Styx's PARADISE THEATRE or THEATER

[Mike Blakesley]

I was just looking at a CD of Styx's PARADISE THEATRE album and noticed that on the front cover, the title is spelled THEATRE and the back cover has it -TER.

I wonder if that's ...

a) a typo
b) a graphic designer who can't make up his mind
c) a comparison of the old classic spelling in the glory days of the building (front cover) versus the modern media spelling in today's era (back cover)

Anybody else ever give any thought to this, or am I the only one? I own a classic movie theatre, thankyouverymuch.

 

[Rudy]

Mike--I thought this topic seemed familiar! But it wasn't here, it was at Steve Hoffman's forum:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=91477

And, our own Andrew T. started it.

I don't think anyone ever reached a conclusion.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

What I've always been told is "theatre" is a movie theatre, where "theater" is a stage theater. But that doesn't help it make sense on the album cover!

The other thing I've noticed over the years is, the media seems to prefer the "ter" spelling, while the movie industry prefers the "tre" spelling. Even the industry trade association is called the National Association of Theatre Owners. And, my theatre has been a "tre" building ever since 1930, so thus it will stay.

As for the Styx album - I always figure that if there's a title on the front of the cover, that's the official title. Kind of like Cheap Trick's IN COLOR album ... the backside of it says "and in Black & White" but that's not part of the title.

As I've been typing this post, Styx's "Mr. Roboto" started playing on the XM. I wonder if they've got eyes in that thing!

 

[Rudy]

What I've always been told is "theatre" is a movie theatre, where "theater" is a stage theater. But that doesn't help it make sense on the album cover!

True! I don't even think the cover artist realized it, from that post I read at Steve's forum. I don't know if anyone has any ties to DeYoung to find out if that is what he intended for the cover. As long as Herb Albert doesn't make a guest appearance on it...

As I've been typing this post, Styx's "Mr. Roboto" started playing on the XM. I wonder if they've got eyes in that thing!

I don't know about eyes, but this XM2Go (MyFi) I have comes with a 5 hour memory to record into, and it's been replaying a few favorite shows all day. I keep forgetting to grab the remote and turn it back on to the live broadcast. As I'm typing this, the TJB's "Mame" is playing, from Ken Smith's "The Strip" show on XM5. And it's followed by Sammy Davis Jr. singing "Gotta Lotta Livin' To Do", the lead-off to TJB's Sounds Like...

 

[toeknee4bz]

Well, as for the spelling and the cover: Every A&M album I know of has the front cover to the right of the spine. On PARADISE THEATER (and the spine itself, the 'this side' label, and just about every catalog listing I've ever seen reads "theater", not "theatre"), the brown cover is to the right of the spine. So if one were to be technical about it, one would have to say that the brown side is the 'front' side. Another possible explanation is that the story is being told AFTER the closing. But on my iPod, I have both sides pictured for each song,... Anyway, who cares? It's a great album, definitely the biggest hit album by Styx.

 

[Dave]

I just wonder how the group went from something like this to a two-, nearly three-year hiatus, before coming out w/ Kilroy Was Here, which resulted in the descent of material, offering only stuff like 'Mr. Roboto'...

Quite laughable, but clearly in the wake of better-artistry, the joke was worn pretty thin... Edge Of The Century was about the only sign of recovery & relief of a wake from such a commercial restrain...


-- Dave

 

[toeknee4bz]

From what I've read in many articles, Dennis DeYoung was allegedly on an ego trip after successfully crafting the band's first #1 single, "Babe" in 1979, and subsequently providing the concept for what would be their first #1 album, PARADISE THEATER, in 1980-81. According to various sources, not the least being the unauthorized bio, "The Grand Delusion" by Sterling Whitaker, as well as "Grand Illusion: Love, Lies and My Life with Styx" by Chuck Panozzo, the band was pretty much in full squabble mode at this point. This was presumably the catalyst for the 2 1/2 year gap between PARADISE THEATER and KILROY WAS HERE, yet one more conceptual album envisioned by DeYoung and coerced to the rest of the band. Ultimately, this would be the breaking point. As the Eagles experienced in the late 70s between HOTEL CALIFORNIA and THE LONG RUN, this was the 'long one' for Styx.

