Questions About the RC Solo Album "Time" When It Was Played for A&M Executives

[Mark-T]

Ok, since I last led us down the wrong path asking about Karen's solo album, I've been listening to Time.

There were so many delays on Richard's album release, does anyone know what the A&M executives thought about it when they first heard the album?
How many tracks were recorded for it and what were they? Anyone know the answers to these questions?

 

[newvillefan]

Ok, since I last led us down the wrong path asking about Karen's solo album, I've been listening to Time.

There were so many delays on Richard's album release, does anyone know what the A&M executives thought about it when they first heard the album?
How many tracks were recorded for it and what were they? Anyone know the answers to these questions?

Great question. Pure speculation on my part but I’d hazard a guess that Herb waved it through on the basis that a) it had two legendary vocalists on it, b) ‘Something In Your Eyes’ was probably considered a potential radio hit and c) they wanted to give Richard a bit of a creative free pass after what had transpired with Karen.

P.S. The delays were due to A&M, not Richard.

 

[Chris May]

Great question. Pure speculation on my part but I’d hazard a guess that Herb waved it through on the basis that a) it had two legendary vocalists on it, b) ‘Something In Your Eyes’ was probably considered a potential radio hit and c) they wanted to give Richard a bit of a creative free pass after what had transpired with Karen.

P.S. The delays were due to A&M, not Richard.

They also gave Richard a pass to do more or less whatever he wanted. He was of great value to the label, generating many, many millions (with Karen), not to mention Herb wanted him to "stay busy."

 

[Mark-T]

They also gave Richard a pass to do more or less whatever he wanted. He was of great value to the label, generating many, many millions (with Karen), not to mention Herb wanted him to "stay busy."

And still in 2023, Richard IS of great value- as an artist, a keeper of the flame, and most importantly as a human.

 

[newvillefan]

They also gave Richard a pass to do more or less whatever he wanted. He was of great value to the label, generating many, many millions (with Karen), not to mention Herb wanted him to "stay busy."

At the risk of this thread heading quickly south, I have to say it: this is precisely what many of us have said about Karen’s album.

 

[Harry]

It was a timing thing though. Karen's album was listened to BEFORE anyone knew that she was going to die. At that point in time, there was no "sympathy" feelings. They were looking for a hit album and didn't find one, so she agreed to shelve it with the possibility of tweaking it later with maybe another song or two replacing some of the lesser tracks. It became a wait and see situation. She didn't know she was going to die, either.

KAREN DIED.

The other half of the duo, Richard, was now pretty much lost without his sister and partner. When you're a duo and half of that duo dies, you're left with a solo artist. Richard was not the main star - but he was the one still living. Naturally, the powers that be wanted to do all they could to help Richard through his dark days. They let him finish VOICE OF THE HEART. They let him work up another Christmas album, and they supported his making a solo album with some guest vocalists. It wasn't a great album in terms of hit material, and sunk like a rock. But they did support him with promotional materials etc., sent to radio and record stores.

I don't know, that all seems perfectly logical and reasonable to me.

As a fan of the duo, I can say that I'm reasonably happy with both TIME And KAREN CARPENTER. I own at least two iterations of each along with some single releases. We're getting close to having Karen's album now for thirty years (in three more). And we've had Richard's for getting close to forty years (in four more). Anyone who wanted either of these has had many opportunities to buy, listen, digest, and cherish them. Neither were hits. Neither will ever BE hits, no matter what anyone may want. I can't imagine any company thinking that issuing either on some special vinyl issue or box-set CDs would be a good idea. The market isn't there for either.

Instead of trying to fault someone, how about someone doing a song-by-song thread on either or both of these albums. Do a song a day and let everyone comment on the music, as that's what this forum is all about.

 

[Matthew S]

Ok, since I last led us down the wrong path asking about Karen's solo album, I've been listening to Time.

There were so many delays on Richard's album release, does anyone know what the A&M executives thought about it when they first heard the album?
How many tracks were recorded for it and what were they? Anyone know the answers to these questions?

I always wondered if this was also an opportunity to showcase his ability to produce others. So perhaps the album itself didn’t have to be a huge hitmaker per se, but a way to demonstrate his talents to produce to some extent.

