Styx's PARADISE THEATRE or THEATER

[Rudy]

My wish that they'd all grow up and get over it will likely never play out. I know DeYoung has stated recently in an interview that he would not mind the opportunity to do it again, but you can read in other interviews how JY and Shaw have it out for him and it appears to be something not even remotely negotiable.

Looking at this thread all these years later for some inspiration on an upcoming project, I just recently saw a couple of interviews. Tommy and especially JY still carry that grudge to this day! As for DeYoung? He says his bags are packed and he's ready to hit the road with them, if he'd only get the call; he says he'd like to go out one more time on a tour as a thank-you for the fans who supported the group for all these years, and then he'd let them go on.

With so many other bands having reconciled years or decades after a breakup, the fact that Tommy and particularly JY are still harboring that hatred just makes them look childish and petty. I don't know how Chuck's health is holding out, but even a limited number of gigs with the four remaining members would be something to witness.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

I have a friend, Keith, who is a magician/comedian. He got to open the show for Styx a few years ago in a town near here called Baker. Keith is one of those likable types that can get along with just about anyone. He got to meet Tommy Shaw, who has long been one of his idols, and said he was pretty much a dickhead. He also got to make Tommy's daughter disappear in one of his illusions, and she was kind of stuck up too. Maybe they're just bitter all the time.

 

[AM Matt]

"Theatre" is what they call it in Canada. "Theater" is what they called it in the United States.

 

[Rudy]

I have a friend, Keith, who is a magician/comedian. He got to open the show for Styx a few years ago in a town near here called Baker. Keith is one of those likable types that can get along with just about anyone. He got to meet Tommy Shaw, who has long been one of his idols, and said he was pretty much a dickhead. He also got to make Tommy's daughter disappear in one of his illusions, and she was kind of stuck up too. Maybe they're just bitter all the time.

It could be. Too bad he couldn't make Shaw and JY disappear.

 

[jfiedler17]

Looking at this thread all these years later for some inspiration on an upcoming project, I just recently saw a couple of interviews. Tommy and especially JY still carry that grudge to this day! As for DeYoung? He says his bags are packed and he's ready to hit the road with them, if he'd only get the call; he says he'd like to go out one more time on a tour as a thank-you for the fans who supported the group for all these years, and then he'd let them go on.

With so many other bands having reconciled years or decades after a breakup, the fact that Tommy and particularly JY are still harboring that hatred just makes them look childish and petty. I don't know how Chuck's health is holding out, but even a limited number of gigs with the four remaining members would be something to witness.

Yeah, I don't know how Shaw and JY can still harbor a grudge after all these years working wholly apart from Dennis. You'd think all that time apart might have at least softened them slightly, if not made them nostalgic enough to be open to a one-off reunion show, especially for the sake of the fans. (In contrast, there's clearly little, if any, resentment on Dennis' end. Every interview I read or see with him, he's had nothing but nice things to say about Shaw's contributions to the group during their time together.)
At one point, I believe the band scrubbed DeYoung's name from their website altogether, though not without a great deal of flak for having done so. Today, DeYoung's name shows up exactly once on their site - a passing mention on the band's bio page that the band apparently couldn't even bring itself to include without including a quote from JY that takes a jab at him at the end.
It's especially distasteful that they would downplay his role in the history of the band when you consider that Shaw didn't join until 1976 and that even JY was technically the last of the original five Styx members to join (Dennis and the two Panozzos having played together as The Trade Winds - then TW4 - for eight or nine years at that point, and Curulewski having joined towards the end of the '60s to replace Tom Nardini), so Styx arguably likely would have never existed in the first place without Dennis.
But it also seems to me that Shaw and JY may possibly be resisting such a reunion in part because they seem to place so much emphasis - a little too much, if you ask me - on their "rock cred" and are worried that agreeing to a one-off reunion with Dennis would just make them look less than hip. Now, mind you, this isn't a band that - in its post-DeYoung incarnation, anyway - has designed its set lists in a way that makes sure they're including all the hits (of the band's eighteen Top 40 hits, they leave out nine of them in any given show, these days, including four Top Ten smashes). But it says a lot about what Shaw's and JY's true concerns are that they've pretty much cast aside every hit ballad they ever had from their live repertoire, with the exception of "Lady" (and maybe "Come Sail Away," though I've always been hard-pressed to really call that one a ballad per se.) No "Show Me the Way." No "Don't Let It End." Even "The Best of Times" and "Babe" haven't been in their set list in decades. (According to setlist.fm, the last time they played either song in concert was '07, and neither's been performed with any regularity since the '90s.) And "Babe," I should point out, is the only actual Number One hit the band ever had. To go entire decades without playing your only Number One hit in concert, even if you're not all that fond of it as a band? I find that a bit inconsiderate, personally. It's far from being my favorite Styx song, but I'd still want and expect to hear it if I shelled out money to see them. I mean ... it's your biggest hit, for crying out loud. [As a musician myself, I can tell you that my most popular song with fans is not anywhere close to being my favorite song of mine - I wouldn't even rank it in my top twenty - but I wouldn't dream for a second of denying audiences the joy of hearing it, no matter how much I may not particularly want to play it.]

