Another classic line from Harry...Love it! LOL
Karen's Solo 'Singles' which would you have picked?
- Thread starter BarryT60
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Another classic line from Harry...Love it! LOL
I've read on A&M Corner several times that Karen's solo album has sold more than one million copies to date. After 16 years on the market throughout the world, that makes total sense. Can anyone verify that?
The album came out on 10/8/96. The only way I knew about it was because I'm a member of the Clinic for Obsessives Collectors, as well, and was tipped off by another member of the same clinic. LOL>>
That was also the day I was hired for a new job in Chicago. I bought "Entertainment Weekly" at Midway Airport after my interview at the airport coffee shop, and read the pathetic review of "Karen Carpenter" written by David Browne on the train. And I was royally pissed at his snide remarks about the album, and of the intentionally horrid picture they chose of Karen looking so damned thin during the sessions. They picked the absolute worst shot taken of her. Very tabloid-esque.
New York Times Magazine also did a fantastic, in-depth article on the story of the album, and there were a few blurbs in the papers, as well. Aside from that, NOTHING.
A&M produced a limited number of posters for the album (which are now very rare), and they put out a press kit. Richard did nothing to promote it, other than write the liner notes (which were far from complimentary). Phil Ramone also did a radio show in 1989 that was aired in certain markets to promote "Lovelines", but that show was more of a Carpenters tribute than anything else. I wouldn't call this very limited promotion much of an effort.
The album came out on 10/8/96. The only way I knew about it was because I'm a member of the Clinic for Obsessives Collectors, as well, and was tipped off by another member of the same clinic. LOL>>
That was also the day I was hired for a new job in Chicago. I bought "Entertainment Weekly" at Midway Airport after my interview at the airport coffee shop, and read the pathetic review of "Karen Carpenter" written by David Browne on the train. And I was royally pissed at his snide remarks about the album, and of the intentionally horrid picture they chose of Karen looking so damned thin during the sessions. They picked the absolute worst shot taken of her. Very tabloid-esque.
New York Times Magazine also did a fantastic, in-depth article on the story of the album, and there were a few blurbs in the papers, as well. Aside from that, NOTHING.
A&M produced a limited number of posters for the album (which are now very rare), and they put out a press kit. Richard did nothing to promote it, other than write the liner notes (which were far from complimentary). Phil Ramone also did a radio show in 1989 that was aired in certain markets to promote "Lovelines", but that show was more of a Carpenters tribute than anything else. I wouldn't call this very limited promotion much of an effort.
Calvin R Murty
Member
I recall hearing on Singapore radio a US produced radio docu on Lovelines too. I remember recording it on cassette (1989) and it had Paul Mitchell commercials scattered throughout - they probably sponsorted it. The interview was done by a lady who spoke to Richard about the album. Richard was very enthusiastic about "If I Had You" and "Kiss Me...". Must see if I still have that tape somewhere...
A&M RETRO-Karen's album went out-of-print in 1995 2005(in US)-it was only on the market for about nine years,and it sold approximately 75,000-85,000 copies.There's a possibility that worldwide sales could have reached one million,and the album might still be in print in Japan.
Whenever sales figures are quoted here,they are US sales only.Trying to figure out worldwide sales figures of an album would be a monumental task.US sales figures can be verified through the record label(accounting dep't).This was easier to do back when A&M was an independent label,but now that Universal has ownership,contacting them is a little more difficult.
Whenever sales figures are quoted here,they are US sales only.Trying to figure out worldwide sales figures of an album would be a monumental task.US sales figures can be verified through the record label(accounting dep't).This was easier to do back when A&M was an independent label,but now that Universal has ownership,contacting them is a little more difficult.
I suspect you meant 2005, right?
I was just quoting from a previous post here that it sold 1,000,000 copies. I'm sure they have sold many copies on I-Tunes, and it's still available. Perhaps it's an estimate of sales from I-Tunes, the actual CD release and other sources. Would love to know the answer.
BarryT60
Well-Known Member
How funny.... we should compare more specifics on some of the song reviews....This is way too weird, Barry. These are EXACTLY the tracks I would've picked, plus "If I Had You". Get OUT of my brain!
toeknee4bz
Well-Known Member
Great topic!
I'm probably pretty much out on my own on this one but here goes... I don't think 'Make Believe' would have fared well at all as a single. It's far too quiet for radio, especially in the era in which it would have been released. I think it builds beautifully towards the end, but nothing really much happens for the first two minutes or so, unless you're conciously listening to it closely. If you had the radio on in the background and this song came on, I think it would just drift by unnoticed. It's almost like saying 'One More Time' would have been good as a single.
Having said that, I think Karen could/would have performed the ballads ('Make Believe', 'If We Try', 'Still Crazy' etc) on promotional TV show appearances to showcase her album and vocal talent. Songs like 'Make Believe' would also fare much better to a TV audience, where you're actually focused on the performance as a viewer. My guess is that she'd have consciously avoided the ballads as singles, because there would be an immediate association with the Carpenters.
