LONELY BULL... Which cut MUST you skip?

[Steven J. Gross]

Last time I checked, this was not a website out of Communist China. Music is subjective, Herb has criticized his own music and that's the way it is. When I spoke to Julius Wechter he was very candid about music he made that HE didn't like.

To call members ideas "lame" is plain rude and immature.

To try and quash discussions is not what this place is about. Lighten up.

 

[CherryStreet]

Last time I checked, this was a website for "fans". Come to think of it, I always thought a "fan" was someone who celebrated an artist and their work not tear it down on a lazy afternoon with nothing better to do.

 

[Dave]

...Do we want stuff like "Warm" ever to see the light of day on CD...? ...Just keep up the inane, insulting threads like this and we will never see it...

The idea of expressing our "least favorite tracks" and the likely reissue or unlikely reissue of more original albums is completely irrelevant...

If anything related to that thought were really the case, I'm sure Herb would've visited this forum and seen what the majority least-likes and would've reissued his stuff that's out, so far, that way... (That, or there'd be a lot of "custom-made" Sounds Like...'s w/o "Miss Frenchy Brown", or "specially-put together" ...Lonely Bull's w/o "Tijuana Saurkraut", or "made-to-order" S.R.O.'s w/o "Freight Train Joe"...)

So, I agree, that we should lighten-up, and acknowledge that having these "thoughts" and posting them in these threads should strictly be regarded as "something just for fun" and not stuff that's negative or depicts us as being negative... And, yes, as one member put it: "A conversation point"...!

There is no reason that anything here should depict us fans or "fans", as being anything less!



Dave inkshield:

 

[thetijuanataxi]

I, too, have a problem with the repeated bashing of some of the TJB songs. I have never felt the need to skip over any of the songs on any of the TJB albums. I love some tunes more than others but nothing on any TJB album is "painful to listen to", "embarrasing" or made me say "what was Herb thinking?". I think that most rap, hip hop and vocalizer laden crap such as Brittney Spears may fit that description. But I have no problem with "Tijuana Sauerkraut", "Miss Frenchy Brown", "Freight Train Joe", "El Garbanzo", or any of the other TJB tunes that have gotten a beating on these boards over the years. There's a big difference between saying a song is your least favorite and saying it is painful to listen to or embarrasing. For Pete's sake someone here even had a problem with "Spanish Flea"! I agree with Steve Sidurouk and the others who say this forum should be about celebration and appreciation of Herb and his music, not tearing it down. And yes, I realize that Herb critiques his own music. It's obvious by the fact that I can't buy a Signature Series CD of "Volume 2" or "Warm" etc. Let's not make Herb think he did the right thing by deleting those from the reissue program. I'll take TS over just about anything new that's played on the radio these days.

 

[Captaindave]

Last time I checked, this was not a website out of Communist China. Music is subjective, Herb has criticized his own music and that's the way it is. When I spoke to Julius Wechter he was very candid about music he made that HE didn't like.

To call members ideas "lame" is plain rude and immature.

To try and quash discussions is not what this place is about. Lighten up.

I'm with you 100% on this.

Any restriction or arbitrary censorship on free and open discussion is inappropriate and and taken far, far too seriously. Reminds me of the old "hero worship" days back in the sixties when Beatles fan clubs were popular.

I cannot even remotely imagine that anyone of the stature of Herb Alpert is going to consult this website for advice or opinions, and make his decisions about what he will or won't do, or even what he thinks about anything, based on the posts herein. You're giving yourselves far, far too much credit and importance. If anything, he probably finds them amusing...

As long as the discussion is polite, respectful, and civil...there is nothing wrong with it...and who ever said that a "fan" has to like everything an artist produces??? Or cannot comment in anything other than a "I love it" way about a song??? As an intelligent adult, I find that type of attitude insulting and offensive...

 

[Harry]

Though LONELY BULL, as an album, in nearly a half-century old, I don't think of it as "ancient history" as someone put it. To me, it's still a viable piece of entertainment, and yes, I have likes and dislikes on it like most of us.

I've already mentioned that I'm typically not one to join in negative threads, and I don't consider this a "bashing". It's simply a place to express ones' opinions.

In fact, to turn this thread, or if it comes to it, series of threads into something positive, I considered the possibility of taking each of the least favorites, as voted by the membership here - whatever they ultimately are - and putting those tracks on a compilation CD-R, and betting that the resulting album would be better than much of the other dreck that's out there.

