Steve Gadd On Karen's Solo Album
- Thread starter Mark-T
- Start date
Nemily
"I'm goin' way down south to Baton Rouge, tonight"
This is a great question, Mark. The only one I know for sure is that Steve Gadd played on the track Still Crazy After All These Years on Karen's solo album as well as the Paul Simon version. He played one more than one track, John JR Robinson had two songs and Liberty DeVitto has several.
I agree she must have been over the moon about this.
Steve Gadd was an incredibly in-demand session drummer, especially in the 70’s. Without looking up all of the verified credits, two great songs Steve Gadd played on that come to mind immediately are Paul Simon’s 50 Ways To Leave Your Lover (iconic intro) and Steely Dan’s Aja.
It strikes me that maybe one of the reasons that he was Karen’s favorite drummer may have been because they both had this one thing in common. Neither one of them are front and center type solo drummers. They are both great examples of ….just because you can doesn’t mean you should. They instinctively knew/know how to best contribute to a song.
Carpenters Trivia note… Steve Gadd was the drummer for the novelty band The Clams, a Spike Jones tribute band who attempted to recreate the Slicker sound covering Carpenters hit recording (They Long to Be) Close to You. Then, some years later Carpenters covered the Clams recording on network TV, on their very first TV Special televised 12/8/76.
I agree she must have been over the moon about this.
Steve Gadd was an incredibly in-demand session drummer, especially in the 70’s. Without looking up all of the verified credits, two great songs Steve Gadd played on that come to mind immediately are Paul Simon’s 50 Ways To Leave Your Lover (iconic intro) and Steely Dan’s Aja.
It strikes me that maybe one of the reasons that he was Karen’s favorite drummer may have been because they both had this one thing in common. Neither one of them are front and center type solo drummers. They are both great examples of ….just because you can doesn’t mean you should. They instinctively knew/know how to best contribute to a song.
Carpenters Trivia note… Steve Gadd was the drummer for the novelty band The Clams, a Spike Jones tribute band who attempted to recreate the Slicker sound covering Carpenters hit recording (They Long to Be) Close to You. Then, some years later Carpenters covered the Clams recording on network TV, on their very first TV Special televised 12/8/76.
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newvillefan
I Know My First Name Is Stephen
Nemily
"I'm goin' way down south to Baton Rouge, tonight"
All, here is the complete list. I just needed to give it proper attention. I never really gave it that much thought before, so thanks Mark for helping me keep my geek on!
Steve Gadd tracks:
Still Crazy After All These Years
Last One Singin’ the Blues
My Body Keeps Changing My Mind
John JR Robinson tracks:
Lovelines
If We Try
Liberty Devitto tracks:
All Because of You
If I Had You
Making Love in the Afternoon
Remember When Lovin’ Took All Night
Still In Love with You
Make Believe It’s Your First Time
Guess I Just Lost My Head
Steve Gadd tracks:
Still Crazy After All These Years
Last One Singin’ the Blues
My Body Keeps Changing My Mind
John JR Robinson tracks:
Lovelines
If We Try
Liberty Devitto tracks:
All Because of You
If I Had You
Making Love in the Afternoon
Remember When Lovin’ Took All Night
Still In Love with You
Make Believe It’s Your First Time
Guess I Just Lost My Head
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Rick-An Ordinary Fool
Well-Known Member
And not a single drum lick from Karen…unfathomable.
newvillefan
I Know My First Name Is Stephen
And not a single drum lick from Karen…unfathomable.
Especially when this was her very own solo project. Fair enough there were a few uptempo tracks but there were also a few chances for Karen to shine, especially on the jazz-inflected tracks.
Vinylalbumcovers
Ah am so steel een luv weeth yoo
She was in no position health wise to record drums. It was all she could do to get to NY and do the vocals.
Ed
newvillefan
I Know My First Name Is Stephen
She manage it just fine only a few months later when she laid down the drum tracks for the ‘Music, Music, Music’ special 
Vinylalbumcovers
Ah am so steel een luv weeth yoo
She manage it just fine only a few months later when she laid down the drum tracks for the ‘Music, Music, Music’ special
I seem to recall she was struggling with energy and talking about how much effort vocal arrangements took in order to get her record done. Am I remembering incorrectly?
Ed
newvillefan
I Know My First Name Is Stephen
The part about the effort to create some of the vocal arrangements is true - she recounted that during a phone call to Richard.
I think the bigger point here is that Phil urged her to get away from everything “familiar.” He was well-aware, as was she, that having her play drums would have made her all too comfortable and open to getting pulled back into the same-ol’ stylistically.
Rick-An Ordinary Fool
Well-Known Member
While I understand that idea, she was still a musician, that’s like saying you can’t drum because it’s going to remind you of working with Carpenters. How do you separate a musician from one group to another?
I understand Phil saying he didn’t want to make another Carpenters album but at the same time she was still a drummer that was never going to change whether she was in CA or NY.
At the end of the day, she could have still chosen to drum on one of her solo tracks and still removed any references to Carpenters on her album. That what musicians do…they adjust and adapt to fit in to where they are and what they’re playing.
Yes, but there are few musicians who can literally play any style or genre with equal authenticity and passion. Karen knew that, and so did Phil. Remember, the whole angle here was this was to be a departure from the typical “formula.”