 

[Harry]

I always wondered if this was also an opportunity to showcase his ability to produce others. So perhaps the album itself didn’t have to be a huge hitmaker per se, but a way to demonstrate his talents to produce to some extent.

Interesting thought.

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

I always wondered if this was also an opportunity to showcase his ability to produce others. So perhaps the album itself didn’t have to be a huge hitmaker per se, but a way to demonstrate his talents to produce to some extent.

If so, this wasn't a good advertisement at all IMHO. This is Made in America without Karen. Richard is and always was a great player but as a producer, there's never a dull moment. His song selection instincts were MIA (no pun intended) and he's not a lead vocalist. I'm puzzled too that Karen's good album got shelved but the extremely lackluster "Time" was allowed to be released. Sympathy is nice and all but a bad album is a bad album. Heck, at least have someone else step in for quality control purposes. The album completely died on the vine and had someone else been in there to distinguish the passable from the bad, things might have gone differently. I doubt having a bomb album pleased Richard all that much and it could have been avoided.

Ed

 

[Mark-T]

How would you have changed the album, Ed?

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

How would you have changed the album, Ed?

Richard is a fantastic player and vocal arranger. Interesting to note that on the Scott Grimes album, "You're The Voice" was produced by Herb Alpert but those vocal arrangements and execution are all Richard...and they're amazing. Herb and Richard could have been a formidable team if they'd have done more not only on that record, but on Richard's as well. Herb could have helped with song selection and toned down the over-production that runs rampant all over the record. I also would have gotten other vocalists besides Dionne and Dusty involved as Richard's lead voice was fey and powerless on this record. Some of that is the fact that he drowns it in reverb and doubles it every chance he gets but other more capable lead singers could have been interesting too.

Those two approaches likely would have taken care of a lot of what's wrong with this record IMHO.

 

[Mark-T]

Interesting thoughts, Ed. I find there's much to like but the record does not have a consistent overall feel.
I'm not crazy about either Dionne's or Dusty's voices- both seem ravaged. Scott's is "cute" for 16 years old and for the song he's given, but I like his full solo album much, much better.

 

[ars nova]

It was a timing thing though. Karen's album was listened to BEFORE anyone knew that she was going to die. At that point in time, there was no "sympathy" feelings. They were looking for a hit album and didn't find one, so she agreed to shelve it with the possibility of tweaking it later with maybe another song or two replacing some of the lesser tracks. It became a wait and see situation. She didn't know she was going to die, either.

KAREN DIED.

The other half of the duo, Richard, was now pretty much lost without his sister and partner. When you're a duo and half of that duo dies, you're left with a solo artist. Richard was not the main star - but he was the one still living. Naturally, the powers that be wanted to do all they could to help Richard through his dark days. They let him finish VOICE OF THE HEART. They let him work up another Christmas album, and they supported his making a solo album with some guest vocalists. It wasn't a great album in terms of hit material, and sunk like a rock. But they did support him with promotional materials etc., sent to radio and record stores.

I don't know, that all seems perfectly logical and reasonable to me.

As a fan of the duo, I can say that I'm reasonably happy with both TIME And KAREN CARPENTER. I own at least two iterations of each along with some single releases. We're getting close to having Karen's album now for thirty years (in three more). And we've had Richard's for getting close to forty years (in four more). Anyone who wanted either of these has had many opportunities to buy, listen, digest, and cherish them. Neither were hits. Neither will ever BE hits, no matter what anyone may want. I can't imagine any company thinking that issuing either on some special vinyl issue or box-set CDs would be a good idea. The market isn't there for either.

Instead of trying to fault someone, how about someone doing a song-by-song thread on either or both of these albums. Do a song a day and let everyone comment on the music, as that's what this forum is all about.

very well said. i hope, but know this will not put the solo projects issue to rest.

i have always felt SAY YEAH should have been the lead single, it certainly grabbed the ear, then follw with SOMETHING IN YOUR EYES.

i understand that a&m did not have confidence in karen's solo project. i think IF I HAD YOU could have been released to test the waters. but as pointed out to us, noone expected karen to die.

 

[Harry]

i hope, but know this will not put the solo projects issue to rest.

Not a chance!

