Karen's Solo 'Singles' which would you have picked?

[BarryT60]

I think we all have surmised how Karen's solo project may have been received back in 1980.... But had it been released, which do you think may have been the most effective singles?

For me - I feel "Making Love In The Afternoon" would have been a strong lead. The earthy arrangement, and Cetera background vocals - and more mature lyric - I believe - would have caused radio to pause and really give this one some air-play.

I love the initial version of Make Belive as well.

And - I recall playing My Body Keeps Changing My Mind over and over again when the album first was released, so I assume that one also could have been quite the fan favorite.

Finally, one of my favs, was Still Crazy - although I doubt the label would have ever released that one, since it had been released by P Simon earlier. But - - what a gem!

I'd love to hear some of your choices!

Plus - does anyone know where Karen and Phil were leaning as far as a single choice?

 

[A&Mguyfromwayback]

I'm not a megafan like you all.....I love a lot of her solo album but so much of it is uber-disco; if disco was beginning to die out by the time the album was to be released, I could understand A&M being hesitant to release it as is. Having said that, however, every time I hear that original version of "Make Believe It's Your First Time", I think it could have been an instant #1 record, a la "I Honestly Love You". It's that good, so emotionally affecting, sweet but sad at the same time. I wish they would have at least tested the waters with it and put it out as a single.....

 

[song4u]

every time I hear that original version of "Make Believe It's Your First Time", I think it could have been an instant #1 record, a la "I Honestly Love You". It's that good, so emotionally affecting, sweet but sad at the same time. I wish they would have at least tested the waters with it and put it out as a single.....

I agree with you about this song. I think it would have been better received by the public because it wasn't such a huge departure from what people were accustomed to hearing from her. Disco went on for a long time, so I don't that was the issue so much as whether people would like/accept her as a disco artist. Karen's rich alto on ballads was a big part of her success as a singer.

 

[Harry]

I'm not a megafan like you all.....I love a lot of her solo album but so much of it is uber-disco; if disco was beginning to die out by the time the album was to be released, I could understand A&M being hesitant to release it as is. Having said that, however, every time I hear that original version of "Make Believe It's Your First Time", I think it could have been an instant #1 record, a la "I Honestly Love You". It's that good, so emotionally affecting, sweet but sad at the same time. I wish they would have at least tested the waters with it and put it out as a single.....

Yes! Emphatically YES! And you can add this one to the other thread on "breath control". Listen to that last line and sustained note. It just goes on forever...

Far and away the biggest goosebump moments on the solo album.

Harry

 

[newvillefan]

Great topic!

I'm probably pretty much out on my own on this one but here goes ... I don't think 'Make Believe' would have fared well at all as a single. It's far too quiet for radio, especially in the era in which it would have been released. I think it builds beautifully towards the end, but nothing really much happens for the first two minutes or so, unless you're conciously listening to it closely. If you had the radio on in the background and this song came on, I think it would just drift by unnoticed. It's almost like saying 'One More Time' would have been good as a single.

Having said that, I think Karen could/would have performed the ballads ('Make Believe', 'If We Try', 'Still Crazy' etc) on promotional TV show appearances to showcase her album and vocal talent. Songs like 'Make Believe' would also fare much better to a TV audience, where you're actually focused on the performance as a viewer. My guess is that she'd have consciously avoided the ballads as singles, because there would be an immediate association with the Carpenters.

For me - and with the above in mind - the strongest tracks as far as single material goes are 'If I Had You', 'My Body Keeps Changing My Mind' and 'Lovelines'. All really radio-friendly. The latter two are probably too similar in style to have both been released so I'd go for either/or. I never realised this until I once played the album for a friend, with the two songs sequenced together. When 'Lovelines' finished and 'My Body...' started, he remarked "is this the same song again?".

