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TJB Update!

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musbyte said:
Remastered is a very poorly applied word in the record industry nowadays; I for one have rushed to place an order for "remastered" CD's only to receive a disc which sounds just a little louder than my older one, nothing more.

In my own opinion? Remastered is just turning into a marketing ploy at the hands of the major record labels. The word itself gets people out buying the discs. And from an engineering standpoint, many remastered discs are just "dumbed down" versions of better sounding CD issues. Dumbed down? Sure. Add a ton compression to the sound, boost that bass and treble...oh, and kill that nasty barely-audible tape hiss while you're at it. This will make it all sound great, and nice and loud, on boom boxes, iPods and $20 Delco radios. The Target and Best Buy customer thanks you, Mr. Record Label Engineer. :rolleyes: While in the meantime, those of us who care about the sound are buying something that sounds overly processed. It's like the old radio volume wars all over again, except the victim this time is the CD, and the unlucky customers who buy them.

Don't get me wrong, though: there are still a lot of good sounding remasters out there, but it is all highly dependent on which engineer does them, at which label. The label matters because some of them are the ones who demand that the engineers "smash" the sound. The two most recent Beatles releases are horrible--"1" (the compilation) is known to be quite "smashed", and "Let It Be--Naked" suffers from noise reduction as well. That's why I like the idea of Herb Alpert going independent on his remastering projects: they can get us something that sounds as close to the masters as we can get in our homes with current technology.

And that's all the more reason I'd prefer hybrid SACDs for these releases--they'll play on all CD players, and yet give those of us with better equipment the ability to hear the music in a purer sense. If this is going to be a once-in-a-lifetime project, why not preserve all the hard work in a better format? :wink: Abkco has done a great job with the Stones reissues, being "silent hybrids", and they don't charge any extra for it. (I'd heard that they never bothered to remaster the London catalog up until SACD came along, since they felt they really couldn't better what was out there.)

I'm not as sold on remixes. If they just try to recreate the original balances, then a remix isn't that big of a deal; at best, you're only getting rid of one generation of tape. (And this may be the case with the A&M two-track masters.) But when you get someone who has to change things around, it turns into revisionism, a la George Lucas (or even Richard Carpenter, for that matter).

I can think of one example that sits on the fence: the Led Zeppelin 4-CD box set. Jimmy Page helped remix the entire Led Zep catalog, and while I don't really notice a difference, some who are very familiar with the recordings say the guitar is slightly more forward in the mix. Does it bother me, knowing these aren't the original mixes? Not really! I don't even really notice a difference on most songs. Does it sound better? Sort of. The original recordings weren't the greatest to begin with, so I figure what I have in this box set (and the "add-on" 2 CD set) is abotu as good as it's going to get. The fact that I'm on my second copy of the box set says something, too. :wink:
 
What about re-issues that have both mono and stereo versions on the same cd? Does anybody have any thoughts on that? I don't mind having both versions, but I wouldn't buy a cd just to get both versions.
I've been wondering what the process is Herb and the crew have been using to remaster the records. I would imagine he finishes one album then starts work on the next. If that is the case, is he going in order?. I also wonder which albums are done. I hope he's almost done!
 
kenny said:
What about re-issues that have both mono and stereo versions on the same cd? Does anybody have any thoughts on that? I don't mind having both versions, but I wouldn't buy a cd just to get both versions.
I've been wondering what the process is Herb and the crew have been using to remaster the records. I would imagine he finishes one album then starts work on the next. If that is the case, is he going in order?. I also wonder which albums are done. I hope he's almost done!

Kenny- great idea- especially for purists like us.
 
The most important mono/stereo pop album that comes to mind is the Beach Boys' PET SOUNDS. Thirty years passed since the release of the album and the eventual true stereo mix was made available,first in the PET SOUNDS box set-later Capitol released album mono/stereo as a stand alone disc. Both are extremely important versions. The world of classical music has an interesting history in pianist Glenn Gould's two recordings of Bach's Goldberg Variations. The 1955 mono recording was Gould's recording debut. In 1981 he revisited the work-it was to be his last recordng-he died days later. Some classical enthusiasts consider these two recordings to be the most important in recorded history. Both versions along with a third disc of added material,are available from Sony as a set, A STATE OF WONDER,twenty bucks list price. Mac
 
Mac: the 1981 "Goldberg Variations" was one of the first CDs I listened to. One annoying thing about it--it was released with only one track! If your CD player did not have the "index" feature, you could not jump to a specific spot on the disc! I have the 1955 version on vinyl, a couple years before it came out on CD.

There are probably royalty issues involved if you include both mono and stereo versions on one disc. It may actually be considered a two-fer, released that way.