 

[Toolman]

i have always felt SAY YEAH should have been the lead single, it certainly grabbed the ear,

Same here. If they were serious about trying to break Richard as a solo artist, maybe send this out to radio first without identifying the artist, as I think was done with the Bee Gees' "Jive Talkin'" and Donny Osmond's "Soldier of Love". Problem is, nothing else on "Time" sounded anything like it, so it didn't really represent any particular musical direction.

 

[David A]

Not a chance!

Nothing will, including crushing the threads that discuss it *ducks*

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

Interesting thoughts, Ed. I find there's much to like but the record does not have a consistent overall feel.
I'm not crazy about either Dionne's or Dusty's voices- both seem ravaged. Scott's is "cute" for 16 years old and for the song he's given, but I like his full solo album much, much better.

It's the fake-enthusiastic "woo" at the beginning of the tune for me. It's like...what? LOL!! That lyric is just wretched and no matter what Scott did, he couldn't overcome it. Why was John Bettis not available for this? He'd have come up with something MILES better than Oland did. I do like the vocal arrangements in it as Richard pulls some nice tricks out of his hat for this one but it's all for naught because of that terrible lyric.

Ed

 

[Geographer]

It's the fake-enthusiastic "woo" at the beginning of the tune for me. It's like...what? LOL!! That lyric is just wretched and no matter what Scott did, he couldn't overcome it. Why was John Bettis not available for this? He'd have come up with something MILES better than Oland did. I do like the vocal arrangements in it as Richard pulls some nice tricks out of his hat for this one but it's all for naught because of that terrible lyric.

Ed

Oland as lyricist is my chief complaint. It's hard for me to figure out what, for instance, Something In Your Eyes was about by listening to the lyrics. It took a few listens to understand what was going on in that song. I understand that Richard probably, like Karen, wanted to provide some separation from Carpenters, but I think his partnership with Oland was a mistake...at least for him. She might be a great lyricist in other genres, but for Richard's arrangement style and melodies, her lyrics were just "strange" to me. I do love TIME overall, though.

 

[newvillefan]

I do love TIME overall, though.

Likewise - I can put the album on any time and enjoy it. The only track I regular skip past is When Time Was All We Had. I totally get the tribute aspect to it, but it’s a bit too maudlin and sentimental for me, plus the way Richard speeds up his tempo on the last “I never will forget” irks me whenever I hear it. Karen’s Theme was much classier.

 

[ullalume]

Oland as lyricist is my chief complaint. It's hard for me to figure out what, for instance, Something In Your Eyes was about by listening to the lyrics. It took a few listens to understand what was going on in that song. I understand that Richard probably, like Karen, wanted to provide some separation from Carpenters, but I think his partnership with Oland was a mistake...at least for him. She might be a great lyricist in other genres, but for Richard's arrangement style and melodies, her lyrics were just "strange" to me. I do love TIME overall, though.

It still bemuses me that Richard didn't approach Bettis to put words to "when time was all we had".
As far as I know the pair have always been on great terms. They'd composed An Old Fashioned Christmas in '84 and I'm still not over you was recorded in '85, though I don't know when it was written.
I appreciate Bettis was really riding high in 85 and 86 and writing a lot of songs for Warner Bros Films, but surely he could've squeezed in a day for Richard and he to shoot the breeze.

Who knows.

Neil

 

[Mike Blakesley]

I'm puzzled too that Karen's good album got shelved but the extremely lackluster "Time" was allowed to be released. Sympathy is nice and all but a bad album is a bad album.

It's because the circumstances around the two albums were completely different. Read Harry's initial post above (really read it, don't skim it) and you will have the answer.

 

[CraigGA]

I personally love Something in Your Eyes. And, it is one of my favorites, both versions. I like the music so much any lyrics could be present and I’d still probably like it.

 

[newvillefan]

I personally love Something in Your Eyes. And, it is one of my favorites, both versions. I like the music so much any lyrics could be present and I’d still probably like it.

Both versions?

 

[Geographer]

Both versions?

Dusty Springfeild and Claire de la Fuente, I believe newvillefan is referencing.

 

[newvillefan]

Dusty Springfeild and Claire de la Fuente, I believe newvillefan is referencing.

Ah ok - makes sense! I’d forgotten about the later version.