As Richard once rightly pointed out, artist like them needed a hit single ahead of the album to make sales go nuts. If I was to plump for three songs pulled as singles during 1980, I'd have gone in this order:

March 1980 - "If I Had You" (lead-off single)
April 1980 - album release
June 1980 - "My Body Keeps Changing My Mind"
September 1980 - "Makin' Love In The Afternoon"

Karen's album could have come out while they were recording what became Made In America, and she would have had the whole of 1980 to milk her success, and properly market and promote it in the above way, with TV appearances to support the singles.

We still don't know to this day what solo material (if any) she performed on Olivia's 1980 TV special, but she's there on the show, confusingly only during the end credits. For her to appear at the end, I'm pretty sure some segment or other must have been filmed and later cut when the album was cancelled but Olivia, probably out of courtesy to her friend, kept the closing sequence as originally shot with Karen intact.

To my knowledge, there's never been any mention from anyone about potential single choices - not from Karen, Phil, Itchy, Olivia, Richard, A&M or anyone else. Shame, because I'd love to know what songs Karen would have gone for. With the album artwork and sleeve done and a catalogue number assigned to it by March 1980, they must have had some firm idea what song they'd pick to launch it. My guess to this day is still "If I Had You". It still sounds fresh when you play it even now.

 

[newvillefan]

Here's a rare radio interview from 1989 where they actually discuss 'If I Had You' from 2m55s.

The presenter comments "It sounds like it could have been recorded in 1989. It's hip, it's fresh, it's clean...there's not a hint it would be a song that's actually ten years old". You can't get any better endorsement than that!

 

[Toolman]

Think I already said this on the other thread about the solo record, but my picks would have been:

First single: "Making Love in the Afternoon", for the exact reasons Barry mentions in the first post.
Second single: "If I Had You", because (hopefully) you've now got radio's attention and this is IMO the best cut on the record.
Third and final single: "Make Believe It's Your First Time", for the reasons Harry states. As the final single it would have eased the transition onto the next Carpenter duo album.

Would not have pushed the dance stuff. Regardless of merit, it would have lumped her into the category of "here's another has-been trying to cash in on disco". If the album came out and people responded well to that material, maybe, but not as part of the initial master plan.

I am definitely not good at picking hits, though. I loathed "You Light Up My Life" -- thought it was one of the most boring and unimaginative ballads I'd ever heard. Way wrong on that one.

 

[newvillefan]

Would not have pushed the dance stuff. Regardless of merit, it would have lumped her into the category of "here's another has-been trying to cash in on disco". If the album came out and people responded well to that material, maybe, but not as part of the initial master plan.

I think one of the disco/dance tracks as a single would have been ok. Not as the first single but maybe to show people her versatility. 'Lovelines' and 'My Body Keeps Changing My Mind' were sophisticated enough to fit that bill. I still don't actually consider Karen's album to be out and out disco, as Richard keeps banging on about. I'd describe it as contemporary dance, not disco. Donna Summer's 'I Feel Love' or ABBA's 'Voulez Vous', they're disco. Karen's album was nowhere near that.

I am definitely not good at picking hits, though. I loathed "You Light Up My Life" -- thought it was one of the most boring and unimaginative ballads I'd ever heard. Way wrong on that one.

I suppose we've all experienced that. I loved 'Something In Your Eyes' but it sank without a trace.

 

[Jamesj75]

No doubt, Karen's efforts with this solo album were for her to branch out as an artist; hence, the album incorporated some new sounds, disco being one of them. I think that "My Body Keeps Changing My Mind" would have made for an outstanding single release, perhaps even as the first single. Virtually all top acts from the 1970s dabbled in disco back in the day, including Barbra Streisand, Rod Stewart, Helen Reddy, and Barry Manilow. So it would have made sense for even Karen Carpenter to have a disco single on the charts.

I also think think that "Making Love in the Afternoon" (with Peter Cetera) would have excelled. The lyrics are a bit too suggestive for my personal tastes, but the urge to merge (if you will) of the Carpenters with Chicago would have been a major event as powerhouse duets were often compelling and successful.

There are some other gems on Karen's solo CD, so a case could be made for other songs as single releases. But if anyone disagrees with me, I guess I just lost my head...

