here's a question that i have that might captain bacardi mad or glad! well,here goes! a few years ago,i was reading an issue of billboard,and there was a fullpage ad for kenny g's latest album.the ad was full of record company hype;saying how many grammys kenny has won,how popular he is,etc.the ad went on to say that he is also the bestselling instrumentalist of all time! however,i have read in other publications that herb alpert holds that honor(including this website)as well! so who is folks,herb or kenny g?
no.1bestselling instrumentalist:herb or kenny g?
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Captain Bacardi
Well-Known Member
Get a rope! 
According to the Guiness Book Of World Records Kenny G is the all-time best selling "jazz" artist with nearly 50 million units sold. A clear indication that just because something sells doesn't necessarily mean it's good.
Herb has sold over 75 million units, so I guess as far as an "instrumentalist", he's still tops.
Capt. Bacardi
According to the Guiness Book Of World Records Kenny G is the all-time best selling "jazz" artist with nearly 50 million units sold. A clear indication that just because something sells doesn't necessarily mean it's good.
Herb has sold over 75 million units, so I guess as far as an "instrumentalist", he's still tops.
Capt. Bacardi
And even if the "G" man passes Herb in sales (unlikely at this point), there is still a nice long list of Herb accomplishments that G will never top.
- Having 4 albums in the Billboard top five at once
- Scoring a #1 hit as a vocalist and one as an instrumentalist
- Turning a $500 investment into a $500 million record company
- Hosting 4 (?) hit TV specials
- Having Top Ten albums and #1 singles in both the '60s and the '70s
- Discovering the Carpenters
- Discovering Sergio Mendes
- Producing God-knows-how-many hit albums and singles
- Having a wife who won a Grammy award
- Having the good sense to allow the Baja Marimba Band to record 10 albums even though they weren't great sellers
- Starting a charitable foundation
- Being the top selling artist in history who's too cool to exploit his own early work for fast $
- Running a record company that truly cared about the music and not just the money
- Inspiring one of the Web's coolest sites
and so on and so on.
- Having 4 albums in the Billboard top five at once
- Scoring a #1 hit as a vocalist and one as an instrumentalist
- Turning a $500 investment into a $500 million record company
- Hosting 4 (?) hit TV specials
- Having Top Ten albums and #1 singles in both the '60s and the '70s
- Discovering the Carpenters
- Discovering Sergio Mendes
- Producing God-knows-how-many hit albums and singles
- Having a wife who won a Grammy award
- Having the good sense to allow the Baja Marimba Band to record 10 albums even though they weren't great sellers
- Starting a charitable foundation
- Being the top selling artist in history who's too cool to exploit his own early work for fast $
- Running a record company that truly cared about the music and not just the money
- Inspiring one of the Web's coolest sites
and so on and so on.
Stephen Vakil
Well-Known Member
jimac51
New Member
Kenny G bashing is a popular sport but its similar to shooting fish in a barrel so the challenge is to note a few things in his defense. First,it was Jeff Lorber who brought the G man to Arista founder Clive Davis' attention,setting the wheels in motion for Kenny's solo career. Years later,Jeff would play an important part for Herb to catch his "Second Wind",both as recording artist and concert performer. So if your placing the "Six Degres of Herb" game,that's Kenny G in one move-scary,huh? A 2002 brief bio of Kenny on BMI's website gives Kenny the nod as #1 instrumntalist at 70 million sold-not noting the above mentioned 75 for Herb but I suspect that between the variables used in calcuating and time passed,this argument will never be resolved to an please an auditor. On Kenny's numbers defense,he owns the record for units sold for a Christmas album-more than Bing(remember-album sales) or Manheim or Nat or others-MIRACLES is certified with at least 13 million copies-all of them during the Soundscan era. The last couple of years have shown that Kenny's best selling days are behind him,with just about all of his releases since CLASSICS IN THE KEY OF G just doing marginal business(and that included two more Christmas themed albums and two hits collections). If you've senn that recent VHI special about the all-time horrible songs,look at the Michael Bolton snippet and replace Kenny's name for Michael and you can see how "over" Kenny has become. Bottom line,though,is as it should be-Herb created a catalog of lasting value both as group leader and solo artist-Kenny created some numbers. Mac
Murray
Well-Known Member
Herb's sales total would be much higher if people could actually buy new copies of his recordings! My entire Herb collection consists of three CD-Rs that a corner member was kind enough to make for me, and a couple of used LPs that I found in a thrift store. I would gladly buy all the TJB and solo albums on CD, but they aren't in print. 
