Thoughts on Richard's voice?

[Vinylalbumcovers]

I think Richard has very average talent when it comes to singing. But let's face it. People don't purchase music so that they can hear average singing. Karen had one of the best voices the music world had known and people are willing to shell out money to hear a voice of that quality.

Some say that Karen could sing the phone book and make it sound good. But with Richard, even if the song was very good and the arrangement was very good, his voice would still be adequate but not good.

I know this might sound insane, but my favorite vocal by Richard is him singing "Get Together" on Offering/Ticket To Ride, even though I prefer the version where Karen is singing that same song.

Richard's vocal is dripping in tremolo on "Get it Together". I don't think you're insane but it's not my thing at all. It makes no sense for the song. It was just done to cloak Richard's vocal blandness. Karen's vocal is many light years better and that's the one they should have gone with IMHO. My old tired trope is that Richard had zero business singing any lead vocals when he had Karen at his disposal.

Ed

 

[Jack A.]

It was just done to cloak Richard's vocal blandness.

That's probably why his voice isn't considered "commercial" enough. It's too bland to be the kind of voice that would carry the lead on a number-one hit.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

My old tired trope is that Richard had zero business singing any lead vocals when he had Karen at his disposal.

I suppose it was some odd combination of Karen not thinking of herself as a singer, but as a drummer and therefore, Richard thought they should split the leads (and they even did that, albeit to a decreasing degree, on the four subsequent albums).

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

That's probably why his voice isn't considered "commercial" enough. It's too bland to be the kind of voice that would carry the lead on a number-one hit.

He got nowhere with his solo record. Even when he released his solo record, he quite rightly didn't rely on his voice for the singles. Singing simply isn't Richard's thing.

Ed

 

[Randy M]

Rod Stewart
Bob Dylan

We could continue down that route with
Joe Cocker
John Hiatt
Willy DeVille
All on my playlist along with 1970's Cat Stevens & Bryan Ferry.

Willy DeVille owns Bryan Ferry's Slave To Love (a song I love to hate.)

 

[Faithful Fan]

I wish I could hit the notes in the higher range Richard was able to hit. And I appreciate the Perry Como-like style he often slid into...

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

I wish I could hit the notes in the higher range Richard was able to hit...

Honestly, so does he. That's why he's double tracked on everything he sings. It makes his voice sound stronger and more convincing in an upper range he doesn't really possess. His voice is almost never naked. On "Piano Picker," it's only naked on the brief first verse. After that, it's doubled. I can't think of a track where it's not doubled to cloak its total lack of power and command. He knows his limitations and he learned quickly to cloak them so he could at times sound presentable.

Ed

 

[Faithful Fan]

Got it. Makes sense.

 

[byline]

Richard's vocal is dripping in tremolo on "Get it Together". I don't think you're insane but it's not my thing at all. It makes no sense for the song. It was just done to cloak Richard's vocal blandness. Karen's vocal is many light years better and that's the one they should have gone with IMHO. My old tired trope is that Richard had zero business singing any lead vocals when he had Karen at his disposal.

Ed

So true. And, when Karen comes in on harmony, I always feel like, "Ah, there's the voice we've been waiting for." She had that magic, even singing backup for Richard.

Having said that, Richard had an uncanny ear for picking songs for Karen, and also arranging and singing those stacked harmonies with her. I can't separate that from the Carpenters' unique vocal sound, any more than I can separate Karen's voice from it. For me, this "total package" of Karen's and Richard's strengths, blended together, will always be the Carpenters' sound.

 

[newvillefan]

And, when Karen comes in on harmony, I always feel like, "Ah, there's the voice we've been waiting for." She had that magic, even singing backup for Richard.

I liked your comment for this bit ^^^. Reminds me of every time I listen to ‘Do You Hear What I Hear?’. The difference in vocal quality is astonishing, whether lead or back-up.

 

[Mark-T]

I liked your comment for this bit ^^^. Reminds me of every time I listen to ‘Do You Hear What I Hear?’. The difference in vocal quality is astonishing, whether lead or back-up.

One of the best examples of the "WOW!" factor.

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

So true. And, when Karen comes in on harmony, I always feel like, "Ah, there's the voice we've been waiting for." She had that magic, even singing backup for Richard.