http://www.amazon.com/Grand-Delusion-Unauthorized-True-Story/dp/1419653539

http://www.amazon.com/Grand-Illusion-Love-Lies-Life/dp/0814409164

 

[Mike Blakesley]

I'm on our county fair board, where we're in the middle of booking entertainment for this year's fair. Styx is on the agent's list of available acts, for $75,000. No mention of exactly who is in the band these days. It's amazing how many bands you'd think were long gone are still available. (Village People - $40,000. Alabama - $500,000.)

 

[Harry]

I don't know who's in Styx, but Dennis De Young is coming to EPCOT on November 7-8.

http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/pa...nternational-food-and-wine-festival/concerts/

Dennis DeYoung, original member of STYX – NEW!

Dates: November 7 & 8, 2012
"Come Sail Away"
Dennis DeYoung is a founding member of the rock group Styx, with hits such as "Mr. Roboto" and "Babe." As a top-selling solo artist, he's recorded 7 albums, and written and performed many songs for TV, film and Broadway.

Harry

 

[Rudy]

DeYoung at EPCOT would be a neat concert.

As for Styx members, a Cliff Notes version of history would cure that.

Dennis DeYoung (keyboards, vocals) joins twin brothers Chuck (bass) and John (drums) Panozzo in their Chicago-area band. Local guitarists James Young and John Curulewski would join and eventually become Styx. Four albums on Wooden Nickel (with Styx II harboring the later hit single "Lady") and one for A&M (Equinox), upon which Curulewski would quit.

Tommy Shaw (guitars, vocals) joined for Crystal Ball and this "classic lineup" gelled with the following album The Grand Illusion. Peak success would be with the hit single "Babe" and some consider Paradise Theater to be the best album of this lineup. IIRC, secretly DeYoung was either fired or left the group at this point, but they regrouped to record Kilroy Was Here. Burdened with theatrical excess, a weak storyline and lukewarm response, a rift grew within the band between DeYoung and the others over his theatrics and pop-music leanings, and they went on hiatus.

Styx regrouped for Edge Of The Century without Shaw. DeYoung would rejoin for a tour in the mid 90s for the last time, before he was officially "fired" from the band. John Panozzo passed away from chronic alcoholism. Chuck Panozzo plays occasionally with the band, but retired due to HIV complications. That leaves only Tommy Shaw and James Young as the two members touring as "Styx" (IIRC, which they sued to gain rights to use the name).

Fans are divided. Some (like me) prefer the band's music with DeYoung and dislike how Shaw and Young still bash him regularly in the press; others are polarized and hate on DeYoung with a passion due to his pop-music and Broadway-themed albums, theatrics, etc. I'd still go see a live DeYoung/Young/Shaw "Styx" reunion concert, but I still cannot accept or pay money to see the band as a shell of its former self.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

I liked "Lady," but I didn't really become a Styx fan until the Crystal Ball album came out. The title song on that album was a favorite and I liked all of the succeeding albums to varying degrees, until Kilroy. I thought it was a weak record.

My favorites in descending order of greatness are Crystal Ball, The Grand Illusion, Paradise Theatre, and Equinox. After the group got "huge" their music started to suffer for me, since they kept trying for more hit singles and moved away from what drew me to them in the first place.

I remember seeing the "Paradise" concert in Billings. It was really cool....they had a scrim covering the stage with the graphics from the album on it. The band, behind the scrim, played the "Tonight's the night, we'll make history" opening of the album while a guy "swept the sidewalk" out front of the theatre....then on the line "...here at the Paaaar---a---DISE!" the scrim was quickly pulled away and the band was there playing "Rockin the Paradise." It was one of the better concert openings I ever saw.