Aside from that, I think the point was to strip Karen down and get her to think with a “front and center” mentality. She was the focal point … the star. If she had insisted she play on any of the cuts, she would have likely then felt inclined to recreate that ‘live’ once the album dropped and was being promoted/concertized.
newvillefan
I Know My First Name Is Stephen
Very true!It was her project, why not? We can only dream
Rick-An Ordinary Fool
Well-Known Member
I can see it from both sides. I get where Phil was trying to go but from an outsider I don’t get why (if she wanted to) not play drums of a slower jazz track. It could have been kept low key and only credited in the liner notes.
I’m not saying have her playing drums on some of the tracks worthy of singles being released. Meaning she would not be drumming while promoting the album on any tv shows etc.
What would it have harmed to record say, All Because of You in the studio with Karen on drums? She could have gave the lyrics more interpretation while drumming. This could have only been credited in the liner notes and not duplicated outside of that recording. It would still be her solo project. The drumming would just be another contribution to it.
newvillefan
I Know My First Name Is Stephen
This is where I was coming from. How nice would it have been for Karen to see a drumming credit on her own album. She didn’t have to be pounding away on tracks like ‘Still In Love With You’, she could easily have handled others like ‘Guess I Just Lost My Head’.
Vinylalbumcovers
Ah am so steel een luv weeth yoo
It's also possible that she didn't want to. We don't know what was going through her head but maybe she just didn't want to do that. Besides, the drumming on her album is incredible. Karen was a very good drummer but she was a singular singer. She shined as a singer. That's what people most want(ed) from her.
Ed
Exactly.
JohnFB
She was born to belong to the lines of a song...
No, you're correct - after years of self-induced malnutrition her storehouse of available energy was probably very limited; and since she did do all of the singing (including backup harmony vocals) and almost all of the vocal arrangements (which in themselves had to sap a lot of her time and reserves of energy) there couldn't have been much left for a strenuous activity like drumming. She was running on fumes and more than likely actually and continually "pooped". It's somewhat hard to believe she was functioning at all in an upright position...
A good case can be made that she really didn't want to. She probably thought about it several times, but decided against pushing for it because (1) as above, she simply didn't have the spare energy; (2) from years of semi-neglect or inactivity on the drums she was "out of practice" and realized she would need time and more energy to get back to form, and be good enough to do any recording on the drums; (3) she had been away from drumming on recordings so often and for so long that she might have come gradually to the impression (perhaps sub- consciously) that this was the "natural state of things", especially in a world surrounded by world class musicians chomping at the bit to play behind this world class singer; (4) she had extremely high respect for the session players and didn't want to deprive them of the opportunity to back her up, or take away any money from their paychecks by taking their place; (5) the man in charge, Phil Ramone, discouraged her, wanting to keep her full attention focused on her vocals.
According to Lucy O'Brian in "Lead Sister..." (which has a much longer and more detailed account of the Solo Sessions) Karen was constantly holding drumsticks and drumming away habitually on various objects during the sessions, and even was spotted by Liberty Devitto one day sitting at a drum kit ( maybe his) spontaneously improvising, and he is quoted as thinking to himself "Okay, we know, you play really well, and you really miss them".
Without going into it too far, according to O'Brien's account there was a great deal of respect from the session players for Karen's skills as both a singer and a drummer. It seems that there was secret longings for a romantic relationship. After the sessions they even called her from the road will touring with Billy Joel to check on her and tease her a little in a playful way - apparently they missed her. A lot.
Proudofyou
Well-Known Member
I wish Phil Ramone would have then modeled her after Billy Joel. You obviously know it's his show. He plays piano, sings, entertains......she could have done the same with the drums.......but it just begs the question......where's Richard? So interesting.
byline
Well-Known Member
I also think we can't underestimate how few women were playing drums professionally at this time. And for someone with a voice like Karen's, I can see why she would be discouraged from focusing on drumming. All the external focus would have been on her singing. So maybe over time, she internalized that.
Now, with so many more female drummers playing professionally, I think Karen would have had an easier time balancing her singing with her drumming. Even back in the early '80s, the landscape was changing thanks to all-female bands like the Runaways and the Go-Gos, and drummers like Sheila E. I like to think that Karen's visibility as a female drummer helped to pave the way for their success.
Now, with so many more female drummers playing professionally, I think Karen would have had an easier time balancing her singing with her drumming. Even back in the early '80s, the landscape was changing thanks to all-female bands like the Runaways and the Go-Gos, and drummers like Sheila E. I like to think that Karen's visibility as a female drummer helped to pave the way for their success.
Geographer
Well-Known Member
And began the chain of awful decisions regarding her solo effort. My first thought was "this album is called 'Karen Carpenter' and she's NOT playing the drums?" It's as conceivable as having a solo album where she only drums and never sings.
Vinylalbumcovers
Ah am so steel een luv weeth yoo
Before Karen was anything, she was a singer - IMHO the best female Pop singer the world has ever known. Her voice has inspired many other female singers - both those of the past and even current singers. It is her voice that is remembered most fondly by many country miles. She was definitely a very good drummer. There are many very good drummers; there is only one Karen Carpenter voice. The session guys (Steve Gadd most definitely among them) are incredible drummers. They could more than cover anything her solo album needed. However, no one could sing the way she did. Absolutely no one. Phil was most interested in her voice. If Karen could only drum and not sing, I doubt we're even discussing her this many decades down the line. It is her voice that has transcended time, not her drumming.
Ed