 

[newvillefan]

I guess I just lost my head...

A few people have mentioned in the past that this would have been a good choice of single. IMHO it's a pleasant album track at best.

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

I guess we will never know everything about her appearance on Olivia's Hollywood Nights special. If you look at the special as a whole, it included alot of guests and she mostly sang duets when introducing them. It was also a plug for her Xanadu movie w/ Gene Kelly. When you look back, she really had quite alot of big artists at that time all in a 1 hour format. She sang duets with Gene Kelly, Andy Gibb, Elton John and Cliff Richard. I believe the only time she allowed one of her guests to sing solo was Elton John on his song Little Jeannie.

However that does not mean she could not have introduced Karen by saying please welcome my very good friend Karen Carpenter with the first single "If I Had You" from her first solo album....insert (audience roars) cover of her solo album appears quickly on screen and then pans to Karen in studio version performing this song. Olivia's show aired April 14, 1980 just about a month before the Carpenters MMM special.

Instead what we have is Karen dressed in what appears to look like she just finished taping MMM in studio B. (scratched head)

 

[Jamesj75]

IMHO it's a pleasant album track at best.

Oh, I definitely agree. Further, for all of us fans, it's such a shame this album wasn't released upon completion.

 

[Chris]

You all make some great points about the solo songs. I too think that "Making Love in the Afternoon" would have done very well as a single, and I've often thought that "Make Believe It's Your First Time" would have been wonderful as well. While I agree that it was probably far too quiet for that time, it's just so gorgeous that I like to think its strength would have helped it out. It's easily my favorite on the whole album along with "If I Had You".

When "If I Had You" was released as a single in 1989, I was happily surprised to hear it getting quite a bit of airplay on the light rock stations. I remember one particular time when I was at work and it was being played on the radio. I mentioned to a co-worker that it was Karen Carpenter. He said, "Really? Wow!". People were not expecting that type of sound from her. He was impressed. Of course another favorite memory that I've shared before, was one time after the song was played, a DJ said, "That was the late, great Karen Carpenter with "If I Had You". That is hot!!"
Makes me wish all the more that her album would have been released at the time. At least we finally got to hear it in full and we all have it to treasure for always.

 

[A&Mguyfromwayback]

Yes! Emphatically YES! And you can add this one to the other thread on "breath control". Listen to that last line and sustained note. It just goes on forever...

Far and away the biggest goosebump moments on the solo album.

Harry

Perhaps - but "The Rose" was a huge radio hit in 1980, and that's just piano, voice, and strings....

 

[Toolman]

No doubt, Karen's efforts with this solo album were for her to branch out as an artist; hence, the album incorporated some new sounds, disco being one of them. I think that "My Body Keeps Changing My Mind" would have made for an outstanding single release, perhaps even as the first single. Virtually all top acts from the 1970s dabbled in disco back in the day, including Barbra Streisand, Rod Stewart, Helen Reddy, and Barry Manilow. So it would have made sense for even Karen Carpenter to have a disco single on the charts.

I also think think that "Making Love in the Afternoon" (with Peter Cetera) would have excelled. The lyrics are a bit too suggestive for my personal tastes, but the urge to merge (if you will) of the Carpenters with Chicago would have been a major event as powerhouse duets were often compelling and successful.

There are some other gems on Karen's solo CD, so a case could be made for other songs as single releases. But if anyone disagrees with me, I guess I just lost my head...

Guess I'm not familiar with any Helen Reddy chart-restoring disco hits (at least in the states). From what I remember, her U.S. Top 40 action was pretty much over after "You're My World" and the "Ear Candy" album. I do remember a dance track being released later but didn't think it had any impact.

Although lots of established acts did dabble in disco -- even the Rolling Stones -- those usually aren't considered high points in their careers. The Rod Temperton songs, though not really to my taste, rise above. But "My Body", at least to my ears, just sounds like another cookie-cutter, assembly line disco track, a la Cher's "Take Me Home" and a hundred other songs about "hooking up on the dance floor despite your better judgment". Ick.