Yes, I'm saying Herb's "bad stuff" is better than most other's good stuff. How's that for "hero worship?"

Harry

 

[Captaindave]

Though LONELY BULL, as an album, in nearly a half-century old, I don't think of it as "ancient history" as someone put it. To me, it's still a viable piece of entertainment, and yes, I have likes and dislikes on it like most of us.

I've already mentioned that I'm typically not one to join in negative threads, and I don't consider this a "bashing". It's simply a place to express ones' opinions.

In fact, to turn this thread, or if it comes to it, series of threads into something positive, I considered the possibility of taking each of the least favorites, as voted by the membership here - whatever they ultimately are - and putting those tracks on a compilation CD-R, and betting that the resulting album would be better than much of the other dreck that's out there.

Yes, I'm saying Herb's "bad stuff" is better than most other's good stuff. How's that for "hero worship?"

Harry

I agree.

All of the TJB albums are unique and different and represent an integral part of the development of evolution of Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass. ALL the tracks on ALL the albums range from interesting to charming to "absolutely inspired"...depending on one's tastes and preferences. I don't think ANY of them are outright bad - just that some are preferred over others. I think the number and regularity of "absolutely inspired" tracks greatly increased as time went on and as Herb Alpert himself "grew" professionally, developed the concept, and gained control of where he was going with the TJB sound and style.

The Lonely Bull represents the beginning of the TJB career. It is the first step in a journey of development, progress, evolution, and growth. The songs fit the times in which they were recorded - for me, I remember those times beginning in about 6th grade in 1962-1963, and then I grew up for the rest of the decade with Herb Alpert as one of the major names in music for the rest of the decade of the sixties.

No one intends to "bash" the album, any of its content, or the artist...I think people are just talking and thinking "out loud" about it and throwing around some comments for the purpose of reflection and thought. That's good...I mean - who else can I talk to about all these things...my wife isn't really interested...

 

[Mike Blakesley]

I think threads about "least favorites" can actually be quite a bit more interesting than "most favorites" because most people love the same two or three songs on an album, while there are wide differences on "dislikes."

It's just another way of discussing the music. As they say, any publicity is good publicity.

 

[Mr Bill]

I think threads about "least favorites" can actually be quite a bit more interesting than "most favorites" because most people love the same two or three songs on an album, while there are wide differences on "dislikes."

It's just another way of discussing the music. As they say, any publicity is good publicity.

Thanks Mike! Between yours and Steve Gross's posts I feel somewhat redeemed.

My intent was never to "bash" but to provoke discussion....

--Mr Bill
who (being of German decent) thinks a single with "Tijuana Saurkraut" on one side and "Peanuts" on the other would be a hoot!

 

[Mike Blakesley]

You're welcome!

Like this thread or not, it's the liveliest discussion we've had in weeks (which is kind of surprising, considering a NEW SERGIO MENDES album just came out!)

Mike B.

 

[Steven J. Gross]

This is a great thread because I've got "Lonely Bull" in the CD player and it got it airplay at my place. Because of this thread!

Thanks Bill

 

[thetijuanataxi]

Captain Dave said:
"All of the TJB albums are unique and different and represent an integral part of the development of evolution of Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass. ALL the tracks on ALL the albums range from interesting to charming to "absolutely inspired"...depending on one's tastes and preferences. I don't think ANY of them are outright bad - just that some are preferred over others".


This is essentially my point. I have trouble understanding how a Herb Alpert fan would find any TJB song painful or embarrasing to listen to. Favorite and least favorite yes. It has nothing to do with hero worship. I never said that Herb was perfect.

Harry said:
"Yes, I'm saying Herb's "bad stuff" is better than most other's good stuff".


That's for sure!!

 

[CherryStreet]

I have trouble understanding how a Herb Alpert fan would find any TJB song painful or embarrassing to listen to.

You "nailed" it right there. Spoken like a "true" Herb Alpert fan.

"Hero Worship"? Sure. Why not. After all, the term "Fan" is derived from the term "Fanatic". High Road vs Low Road? I'd choose the "path of enlightenment" over the "trail of bashing" any day.

 

[Mr Bill]

Again, there was NO intent to "bash." I just thought it would fun to try something different than the constant yammering ad nauseum regarding the title track. How many compilations do NOT contain it? Or even start off with it as track one? (though as the first TJB hit that complaint has always been shallow or groundless IMO). I even toned down the verbiage in the initial post to make it less offensive.