Someone else mentioned Bette Midler's "The Rose" concerning quiet hit singles, and it made me think of an even bigger fluke of a hit single: "Leader of the Band" by Dan Fogelberg, released in 1981 and subsequently hit the top 40 well into the spring of '82... amongst all the techno-synthesizer dance pop that was all over the place. That said, "Make Believe" would've at least cracked the top 40, if not going higher, IMHO.
There is yet another possibility, which I am surprised no one else has considered: These experimental single releases may have been held back additionally at Karen's request, in an 'all or nothing' attitude, when A&M was reluctant to release the album in full.
newvillefan
I Know My First Name Is Stephen
I don't think for a second Karen would have allowed any 'test the water'-type single release if she thought the album might not follow. The standard formula was usually to release a single and then the album a month or so later.
I think Karen probably had her favourites from the album and would have had a choice in her mind for the lead-off single, but as soon as she wrote the memo to A&M staff saying the album was cancelled, all hopes of anything from it being released or heard evaporated with it.
Rick-An Ordinary Fool
Well-Known Member
Wait...she wrote a memo? I wanna see this memo 
Can you imagine how much something like this would fetch on ebay, signed in her own words.
Can you imagine how much something like this would fetch on ebay, signed in her own words.
newvillefan
I Know My First Name Is Stephen
Wait...she wrote a memo? I wanna see this memo
Can you imagine how much something like this would fetch on ebay, signed in her own words.
A fortune I'd say Chris!
It was from her to all of those who had been involved preparing the album's launch. Everything in parentheses is from her actual note (text lifted from the Coleman book):
At A&M, the sales team had been whipped up into a state of fervor, the album had been designated a catalog number, and artwork was being prepared with fine new photographs. Now the die was cast, Karen sent a politically deft memo to everyone concerned with the project.
As Richard had "wanted to take some time off", she wrote, she had been recording a solo album with Phil Ramone "and I'm not totally happy with it, and now Richard's back in action I'm really excited that we're gonna work on a new album together again".
After all the years of reading about her feelings for the album, A&M's treatment of her and the lack of support from her brother, I bet she wrote that through gritted teeth. There's no way those words were thought up by her. It all seems centered around Richard and 'togetherness again'. A million miles away from how she really felt, but isn't that how things came to be for her? No control over anything. "Politically deft" speaks volumes.
I agree. Poor Karen. She really got the shaft with the solo debacle. And everyone knows how she really felt about it. She loved it.
On another note, Richard claimed Karen's favorite tunes from the solo record are the ones he chose for "Lovelines"....the title track, "If We Try", "Remember When Lovin' Took All Night", and "If I Had You".
Who knows? I did hear he was not a fan of "If We Try" from somebody who brought that tune up to him at A&M when "Lovelines" came out. I think the conversation was about which single they should release. Richard said, "No hook! Bleh."
Oh, well, I think it's great!
On another note, Richard claimed Karen's favorite tunes from the solo record are the ones he chose for "Lovelines"....the title track, "If We Try", "Remember When Lovin' Took All Night", and "If I Had You".
Who knows? I did hear he was not a fan of "If We Try" from somebody who brought that tune up to him at A&M when "Lovelines" came out. I think the conversation was about which single they should release. Richard said, "No hook! Bleh."
Oh, well, I think it's great!
The four solo tracks that Richard included on "Lovelines" are absolutely the best solo tracks-they're the album's strongest tracks,feature Karen's best vocals,and arrangements that are more similar to the Carpenter's style-smooth,jazzy type-ballads.
Looking back,I can see that Richard approached the situation with Karen's album the right way-including the (four) best tracks on a regular Carp album,and remixing "Lovelines" and "If I Had You" to perfection."Lovelines" remains one K&R's most desired and critically-acclaimed albums.If Karen's solo album had never been released,it wouldn't have mattered to most fans-they have the "Lovelines" album,and that's enough.
Looking back,I can see that Richard approached the situation with Karen's album the right way-including the (four) best tracks on a regular Carp album,and remixing "Lovelines" and "If I Had You" to perfection."Lovelines" remains one K&R's most desired and critically-acclaimed albums.If Karen's solo album had never been released,it wouldn't have mattered to most fans-they have the "Lovelines" album,and that's enough.
Rick-An Ordinary Fool
Well-Known Member
But I guess it did matter to most fans or we would never have seen the solo album come to light, with Karen it always mattered, with Karen it will never be enough. Richard knows this, the fans know this as well.
Mark-T
Well-Known Member
I have to disagree, mr J.
I love the solo disc- and my favorites are on it. Still Crazy, Last One Singing the Blues, Make Believe, I Guess I Just Lost My Head. The four tracks from Lovelines, however, are great (well three of them. I hate "Remember When Loving".) If We Try is the best of the four, IMHO.
I love the solo disc- and my favorites are on it. Still Crazy, Last One Singing the Blues, Make Believe, I Guess I Just Lost My Head. The four tracks from Lovelines, however, are great (well three of them. I hate "Remember When Loving".) If We Try is the best of the four, IMHO.