Yet, I could easily obtain a new CD of any of Kenny G's albums if I wanted them. Something is very wrong here...
Murray
Yet, I could easily obtain a new CD of any of Kenny G's albums if I wanted them. Something is very wrong here...Murray
I've heard both Kenny G and Herb Alpert described as "instrumental pop". Isn't this category an oxymoron? Both their sounds are classified on radio and music stores as jazz, as are other artists like them. I've heard of "rock instrumentals" (i.e. "Walk, Don't Run", The Theme to "Hawaii 5-0", "Limbo Rock"), but what people call, "instrumental pop" I think is jazz. 
A quote attributed to guitarist Pat Metheny:
"It's a shame that jazz is now being turned into dried fruit. It's becoming
quantized, diced and defined. It's becoming an idiom. To me if it's
anything, jazz is a verb - it's more like a process than it is a thing."
In reference to Kenny Gs overdubbing of Louis Armstrong's "What a
Wonderful World": "When Kenny G decided that it was appropriate for him to defile the music of the man (Louis Armstrong) who is probably the greatest jazz musician that has ever lived by spewing his lame-ass, jive, pseudo bluesy, out-of-tune, noodling, wimped out, ... playing all over one of the great Louis' tracks (even one of his lesser ones), he did something that I would not have imagined possible, and if I ever DO see[Kenny G] anywhere, at any function, he WILL get a piece of my mind, and maybe a guitar wrapped around his head."
"It's a shame that jazz is now being turned into dried fruit. It's becoming
quantized, diced and defined. It's becoming an idiom. To me if it's
anything, jazz is a verb - it's more like a process than it is a thing."
In reference to Kenny Gs overdubbing of Louis Armstrong's "What a
Wonderful World": "When Kenny G decided that it was appropriate for him to defile the music of the man (Louis Armstrong) who is probably the greatest jazz musician that has ever lived by spewing his lame-ass, jive, pseudo bluesy, out-of-tune, noodling, wimped out, ... playing all over one of the great Louis' tracks (even one of his lesser ones), he did something that I would not have imagined possible, and if I ever DO see[Kenny G] anywhere, at any function, he WILL get a piece of my mind, and maybe a guitar wrapped around his head."
Herb holds the record for most copies of a single Christmas album sold "to me." I have bought the TJB CHRISTMAS ALBUM 8 times:
The 8 track
The original LP
The cassette (when the LP went out of print)
The reissue LP - twice (one to keep, one to play)
The CD - three times (one to keep, one to play, one as a gift)
So I've bought that record 8 times but have NEVER bought a Kenny G album of any type!
The 8 track
The original LP
The cassette (when the LP went out of print)
The reissue LP - twice (one to keep, one to play)
The CD - three times (one to keep, one to play, one as a gift)
So I've bought that record 8 times but have NEVER bought a Kenny G album of any type!
nightcat
Member
bob knack said:
Amen to what both Bob Knack and Pat Metheny say.
Although jazz has never been a commercially popular music (like pop or rock), it's always been fasionable to say you like jazz. The Kenny G launching years ago was actually very clever. Get this guy with his bland pop instrumental mush out on the airwaves and call it jazz. Now, the people who could never really could get into real jazz (the folks who said "where's the melody") could adopt Kenny G and announce to all their friends that they're into "jazz". How cool! Then came smooth jazz and once again the word "jazz" was hijacked.
It has always disturbed me when Herb Alpert and Kenny G. are compared. Obviously there's a comparison because they both were big sellers in the pop instrumental field. But Herb never described the TJB as a jazz group.
Jimac51 makes a good point in saying you have to give credit to the marketing aspect of Kenny G. Well, it was brilliant and his cds made a ton of money. But McDonalds makes a ton of money too, and they don't bill themselves as "fine dining". I respect Herb Alpert because not only did he never bill the TJB as jazz, but actually created his own sound. Once his group became big, there were other groups copying him.