The main goal here was to get chat going about the other fine tunes on the album as everyone always wants to talk about the title track. While it IS an important track in the Alpert Canon, the other 11 tunes are also worthy of disussion -- pro and con -- and I was merely trying to get dicussion going on them.

I thought by posing the question "180 out" from the usual "what's your favorite track" approach which we've done to death here would spark discussion*. To some extent that HAS occurred but with a negative side effect of angering some of you.

So., apologies to the offended!... but please talk about the other 11 tracks as well (because those 11 likely wouldn't each support having their own threads)

--Mr Bill

* Newcomers may disagree, but some of us mods who've beeen doing this for over a decade just like to "mix it up a bit."

 

[Captaindave]

delete

 

[Mike Blakesley]

You "nailed" it right there. Spoken like a "true" Herb Alpert fan.

Hmm, to be a true fan of an artist, I don't think there is a requirement that you love everything that person does or will do. If that's the case then I'm not a fan of anyone! Every single artist I love has had the occasional clinker. The artists admit that themselves in interviews all the time. I don't get why this is such a sore subject!

After some considered thought, I would have to say that out of all my favorite artists, the one who has the highest ratio of "good" (in my mind) to "bad" (in my mind) music is Alan Parsons. He's never done an album I won't pull out and listen to occasionally..but there are certain tracks that just make me grind my teeth.

 

[Captain Bacardi]

I wish this thread would just go away. This PC bullsh*t is making me nauseous.....



Capt. Bacardi

 

[Mike Blakesley]

the title track. How many compilations do NOT contain it? Or even start off with it as track one?

I once made a "best of the TJB" compilation where I put The Lonely Bull" as the LAST track. I was thinking of when you go to a concert and the band leaves the stage, but then they come back out to play an encore of some major hit and you slap your head and say "Oh yeah! I forgot they hadn't played that one yet!"

 

[Murray]

I wish this thread would just go away. This PC bullsh*t is making me nauseous.....

There's nothing wrong with this thread, so no need for it to go anywhere. I just wish that certain people would lighten up a bit. Not everyone has to like every song that Herb (or any other artist) has ever recorded to be considered a "true" fan. As long as we're not saying things like "Herb Alpert should burn in hell for unleashing crap like *insert song title here* on the world!", or calling each other idiots for not liking a song that we personally do like, then what's the harm in expressing our likes and dislikes. Thank God that we don't all like exactly the same things... the world (and this forum) would be a pretty boring place!

As far as "Tijuana Sauerkraut" is concerned, I sometimes skip the track because to me, a German oompah song doesn't "fit" with the rest of the album. Now before the PC crowd accuses me of being anti-German, or anti-sauerkraut, I will let it be known that I happen to be of German descent, and I loves me some good kraut, especially with bratwurst. ...and, "Tijuana Sauerkraut" isn't the worst song in the world, in fact I'd say that I prefer it to nearly any rap song I've ever heard!

 

[Dave]

Not that anything or anyone is getting too negative here, but...--

Ummmmmmm...maybe it's time, to move onto "What track MUST you skip on ...Volume 2"??????



Dave

 

[Captaindave]

I wish this thread would just go away. This PC bullsh*t is making me nauseous.....



Capt. Bacardi

Same here...

But the thread needs to stay and thrive, so that opportunities for reasonable and intelligent discussion continue to prevail.

By the way, I have an answer ready for the Volume 2 question...

 

[audiofile]

There are a lot of tunes on here that just don't work, in my opinion. I forgot about Acapulco 1922. Now that's a song I would leave off Solid Brass. That tunes brings down what would be a great compilation.

 

[Mike]

Death to the Sauerkraut! And, death to PC Bull $hit too!

Oh, by-the-way, good morning Mr. Bill, where ever you are!


Mike

 

[manifan]

Just because I'm a fan of an artist doesn't mean I can't dislike a song every now and then. I want to feel free to express my opinion about that. If a reader doesn't like it they can just skip over it. If I dislike a song I want to know if others feel the same way, and be able to discuss what it is we don't like about it. I can't believe Herb would be so close minded as to not want us to have that freedom. I'm sure he feels the same way.

 

[Mr Bill]

Oh, by-the-way, good morning Mr. Bill, where ever you are!

Hi Mike. I'm still in San Diego. Check your PM box -- I sent you a PM last week or so but it's still unread.

--Mr Bill
same thing for Rudy...