 

[Rudy]

That concert was easier to handle than the Kilroy concert, as that included scripted parts that the band members acted out. Seeing it on video all these years later, it is hard to stomach. It just feels forced and awkward, yet when the band rips through their setlist, it's all good.

Agreed on Crystal Ball--it has grown on me in recent years. I can more appreciate's Shaw's input. If I had to rank them, it would change from day to day. And there are even times I find myself playing the Wooden Nickel albums (the 2-CD set is excellent as it covers all of their recordings)--it is interesting to note that James Young sings a lot more lead vocals on those albums, maybe split 50/50 with DeYoung, and Curulewski might get one per album. (Although I refuse to consider "Plexiglass Toilet" a pillar of good musical composition. )

I actually like Pieces Of Eight due to the memories--junior high school, my buddy cranking this album at his house when his parents would go out, and "Great White Hope" is one of their hardest rockers. I've always liked that one--great album opener.

 

[toeknee4bz]

My favorites in descending order of greatness are Crystal Ball, The Grand Illusion, Paradise Theatre, and Equinox. After the group got "huge" their music started to suffer for me, since they kept trying for more hit singles and moved away from what drew me to them in the first place.

I got into Styx as they went their separate ways in late 83/early 84. I immediately started collecting everything they'd released up to that point, and continued buying subsequent releases even after they left A&M. All the solo albums by DeYoung, Shaw, JY and even Glen Burtnick's two solo A&M efforts before he joined the band. But of all of these records, PARADISE THEATER is the most innovative, polished, (and at the same time) rocking album ever released with the Styx name.
Most everyone agrees that the platinum albums featuring the 'classic lineup' were by far the best of the lot. But unlike many diehard Styx fans, I was also able to enjoy KILROY, strictly from a musical perspective and ignoring the tacky screenplay. Granted, I don't exactly keep it hot on the speakers like I once did, but the same could be said about CORNERSTONE or EDGE OF THE CENTURY. These albums are undeniably more pop oriented, and as Mike said, "moved away from what drew [listeners] to them in the first place". But I like many different forms of music, and I am open to changes in style, as long as it's well executed.
But where I got off the boat is the 2003 album CYCLORAMA. I bought it even though I knew it was 'sans DeYoung', and gave it a chance... Unfortunately, the whole demeanor of the band had changed. It was far more reckless, obnoxious and just plain weird than anything that Styx had ever done, and that includes BRAVE NEW WORLD. It's as if they deliberately tried to reinvent their image just for the sake of rebellion and to spite Dennis (the album was released on DeYoung's birthday 2-18-2003). And these guys are in their 50s? Very disappointing. And from what I've sampled of their subsequent releases, ... crap.
As for shadow bands who are essentially tribute bands to their former images, a lot of groups like Chicago, REO Speedwagon, Journey, Little River Band, etc. have continued with understudy replacements, touring incessantly, milking that cash cow for as long as they can squeeze it, and despite all of the changes... their overall sound stayed pretty much the same. Not so with 21st century Styx. They seem to be 'stuck on stupid' just because they can. In my opinion, they would be smart to put away some of their personal grudges and try to revisit some of the type of creativity that they did with DeYoung, who, for better or worse... was a BIG factor in their commercial success beyond just the ballads. And PARADISE THEATER was the pinnacle.

 

[toeknee4bz]

Speaking of revisiting old type creativity... anybody heard Dennis DeYoung's 2007 release "One Hundred Years From Now"? If you didn't know better while listening to it, you'd swear it was a long lost Styx album pulled out of the vault from 1975!

 

[Rudy]

All the solo albums by DeYoung, Shaw, JY and even Glen Burtnick's two solo A&M efforts before he joined the band.

I've only indulged in a few: DeYoung's Desert Moon (which I liked a lot when it was released, but is somewhat an embarrassing listen now given a couple of the songs on there) and 10 On Broadway, and Tommy Shaw's Girls With Guns (which was produced by Mike Stone, who produced Journey's hit albums). Shaw's album was quite good--the title track really kicked things off. Notice too that there is still some Styx influence on that album--listen to those synths!