I'm not hopeful that Shaw and JY will ever warm up to a reunion gig, even just a one-off affair, but I would absolutely want to see that. Heck, invite Burtnik along as a guest to join in on any Edge tunes that get included. (He's still supposedly on good terms with all parties, having both played with the post-DeYoung incarnation of the group for several years as a fill-in for Chuck and also having played quite a few duo shows with DeYoung over the years as well.) Maybe work in a few extracurricular hits, like "Desert Moon" or "Girls with Guns," if just for the fun of hearing the guys play them together for the first time. (I get the feeling DeYoung would have an absolute ball playing the latter, especially considering the great recurring synth lick on that one.) You could really put one hell of a set list together for such a show if you're open to trying anything.

 

[Rudy]

It's especially distasteful that they would downplay his role in the history of the band when you consider that Shaw didn't join until 1976 and that even JY was technically the last of the original five Styx members to join (Dennis and the two Panozzos having played together as The Trade Winds - then TW4 - for eight or nine years at that point, and Curulewski having joined towards the end of the '60s to replace Tom Nardini), so Styx arguably likely would have never existed in the first place without Dennis.

That's one of my beefs. JY just barely squeaks in as a "founding" member of the group known as Styx, but the groundwork was laid much further back.

But it also seems to me that Shaw and JY may possibly be resisting such a reunion in part because they seem to place so much emphasis - a little too much, if you ask me - on their "rock cred" and are worried that agreeing to a one-off reunion with Dennis would just make them look less than hip.

What really gets me is that this whole rift between them came about because DeYoung was diagnosed with Epstein-Barr and wanted a mere six months to recover and adapt before going back out on the road. There were fractured relations prior to that, such as when Tommy (!) threatened to quit...and ironically the one to discourage the rest of the band from getting rid of him was Dennis! There was also the break between Paradise and Kilroy. But you'd think they could at least have the decency to wait (regardless of promotional or label pressure) and let him deal with the illness. I almost get the feeling they were waiting to get revenge for having to endure Kilroy, and this was the perfect opportunity to kick Dennis out of his own band.

I'm not hopeful that Shaw and JY will ever warm up to a reunion gig, even just a one-off affair, but I would absolutely want to see that. Heck, invite Burtnik along as a guest to join in on any Edge tunes that get included. (He's still supposedly on good terms with all parties, having both played with the post-DeYoung incarnation of the group for several years as a fill-in for Chuck and also having played quite a few duo shows with DeYoung over the years as well.)

I would hope Chuck would be well enough to appear with that dream reunion--I guess he still sits in on occasional shows when he can, but I think he's put the life of a full-time road musician behind him. So I'd almost think Burtnik has a perfect place in the band if he can play bass in Chuck's place.

I don't think Styx is liked enough to be inducted into the R&R Hall of Fame. But you know that Tommy and JY would specifically make it a point to ensure Dennis is nowhere near the band if they ever get inducted. Jann Wenner claims their name never came up by the nominating committee, but who can trust Wenner anyway?

(In contrast, there's clearly little, if any, resentment on Dennis' end. Every interview I read or see with him, he's had nothing but nice things to say about Shaw's contributions to the group during their time together.)

The only thing slightly dodgy about Dennis is how he refers to Lawrence Gowan, as he is the one who has taken the place of Dennis and I assume the one who is also singing any of few the Dennis songs they still play. Dennis doesn't comment on how well (or how poorly?) Gowan does, but only says something to the effect of Larry Gowan being the best Larry Gowan in the world. (Or another way of saying Gowan is not being a DeYoung...and apparently doesn't play one onstage.) I've heard him say this in a few recent interviews. I do kind of agree, though--Gowan is certainly talented, but it's unrealistic to think he'd ever have a shot at being DeYoung.

 

[jfiedler17]

That's one of my beefs. JY just barely squeaks in as a "founding" member of the group known as Styx, but the groundwork was laid much further back.

Yeah, I feel like the band is a bit deceptive these days (whether in their website bio or in print or TV interviews) about its origins. They do acknowledge that Chuck and brother John were there right from the get-go, but they dramatically downplay Dennis' role in starting the band and make it sound as if JY was always there.

What really gets me is that this whole rift between them came about because DeYoung was diagnosed with Epstein-Barr and wanted a mere six months to recover and adapt before going back out on the road. There were fractured relations prior to that, such as when Tommy (!) threatened to quit...and ironically the one to discourage the rest of the band from getting rid of him was Dennis! There was also the break between Paradise and Kilroy. But you'd think they could at least have the decency to wait (regardless of promotional or label pressure) and let him deal with the illness. I almost get the feeling they were waiting to get revenge for having to endure Kilroy, and this was the perfect opportunity to kick Dennis out of his own band.