Absolutely - Richard may have thought that he would quieten those fans pushing for the release of Karen's solo material by putting out four of the tracks on Lovelines, but it just fed the desire to hear the rest of the material.
In terms of the four tracks that were picked, I'd say they are four of the stronger tracks from the solo album, but on hearing the two extra tracks that were included on From the Top, I was surprised at how different in style there were, as the four picked for Lovelines were perhaps quite similar in style to each other, which kind of gave the impression that the whole album was all like that. Maybe Richard picked the four that he felt were the closest to the Carpenters' own material in order to fit in best with the other tracks on Lovelines. I recall reading an interview in 1990 with him where he said that he chose 'the four we liked best'. At the time I thought that by 'we' he meant himself and Karen, but now I think it unlikely that they compared notes on this, so presumably he meant himself and the people at A&M.
As a result, it was quite a revelation to hear the full album in 1996 and all the styles attempted. And to find a different version of Make Believe It's Your First Time that turned out to the original version. They managed to keep that quiet...
In terms of the four tracks that were picked, I'd say they are four of the stronger tracks from the solo album, but on hearing the two extra tracks that were included on From the Top, I was surprised at how different in style there were, as the four picked for Lovelines were perhaps quite similar in style to each other, which kind of gave the impression that the whole album was all like that. Maybe Richard picked the four that he felt were the closest to the Carpenters' own material in order to fit in best with the other tracks on Lovelines. I recall reading an interview in 1990 with him where he said that he chose 'the four we liked best'. At the time I thought that by 'we' he meant himself and Karen, but now I think it unlikely that they compared notes on this, so presumably he meant himself and the people at A&M.
As a result, it was quite a revelation to hear the full album in 1996 and all the styles attempted. And to find a different version of Make Believe It's Your First Time that turned out to the original version. They managed to keep that quiet...
Passenger
Active Member
Karen's original version of "Make Believe" still remains my favorite track on the album, so much so that I find it hard to listen to the version with Richard's "treatment". I only wish it had been remastered with the four Lovelines tracks. Does anyone know if the CD single released in Japan was remastered, or if it's the same version from the solo album?
newvillefan
I Know My First Name Is Stephen
I definitely think the four tracks selected were chosen by Richard so that they fitted with the rest of the material on the Lovelines album. I don't think he meant that he'd compared notes with Karen, I think after the album was originally shelved it would have been pretty much a 'closed subject' between the two of them. I can't imagine them bringing it up and comparing notes with her in the years after it was jettisoned. It remained close to Karen's heart up to the day before she died, but I'm sure Richard was glad to see the back of it.
Like you say, up until the release of Lovelines, I'm sure Richard never thought the whole album would see the day. I think the hounding only intensified once the fans had a taster of the tracks he did release. I too remember LOVING 'My Body Keeps Changing My Mind' the first time I heard it on the box set. For me, I'd loved the solo tracks on Lovelines, so to find out he was drip-feeding a couple more was fantastic. I honestly thought that was the absolute most he was willing to put out there, so when I found out they were going ahead with the solo album as a separate release, I was overjoyed!
I remember a story about Karen taking some of the material back to LA during the recording of the solo album and Agnes commented that she didn't like the line "I remember the first time/I laid more than eyes on you". That always cracked me up!
Bobberman
Well-Known Member
I agree karens solo album should have been released upon completion in 1980 however when it finally came out it was better late than never my choices for singles would have been if we try and guess i just lost my head which would have done well for easy listening radio and light adult contemporary radio and lovelines would have been a great mor hit at the time make believe its your first time in its original version would have worked as well .in any case i would have purchased this back then when i was 13 saving my allowance money to buy lps and build my now huge music library.
aaflyer98
Well-Known Member
I just wish any of the tracks had been released in 1980. Then there would be no speculation, no what if's, and no lost opportunities, no regrets and no hard feelings. Especially for K&R.
I don't know Richard personally, but I would bet he has big regrets, as he should, over Karen's solo album. But, hindsight.... And I may be wrong about that. Enough from me.
I don't know Richard personally, but I would bet he has big regrets, as he should, over Karen's solo album. But, hindsight.... And I may be wrong about that. Enough from me.
Must Hear This Album
Well-Known Member
I often wonder what might have happened had Karen recorded in 1979-80, not a disco album, but a low-key jazz album, along the lines of Norah Jones' debut, "Come Away With Me." No overdubbed vocals. Just Karen.
Someday
Well-Known Member
Personally, I do not 'like' the solo project for the simple reason that it doesn't sound like Karen Carpenter. Her rich, warm alto is what made me a fan and it's all missing, even though, it was kinda meant to be. However, it seems to me that it really should have been released in 1980 as it could only have been a positive step in Karen's journey to 'finding herself'. If she really was trying to break free and gain some real independence, goodness knows, it may even have helped her beat the disease.
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