Most everyone agrees that the platinum albums featuring the 'classic lineup' were by far the best of the lot. But unlike many diehard Styx fans, I was also able to enjoy KILROY, strictly from a musical perspective and ignoring the tacky screenplay. Granted, I don't exactly keep it hot on the speakers like I once did, but the same could be said about CORNERSTONE or EDGE OF THE CENTURY.

I do actually like some of the Kilroy songs and I've never completely written that album off. The title track really made no sense as a single given its subject matter, yet "Don't Let It End" is a worthy power ballad, and "Double Life" is a favorite of mine. I don't know if I could sit through the whole thing anymore, though.
On a side note, I know someone who owns one of the Kilroy masks. He has it on his site http://styxcollector.com . If anyone has encyclopedic knowledge of Styx, he certainly does.

As for shadow bands who are essentially tribute bands to their former images, a lot of groups like Chicago, REO Speedwagon, Journey, Little River Band, etc. have continued with understudy replacements, touring incessantly, milking that cash cow for as long as they can squeeze it, and despite all of the changes... their overall sound stayed pretty much the same.

At least REO (Styx's touring companions in recent years) still has Kevin Cronin singing lead, so they've probably retained a lot of their original sound. Is Steve Augeri still singing lead for Journey? He isn't Steve Perry, but has a similar enough voice to pull it off well, from what I've heard. However...

Not so with 21st century Styx. They seem to be 'stuck on stupid' just because they can. In my opinion, they would be smart to put away some of their personal grudges and try to revisit some of the type of creativity that they did with DeYoung, who, for better or worse... was a BIG factor in their commercial success beyond just the ballads.

That attitude is part of why I won't see a modern Styx concert. They might have their differences but to a lot of us, Styx is just as much "Lorelei," "Come Sail Away" and "Lady" as much as it is "Too Much Time On My Hands" and "Renegade." My wish that they'd all grow up and get over it will likely never play out. I know DeYoung has stated recently in an interview that he would not mind the opportunity to do it again, but you can read in other interviews how JY and Shaw have it out for him and it appears to be something not even remotely negotiable. A shame really. If they could avoid the theatrics and just put on a good show centered on the music, it would be well worth seeing. Other bands in a similar situation just got back together on a whim ("let's try it"), and found their old differences to be quite petty in the grand scheme of things. Makes no sense to harbor lifelong grudges.

 

[toeknee4bz]

I've only indulged in a few: DeYoung's Desert Moon (which I liked a lot when it was released, but is somewhat an embarrassing listen now given a couple of the songs on there) and 10 On Broadway, ...
... Is Steve Augeri still singing lead for Journey? He isn't Steve Perry, but has a similar enough voice to pull it off well, from what I've heard. However...

Actually, the current lead singer for Journey is a young Filipino (for years I thought it was spelled Philipino! Anyway...) guy named Arnel Pineda. If you thought Steve Augeri sounded like Perry, you'll be blown away at Arnel Pineda!

As for DESERT MOON, I completely agree. If I were to play that album now, I'd play the title track, "Suspicious" and "Gravity" and call it a day. I thought that his follow up albums, BACK TO THE WORLD and BOOMCHILD were much better efforts. And 10 ON BROADWAY was an album all it's own in it's excellence.

 

[toeknee4bz]

I do actually like some of the Kilroy songs and I've never completely written that album off. The title track really made no sense as a single given its subject matter, yet "Don't Let It End" is a worthy power ballad, and "Double Life" is a favorite of mine. I don't know if I could sit through the whole thing anymore, though.

"Just Get Through This Night" is another great gem on KILROY.