I would respect Kenny G if he never allowed himself to be billed as a jazz artist. He was wise to use that term, because without it he never would have sold as many cds, but the honesty would have been admirable. He and Herb both made a fortune in the music business. The difference is Alpert was never a prostitute, and Kenny G has "call girl" written all over him.
Captain Bacardi
Well-Known Member
nightcat
Member
Captain Bacardi said:Why bring up a useless 4-year old thread????
Capt. Bacardi
I didn't feel this thread comparing the two artists had any current or dated feel to it. I read several posts I felt were interesting and wanted to comment. Some older threads cover outstanding topics. Bringing them to life allows newer members who weren't members the first time around to comment.
I do understand the last several comments from this viewpoint. It perhaps wasn't a good idea to bring back any thread concerning Kenny G. When it comes to this artist, the less said the better. With this in mind, I probably should have just left this sleeping (sax playing) dog lie.
toeknee4bz
Well-Known Member
nightcat said:
OK, I can't stay quiet any more. I'm sorry, guys, but I have a few issues with this whole thing.
First and foremost, would someone like to give a Webster's definition of the word jazz? My dictionary defines jazz as "music based upon Afro-American spirituals, blues, work songs, and the like, that evolved into increasingly complex styles marked by improvisation, propulsive rhythms, polyphonic ensemble playing, and a harmonic idiom ranging from simple diatonicism to chromaticism to atonality and tone clusters." I could easily pick out at least a dozen tracks by Herb Alpert or Kenny G which fit this description. Would you believe that an older gentleman once heard me pontificating the Herb Alpert/jazz subject and said to me "Herb Alpert wouldn't know jazz if it hit him in the head!" Apparently he never heard CONEY ISLAND or MIDNIGHT SUN!
Second, Pat Metheny's commentary (regarding Kenny G's interpretation of "What A Wonderful World") I find hypocritically hilarious (on Metheny's part). All of this condescending analysis from the man who released an album in the '90s called ZERO TOLERANCE FOR SILENCE. Yeah, right, Pat. You've got to be kidding!
Anybody who would classify white noise as music needs their head examined!Third, and finally, Why are we arguing about this?
Come on! Let's just have a good time here. The music world would be pretty dull if everybody liked the same thing. I think it's a pretty safe bet that we all prefer Herb over Kenny. Although they both have had a good run, Herb's entire music career is unequaled (see Mike's post above). Regardless of numbers, Herb's legacy will undoubtedly surpass that of Kenny G in every other aspect. However, I also happen to like some of Kenny G, practically everything Herb Alpert, and believe it or not, some of Pat Metheny's work as well. I'm not on a crusade. I just like good music, whether it's pop, jazz, rock, fusion, whatever. Let's give credit where credit is due. But if you don't like Kenny G, fine. No one is pointing a gun at you, forcing you to crank it up.
Tony
audiofile
Member
Would you believe there are actually people who think Herb was the Kenny G of the 60's? Everywhere I go, big time jazz heads seem to give Herb the same respect they would give Kenny G.
Just head over to Allaboutjazz.com. I think it's pretty pathetic and sad. Not to mention it makes me pretty mad.
Just head over to Allaboutjazz.com. I think it's pretty pathetic and sad. Not to mention it makes me pretty mad.
Without passing judgment on the merits of either artist, it's still pretty clear KG is unlikely to surpass Herb (# 22) in terms of Billboard's Top 500 best-selling artists.
Back in the '60s artists released 2 or 3 albums per year, and these days nobody puts that much "product" on the market. One album every two years is more typical.
JB
Back in the '60s artists released 2 or 3 albums per year, and these days nobody puts that much "product" on the market. One album every two years is more typical.
JB
Mike Blakesley said:And even if the "G" man passes Herb...there is still a...long list of...accomplishments that G will never top:
- Inspiring one of the Web's coolest sites.
Don't be such a tease! Give the URL when you make such a claim!
--Mr Bill
suspecting his return to the corner may suddenly be unwelcome by this little joke...
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