Having said that, Richard had an uncanny ear for picking songs for Karen, and also arranging and singing those stacked harmonies with her. I can't separate that from the Carpenters' unique vocal sound, any more than I can separate Karen's voice from it. For me, this "total package" of Karen's and Richard's strengths, blended together, will always be the Carpenters' sound.

He did for a while. As time passed, he became less successful in picking songs that hit. As for singing harmonies with her, he never didn't nail there. They sounded incredible together. Richard's vocal arrangements have saved many bad Carpenters songs. Even on something like "Want You Back in My Life Again" which is just a rancid tune, Richard's vocal arrangements make parts of it interesting. Heck, even Karen's robo-vocal that @JohnFB truly hates (I don't like it either) generated by a disinterested Karen flops badly but Richard still shows up with the ear candy that nearly makes the whole thing work.

Ed

 

[JohnFB]

There's a video posted to YT by Carpenters Collector that has her lip-synching to this on some TV show - imagine the blatant lack of self-awareness or pride of actually lip-synching to this mechanical, singing-in-a -tunnel sound and expecting anyone to believe she was doing it live right there and then - why was this remarkable woman ever faking singing to a recording with her unearthly talent?

Ed is right - I do detest this - and I would have told her so if I had been there...and besides, she looks pretty well decimated physically here - all of this in combination was so senseless and tragic...

 

[newvillefan]

There's a video posted to YT by Carpenters Collector that has her lip-synching to this on some TV show

There are two occasions where she performed/mimed the song - once in Brazil during their promotional tour for Made In America and the second on The Merv Griffin Show. The latter was recorded September 1, 1981 and broadcast October 2, 1981 (not November as the video description states).

 

[byline]

There's a video posted to YT by Carpenters Collector that has her lip-synching to this on some TV show - imagine the blatant lack of self-awareness or pride of actually lip-synching to this mechanical, singing-in-a -tunnel sound and expecting anyone to believe she was doing it live right there and then - why was this remarkable woman ever faking singing to a recording with her unearthly talent?

Ed is right - I do detest this - and I would have told her so if I had been there...and besides, she looks pretty well decimated physically here - all of this in combination was so senseless and tragic...

I think your last sentence explains why she was lip syncing so much at this point. I'm guessing she didn't have the physical stamina to sing during a performance. I remember watching a video of her singing live, I think it was on a European TV show, when her hair was permed. She sounded breathless ... and I'm not surprised, given her physical state. So it may have been all she could do to go onstage and limit herself to going through the motions of singing.

"(Want You) Back in My Life Again" impressed me about as much as the rest of the Made in America album did. In my opinion, it didn't play to their strengths. I understand what Richard was trying to do by creating an upbeat sound more in keeping with what was on the radio at that time. But it didn't really showcase Karen's voice in the way that I love. Besides the Christmas albums, there are two Carpenters studio albums I don't have on CD: A Kind of Hush and this one.

 

[newvillefan]

"(Want You) Back in My Life Again" impressed me about as much as the rest of the Made in America album did. In my opinion, it didn't play to their strengths. I understand what Richard was trying to do by creating an upbeat sound more in keeping with what was on the radio at that time. But it didn't really showcase Karen's voice in the way that I love.

This is an interesting comment, because on their appearance on GMA in late 1981, Richard proudly stated that some music is trendy and will come and go, whereas the kind of music they did would always stay as it was. And here he was in 1980/1981, messing around with synthesiser programming (or Daryl Dragon was) trying to be ‘hip’. Ironic really.

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

I think your last sentence explains why she was lip syncing so much at this point. I'm guessing she didn't have the physical stamina to sing during a performance. I remember watching a video of her singing live, I think it was on a European TV show, when her hair was permed. She sounded breathless ... and I'm not surprised, given her physical state. So it may have been all she could do to go onstage and limit herself to going through the motions of singing.

"(Want You) Back in My Life Again" impressed me about as much as the rest of the Made in America album did. In my opinion, it didn't play to their strengths. I understand what Richard was trying to do by creating an upbeat sound more in keeping with what was on the radio at that time. But it didn't really showcase Karen's voice in the way that I love. Besides the Christmas albums, there are two Carpenters studio albums I don't have on CD: A Kind of Hush and this one.