 

[toeknee4bz]

I don't know who's in Styx, but Dennis De Young is coming to EPCOT on November 7-8.

http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/pa...nternational-food-and-wine-festival/concerts/

Harry

Last I heard it was Tommy, JY, Gowan, Todd Suchermann on drums, Ricky Phillips on bass

 

[Mr Bill]

Reminds me of one of my favorite stories/jokes from the 80s:

One time Styx, Journey, REO Speedwagon and Foreigner all passed through the same airport terminal heading in different directions. As they passed each other, the bass players accidentally ended up following the wrong band. It was three weeks into thier respective tours that the bands realized they had the wrong bass players!

Of course, I know this means a resurrection of Capt B's old "music/musician jokes" thread is imminent!

 

[Rudy]

Actually, the current lead singer for Journey is a young Filipino (for years I thought it was spelled Philipino! Anyway...) guy named Arnel Pineda. If you thought Steve Augeri sounded like Perry, you'll be blown away at Arnel Pineda!

You're right--there was something nagging at me saying that Augeri wasn't with Journey anymore! Now I remember about Pineda.

As for DESERT MOON, I completely agree. If I were to play that album now, I'd play the title track, "Suspicious" and "Gravity" and call it a day. I thought that his follow up albums, BACK TO THE WORLD and BOOMCHILD were much better efforts. And 10 ON BROADWAY was an album all it's own in it's excellence.

I'd like to see one of his recent concerts--I've heard he does some of the classics backed by a full orchestra. If done right, it can sound fantastic.
Funny, but while I'm not a huge Metallica fan (just an average middle-aged one, actually ), one of my favorites of theirs is the S&M album...especially on video. It's the one with Metallica in front of a full symphony, and it helps that the conductor was sympathetic to the music (yeah I know...sympathetic to metal ) and the resulting work was really quite heavy in its own right. I've even had a couple of friends who were not fond of Metallica enjoy that one.
Off to neva neva land...

 

[Dave]

I was just looking at a CD of Styx's PARADISE THEATRE album and noticed that on the front cover, the title is spelled THEATRE and the back cover has it -TER.

I wonder if that's...

a) a typo
b) a graphic designer who can't make up his mind
c) a comparison of the old classic spelling in the glory days of the building (front cover) versus the modern media spelling in today's era (back cover)

I would guess "C"...


-- Dave

I still cannot accept or pay money to see the band as a shell of its former self.

Of which a group like Boston can't even offer... Years ago Brad Delp committed suicide, so there's very little chance of replacing him, unless anyone can fill his spot, much like how Paul Rogers of Free joined Queen to replace Freddie Mercury, but who really can replace "The Delp Yelp"????

"I'll take "Ghost Bands" again for $400, Alex..."


-- Dave

 

[Rudy]

To me, that was like when Genesis convinced Ray Wilson (of Stilskin) to take over vocals after Phil Collins left. It didn't quite work. He was OK on some of the new songs, but I couldn't imagine him singing anything Collins or Gabriel had originally sung.

 

[toeknee4bz]

Here you go, Rudy... from '02 on PBS Soundstage:

 

[Dave]

Don't forget the "super group" Tommy Shaw formed w/ Ted Nugent, The Damn Yankees... Which also included Michael Cartellone, currently w/ Lynyrd Skynyrd, and from Night Ranger, Jack Blades...


-- Dave

 

[toeknee4bz]

Don't forget the "super group" Tommy Shaw formed w/ Ted Nugent, The Damn Yankees... Which also included Michael Cartellone, currently w/ Lynyrd Skynyrd, and from Night Ranger, Jack Blades...
-- Dave

Yeah... Damn Yankees. That was a dangerous group! I made the mistake of buying a concert video of theirs... I was thinking "uh, yeeeahhhhh... Tommy Shaw may be on stage here, but this is NOTHING like Styx!" They did, however, have a few standout tracks between the two albums released (e.g. "High Enough", "Coming Of Age", "Mister Please", "The Silence Is Broken")... I just don't find myself playing them that much now that I'm 20+ years older. I don't think they ever meant for it to be a long term gig. Just a side project which was never going to stand the test of time like Styx has.