Not really disagreeing with anyone, just pondering, perhaps not unlike the folks at A&M were doing in 1980.

 

[Jamesj75]

Guess I'm not familiar with any Helen Reddy chart-restoring disco hits (at least in the states). From what I remember, her U.S. Top 40 action was pretty much over after "You're My World" and the "Ear Candy" album. I do remember a dance track being released later but didn't think it had any impact.

Your comments definitely make sense to me, and I agree with your assessment of many being in the mode of "cookie-cutter, assembly line disco." I also meant to include Cher and the Rolling Stones as examples. The Helen Reddy reference pertained to the disco-sounding hit "I Can't Hear You No More" (from 1976). She later recorded "Make Love to Me" as well as a slew of disco songs (most of which I only recently discovered). So, yes, for better or for worse, the "dabbling in disco" was prevalent, with varying degrees of chart success.

 

[Dave60640]

I could totally hear "My Body Keeps Changing My Mind" on some disco hits collection today were it released back in the day. It snuggles up right next to Heart of Glass, I Love The Nightlife and Funkytown to name a few. I think If I Had You totally would've turned some ears back then too.

 

[A&M Retro]

Karen didn't appear in the end credits of Olivia's Hollywood Nights special. She was featured singing "Heartache Tonight" with Olivia, Tina Turner, Toni Tennille, Cliff Richard, Andy Gibb, Peaches and Elton John. The credits roll on the follow-up song, "I Honestly Love You".

The announcer introduces her at the start of the show by saying, "Special appearances by Karen Carpenter, Dick Clark, Toni Tennille and Ted Knight", while the featured guests (Gene Kelly, Elton John and Andy Gibb) got top billing. She was apparently scheduled to promote the album on the show, though it's obvious it was still 'on hold' at the time of the show's taping, and it hadn't yet been shelved. Talk about a lost opportunity.

That being said, I think the way Karen was ultimately presented is pretty cool. She pops up as a 'surprise' guest at about halfway through the "Heartache Tonight" segment, and it works great. Plus Karen has her funkier hairstyle in the shot, which makes her look much hipper than she did in Carpenters TV appearances (even if she is wearing her MMM duds).

 

[vze4rkna]

Funny you all should mention this here, but I spoke with Randy Schmidt (author of Little Girl Blue) about this exact thing along time ago. Randy specifically asked Olivia if Karen was on her special to promote her solo album and if Karen had performed a solo number, but she did not recall that. Given that Olivia and Karen were such good friends, and that Olivia knew how important this project was to Karen, I think she would have recalled something as important as this.

 

[BarryT60]

Karen didn't appear in the end credits of Olivia's Hollywood Nights special. She was featured singing "Heartache Tonight" with Olivia, Tina Turner, Toni Tennille, Cliff Richard, Andy Gibb, Peaches and Elton John. The credits roll on the follow-up song, "I Honestly Love You".

The announcer introduces her at the start of the show by saying, "Special appearances by Karen Carpenter, Dick Clark, Toni Tennille and Ted Knight", while the featured guests (Gene Kelly, Elton John and Andy Gibb) got top billing. She was apparently scheduled to promote the album on the show, though it's obvious it was still 'on hold' at the time of the show's taping, and it hadn't yet been shelved. Talk about a lost opportunity.

That being said, I think the way Karen was ultimately presented is pretty cool. She pops up as a 'surprise' guest at about halfway through the "Heartache Tonight" segment, and it works great. Plus Karen has her funkier hairstyle in the shot, which makes her look much hipper than she did in Carpenters TV appearances (even if she is wearing her MMM duds).

I don't think Karen ever looked better - or spunkier.... Thanks for posting!

Re all the comments - I think we'd all agree it could have been cool to see what radio would have said, to some of the newer vibes coming from Karen's bag of vocal tricks... Clearly, she was intending all along to rejoin Richard - much the same way Marie had done solo projets but bounced back to Donny on and off... so it could have been a very nifty musical diversion - at the very least...

