacific Ocean, the TJB doing an amazing version of "A Taste Of Honey" with a full orchestra on the beach.
The "Rise" video featured shots between a (Herb & Lani) photo shoot and everyone dancing down the shoreline.
I agree with Michael in that Warm seemed to be somewhat of a concept album...and a great one at that!!
Jon
DAN BOLTON
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I'm not sure of the exact time that the TJB was disbanded, but I think it was sometime in '69...so there might not have been any tours, per se when this song was current. I don't know for sure...but it was about this time. A lot of the songs on WARM weren't the typical TJB type-sounding music. When, for sure was the TJB disbanded? I'm kinda drawing a blank, as usual...
Lotta help, aren't I...
Dan
Lotta help, aren't I...
Dan
Captain Bacardi
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DAN BOLTON
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This is what I get for posting when I'm half asleep...WARM was recorded and released before TBAC, and that album was also the title of the last TJB TV special, so...the group was still intact when WARM was recorded...I don't remember any touring info from this period, though...I guess a better question might be, when did the TJB stop touring, at least in it's original form? And, were they still on the road when TBAC was filmed?
Blame it on the weather; I've been second guessing the ice and snow all day...maybe up to 9 inches of snow on top of an inch of ice by Thursday morning...my day off...
Dan
Blame it on the weather; I've been second guessing the ice and snow all day...maybe up to 9 inches of snow on top of an inch of ice by Thursday morning...my day off...
Dan
Captain Bacardi
Well-Known Member
DAN BOLTON said:
The last concert that I'm aware of was in November of '69, which was broadcast on the BBC on New Year's Eve of '69. This is the concert that many of us have that included the medley with "Music To Watch Girls By". So that would be after the TV Special of The Brass Are Comin'.
Capt. Bacardi
Captaindave
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brasil_nut said:Michael Hagerty said:
You're so right, Michael:
Left out of the Studio entrance onto LaBrea...left onto Sunset...a little drive through town...Beverly...Bel Air...Brentwood...all the way to the "right" coast!! I can see 'em now!!!
Jon
...suddenly 'left-handed' and adapting...
I love southern California...
And, what a marvelous time it was back then in the sixties...if you lived then, do you remember? It was just about magic...life has seemed kind of bland ever since. Yes? Or, is it just me experiencing a typical bout of longing for the good old days?
Captaindave
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DAN BOLTON said:
I saw the TJB perform in concert at the Public Auditorium in Cleveland, Ohio on October 27, 1969. Tickets were $7.50 - I still have the ticket stubs and the advertisement for the concert. O.C. Smith was the opening act.
That was the last concert tour, I think. It seems I have heard somewhere - maybe here on this forum - that a tour took place just after the Brass Are Comin" TV special was recorded. And, I think it was a rather brief tour - maybe five weeks or so.
At that concert, they played "Good Morning, Mr. Sunshine" from the Brass Are Comin' album. I think it may have been about the time that album was being released.
Shortly thereafter, I seem to remember reading an article in the newspaper that Herb was disbanding the TJB. So, I'd place the public announcement in early 1970. Maybe very late 1969. Subsequent to that particular tour. There was an article about it somewhere on the Internet - maybe on the old Wendell Johnson webite...don't remember for sure.
WARM came out about mid-1969...I remember just a few weeks before I graduated from high school that year in June hearing Zazueria being played on the radio. That would have probably been in May, 1969.
So, the TJB did tour briefly in late 1969, when the Brass Are Comin' album was released. I saw one of the concerts....the disband announcement was sometime shortly after that...
Took me a day to figure out what was wrong with this picture...Jon, if you went left out of the studio gate, you'd be going the wrong way! Gotta go right to get up to Sunset...then left out to the beach.
Left out the studio gate, left at the first light (Santa Monica) and straight the same distance would get you to Alhambra...and unless you really want to see the Phil Spector crime scene, it's not recommended.
Michael Hagerty
Left out the studio gate, left at the first light (Santa Monica) and straight the same distance would get you to Alhambra...and unless you really want to see the Phil Spector crime scene, it's not recommended.
Michael Hagerty
Steven J. Gross
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Steven J. Gross
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I am convinced that the bossa nova / jazz treatment Blood Sweat and Tears gave the song inspired Herb to do it- I don't think the Nilsson version was a factor, even though he wrote it.A&Mguyfromwayback said:
Al Kooper, founder and lead singer of BS&T on that first album, is making a rare LA appearance Jan 15th at McCabes Guitar Shop http://www.mccabes.com/condata.html
I will be there!
DAN BOLTON
Well-Known Member
Interestingly, WITHOUT HER isn't the first song by Harry Nilsson that Herb sang...back in '63 or so, he did I'D DO IT ALL AGAIN. Shoulda charted with that one, but...alas, it just didn't happen...sometimes, the public just doesn't know what's good...
It's really amazing, the amount of work in the studio that Herb was doing in the early '60's...trying to get the TJB off the ground; the BMB, as well; and a solo career...all the while trying to set up a record company.
Dan
It's really amazing, the amount of work in the studio that Herb was doing in the early '60's...trying to get the TJB off the ground; the BMB, as well; and a solo career...all the while trying to set up a record company.
Dan
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