I can understand their impatience to an extent, but I agree that a six-month rest was not really asking especially much. Now, it's true that Styx was clearly past its commercial prime at that point (even if A&M hadn't cut them loose, I wonder if the cancelled follow-up to Edge really would have done much commercially, given that grunge had arisen by then and knocked most classic rockers off the charts), and the band was more financially dependent than ever by the late '90s and early '00s on touring. [It's also telling - and a bit embarrassing - that the band, in its post-DeYoung incarnation, has put out twice as many live albums - most of them revisiting the same songs - as they have studio recordings.] But I don't think a six-month hiatus was really asking too much (especially since Shaw also already had a Damn Yankees reunion album in the works to fall back on and stay busy with, though that ultimately got cancelled as well.) I think the number of fans they ultimately lost by moving on without Dennis wasn't worth the trade-off of getting back out on the road that soon, though I don't know what kind of financial shape the members were in at that time. But they also apparently, from all accounts, fought like crazy during the making of Brave New World due to musical differences (mainly, Dennis' leanings towards pop and theatrical rock versus Shaw's and JY's desire to just be pure rockers), so that also may have played into the decision to just let Dennis go as opposed to waiting.

I don't think Styx is liked enough to be inducted into the R&R Hall of Fame. But you know that Tommy and JY would specifically make it a point to ensure Dennis is nowhere near the band if they ever get inducted. Jann Wenner claims their name never came up by the nominating committee, but who can trust Wenner anyway?

They should be in there, in theory, considering the enormity of their statistical achievements. It's rather ridiculous that they're not. But the Hall has traditionally shunned a lot of heavyweights from the classic-rock era, especially anyone with any kind of roots in prog, which applies to Styx. Just look at how long it took for Yes to get in there. Whereas, say, the Sex Pistols (who I do admittedly like but would have not rushed so quickly to induct them) got in more than ten years earlier, in spite of just having put out a single album (and one that didn't actually chart all that high in the U.S., either) in their brief existence. I agree with you, though, that in the unlikely event Styx got inducted, Tommy and JY would keep Dennis away somehow - or at least exclude him from their performance, like Blondie notoriously did with Nigel Harrison and Frank Infante even after a last-minute plea during the onstage ceremony.

 

[Rudy]

Whereas, say, the Sex Pistols (who I do admittedly like but would have not rushed so quickly to induct them) got in more than ten years earlier, in spite of just having put out a single album (and one that didn't actually chart all that high in the U.S., either) in their brief existence.

So much of the R&RHOF has to do with what the critics like. They have always hated arena rock (which Styx evolved into once they left their prog roots behind...and thankfully the plexiglass toilet ended up in the dumpsters of time). They're quick to nominate favorites over bands which have decades-long legacies.

I visited the R&RHOF once in my life and that was plenty.

I agree with you, though, that in the unlikely event Styx got inducted, Tommy and JY would keep Dennis away somehow - or at least exclude him from their performance, like Blondie notoriously did with Nigel Harrison and Frank Infante even after a last-minute plea during the onstage ceremony.

Some quarreling bands are able to get together, or even if they weren't quarreling, they had gone separate ways and onto new projects. After hearing about nearly the full "Shining Star" era of Earth Wind & Fire reconvening during the induction ceremony makes me wish I'd had a way to watch it. Or in the case of Genesis, four of the group members (Banks, Collins, Hackett, Rutherford), plus touring members Daryl Stuermer and Chester Thompson, attended, but the band Phish played instead. And they did a more than passable job of "Watcher of the Skies."

The most diplomatic thing would be to have another band play a couple of Styx songs. But I feel JY and Tommy would shun Dennis and perform, just to make their point (for the millionth time).

I can understand their impatience to an extent, but I agree that a six-month rest was not really asking especially much.

For sure. That was a six month ask...and yet here we are decades later and what's left of the band is still together.

I think the number of fans they ultimately lost by moving on without Dennis wasn't worth the trade-off of getting back out on the road that soon, though I don't know what kind of financial shape the members were in at that time.

One show I would attend is one of Dennis's shows, as he still performs his songs from back in the Styx days. And based on I've seen in videos, his renditions sound a lot more like classic Styx than what the band is doing today.

To be completely fair, the 2017 album The Mission isn't a bad album, as it's a throwback to the late 70s era of Styx. It's different to make new music with a group of musicians calling themselves Styx, than it is to shun doing any kind of reunion and reconnecting with a vital founder of the group. The album does steal a few ideas from early Styx, but it was nice to hear something fresh after 14 years that actually now sounds like a Styx album.