I'm just glad we have these recordings to listen to - and continue to keep all fingers crossed that Richard releases a few more of those hidden gems in the vaults.

 

[Rumbahbah]

If I Had You would have been the clear front-runner as a single (for all the other dubious comments he's made about Karen's solo album, Richard is right about this track being the stand-out), as it's quite punchy and demanding, but I'd have been tempted to suggest If We Try as well. A superb arrangement with a meltingly warm vocal and a great sax break. It manages to pull off a relaxed feeling without sounding uninvolving, something that many of the tracks on A Kind of Hush attempted but didn't achieve.

Surprised to see the amount of support for Making Love in the Afternoon as a single. It always sounded terribly lightweight to my ears and at odds with the subject matter (although it too wouldn't have been a suitable single, Love Making Love to You, a song with a similar theme, sounds much more convincing in this respect).

 

[toeknee4bz]

I think we all have surmised how Karen's solo project may have been received back in 1980.... But had it been released, which do you think may have been the most effective singles?

For me - I feel "Making Love In The Afternoon" would have been a strong lead. The earthy arrangement, and Cetera background vocals - and more mature lyric - I believe - would have caused radio to pause and really give this one some air-play.
I love the initial version of Make Belive as well.
And - I recall playing My Body Keeps Changing My Mind over and over again when the album first was released, so I assume that one also could have been quite the fan favorite.
Finally, one of my favs, was Still Crazy - although I doubt the label would have ever released that one, since it had been released by P Simon earlier. But - - what a gem!
I'd love to hear some of your choices!
Plus - does anyone know where Karen and Phil were leaning as far as a single choice?

This is way too weird, Barry. These are EXACTLY the tracks I would've picked, plus "If I Had You". Get OUT of my brain!

 

[A&Mguyfromwayback]

By the way, "Heartache Tonight" is a phenomenal clip - filmed and edited in a standard 70's cheesy variety show way, but they're all having so much fun, and they all look and sound great. The one weird thing for me is Karen's sudden appearance without any introduction. Toni, Tina and Olivia start the number, Linda "Peaches" Tavani has a very specific entrance - and then Karen's just sort of there too.....I wonder why....

 

[newvillefan]

The one weird thing for me is Karen's sudden appearance without any introduction. Toni, Tina and Olivia start the number, Linda "Peaches" Tavani has a very specific entrance - and then Karen's just sort of there too.....I wonder why....

This goes back to what I said earlier, I am sure Karen filmed some performance slot on the show to promote her new album, but it hit the editing room floor when the album was shelved. So all we're left with is a random appearance by her towards the end of the show, that bears no relation to anything.

 

[newvillefan]

This song is a killer. How it didn't make the album is beyond me. This version has been edited down to around 4 minutes, right what it should have been. It would have been an amazing track to open side 2 of the LP.



I always thought the running order of Karen's album was a bit strange, they had three slow songs clumped together to close the album and that never sat well with me. Had I had my way, this is how I would have had the album play out:

Lovelines
Making Love In The Afternoon
Make Believe It's Your First Time
If I Had You
My Body Keeps Changing My Mind
Still Crazy After All These Years

Don't Try To Win Me Back Again
Love Makin' Love To You
Guess I Just Lost My Head
If We Try
Remember When Lovin' Took All Night

I always thought Make Believe It's Your First Time ran beautifully into If I Had You, hence my tracklist here. I would have ditched Still In Love With You and the God-awful All Because Of You though, there was room for much better material.

The other thing that always riled me was they billed Still Crazy as an "oldie" in the newsletters that preceded its cancellation and when I read them I think "enough with the oldies!". Half their career had been built around oldies (Ticket To Ride, Close To You, Bacharach/David Medley, Hurting Each Other, Now and Then album concept, Please Mr Postman, Desperado, I Can Dream Can't I, the list goes on and on). I think Karen should have struck out with a completely new album of fresh material, instead of hanging on the coat-tails of other artists. It worked in their early days but this was 1979.