MIA is definitely the one I don't really bother with. I have it but I never listen to it. It was such a wasted opportunity. They just sound so old and out of touch on it - as if they hadn't bothered to turn on a radio in a few years. Karen should always have been the star and here, she wasn't; Richard was. He didn't sing but he was hard to ignore on this album...so I largely ignore the album.

Ed

 

[Brendon McMahon]

This is an interesting comment, because on their appearance on GMA in late 1981, Richard proudly stated that some music is trendy and will come and go, whereas the kind of music they did would always stay as it was. And here he was in 1980/1981, messing around with synthesiser programming (or Daryl Dragon was) trying to be ‘hip’. Ironic really

I think your last sentence explains why she was lip syncing so much at this point. I'm guessing she didn't have the physical stamina to sing during a performance. I remember watching a video of her singing live, I think it was on a European TV show, when her hair was permed. She sounded breathless ... and I'm not surprised, given her physical state. So it may have been all she could do to go onstage and limit herself to going through the motions of singing.

"(Want You) Back in My Life Again" impressed me about as much as the rest of the Made in America album did. In my opinion, it didn't play to their strengths. I understand what Richard was trying to do by creating an upbeat sound more in keeping with what was on the radio at that time. But it didn't really showcase Karen's voice in the way that I love. Besides the Christmas albums, there are two Carpenters studio albums I don't have on CD: A Kind of Hush and this one.

I believe there is a live performance somewhere of Touch Me When We're Dancing in the Netherlands, in 1981, where Karen is visibly struggling...it is painful to watch.

 

[JohnFB]

I just watched that video last night, or I should say, part of that video - couldn't take the whole depressing experience - don't know which was worse: her pathetic skeletal appearance or the fraudulance of lip-synching to multiple layers of her own voice...

 

[Mark-T]

What a depressing thread this turned into.

 

[newvillefan]

There are in fact three occasions on the European promo tour where studio and TV audiences got to hear Karen singing live - twice singing ‘Touch Me When We’re Dancing’ in the Netherlands and France and another singing ‘Top Of The World’, again in France on the Julio Iglesias show ‘Numéro Un’.

 

[Mark-T]

^^ For the second one,. the link, to the show is here.

 

[STEVE@ENGLAND]

I just watched that video last night, or I should say, part of that video - couldn't take the whole depressing experience - don't know which was worse: her pathetic skeletal appearance or the fraudulance of lip-synching to multiple layers of her own voice...

I've tried several times to watch that video (the one when Karen's dressed in green) ...
but I've only lasted about 30 seconds ... It's just too painful to watch.
Before my most recent attempt, I made the fatal error of watching the Amsterdam
1974 concert (on You Tube.) And to see such a vivacious young woman then
deteriorate so badly (within 7 years!!!) ... well, like I said, it's just too painful to watch.

 

[STEVE@ENGLAND]

He did for a while. As time passed, he became less successful in picking songs that hit. As for singing harmonies with her, he never didn't nail there. They sounded incredible together. Richard's vocal arrangements have saved many bad Carpenters songs. Even on something like "Want You Back in My Life Again" which is just a rancid tune, Richard's vocal arrangements make parts of it interesting. Heck, even Karen's robo-vocal that @JohnFB truly hates (I don't like it either) generated by a disinterested Karen flops badly but Richard still shows up with the ear candy that nearly makes the whole thing work.

Ed

Agree with you completely re: Want you Back in my Life Again.
Weak vocals (I never thought I'd say that)... and the attempt to sound 'modern' is,
frankly, pathetic.

 

[newvillefan]

To this day, I don’t know what possessed them to trek around Europe in late 1981 on such a punishing schedule, when the chart placings for their singles were non-existent and had been in most European countries since 1978. The chart positions for Made In America were also abysmal in the US, Canada and Japan. The only place it did do moderately well was the UK, and that was back in June. By the time they arrived in the UK in October, their singles were charting outside the top 60 across the board and the most they could rustle up was an interview on a Saturday morning kids show, a few radio interviews, a record signing and a disastrous interview with Sue Lawley. Not one performance on UK TV. They were five months too late arriving in Europe and it was a pointless, futile exercise from the start.