One of the stumbling blocks with hybrid SACDs right now is about royalties. An SACD can have up to three separate programs on it: a standard CD layer, and an SACD layer that has a two-channel version and a multichannel version. The RIAA, ASCAP, or whoever, is saying that since there are three versions on there, royalties should be three times as much. No matter that you can only use one program at a time! DVDs with both widescreen and fullscreen versions probably don't have double royalty situations...why should music be any different?
 
I think the reissues are the best news I've heard all year. Who ever thought Herb Alpert's 9th would get a release.It would be cool to get The Christmas Album in before the year's end. Also...I noticed something at the end of "The Work Song" on the Definative Hits collection...am I hearing things or is there a slight tape hiss that fades in and out during the last few seconds of the song? I hope it will be corrected on the S.R.O. reissue. I think there is a couple other places as well on the disc where I noticed some gliches in the songs..although they are pretty difficult to spot out.
 
Plucky87 said:
am I hearing things or is there a slight tape hiss that fades in and out during the last few seconds of the song? I hope it will be corrected on the S.R.O. reissue. I think there is a couple other places as well on the disc where I noticed some gliches in the songs..although they are pretty difficult to spot out.

The DEFINITIVE HITS collection is full of sonic anomalies, and for some reason, virtually all CD issues of WHAT NOW MY LOVE and SRO-era recordings sound rather bad - kind of muddy and lifeless with a thumpy, distorted bass.

Hopefully the new remasters, whenever they surface, will be able to fix some of these problems.

Harry
...in a 'wait' mode, online...
 
IIRC, the song "What Now My Love" actually uses the demo version as its basis, so it sounds a bit wobbly at times. "Our Day Will Come" is a bit rough as well, and it's even more apparent on the CD version, where the whole thing sounds a little wonky.
 
I think some of the tracks from SRO are the worst sounding TJB recordings ever. Especially Our day will come and Bean bag. At one point I wondered if they were trying to create some kind of artificial "live" sound due to the album title and concert photo.

- greetings from the north -
Martin
 
Looking over this thread, there is one thing that's still up in the air, and that's the type of packaging these CDs would get. Will they be in the standard jewel cases? Digi-paks? Maybe the type of oversized CD jackets that Equinox was in? I guess I would prefer the standard jewel case.



Capt. Bacardi
 
I have worked long and hard on finding all the TJB lps on CD, and the ones not on CD put there via reel (including WARM, 9th, etc.), and also taking those and adding them to my Mp3 player.
I am as big a fan as you all but I am quite content.
I was sick of waiting for these re-releases.
Will I buy it? Not as fast as I would, say- 3 years ago.
 
I'll take whatever I can get. :)

ANYTHING is better than what I have now, which is pretty much not much.

I'll be very happy if those original albums eventually show up in my CD case.
 
Captaindave said:
I'll take whatever I can get. :)

ANYTHING is better than what I have now, which is pretty much not much.

I'll be very happy if those original albums eventually show up in my CD case.

And who could blame you! :thumbsup:
 
I for one hope they'll be in jewel cases with the original covers (front and back) faithfully reproduced, like the Verve by Request series.

I would not be opposed to digipacs either -- especially for Beat of the Brass and Brass Are Comin' given the gatefold orignal LPs. I know I'm in the minority here, but I actully enjoy Digipac packaging except for the "wear & tear" factor...

--Mr Bill
 
Digi-pak would be OK--if they get a lot of use, I usually duplicate CDs for use around here for portable, or car, and double-up on them as much as I can. Digi-paks are clumsy for booklets though. Mini LP jackets? No thanks.
 
I like digi-paks too. I do agree that the wear-and-tear factor is a consideration, but I always liked the packaging on the "Herb Alpert/Hugh Masekela" disc and wished that my other Alpert discs were like that too. I always thought that several titles would look especially cool as a digi-pak (Whipped Cream, Beat Of The Brass, Magic Man, Bullish). Of course, I would like a booket too that gave some info about the music and/or the sessions. I hope they don't end up putting the same liner notes in each disc, telling us stuff we already know about how the TJB rivaled the Beatles for popularity in the 60s, songs were used on "The Dating Game", 4 LPs in the top 10 simultaneously, etc. I would like individual information for each LP, if possible. I won't mind if they go with jewel cases, I just really like the Verve digi-pak reissues of the past several years.
As far as the mini LP sleeve, I'm not a fan. If you have an entire box set of several different albums together, then it's not too bad, but not individually, please! I don't like sliding the CD in and out of a cardboard sleeve. The wear-and-tear factor then applies to the disc as well as the sleeve!
 
One problem with some mini LP sleeves is that they do NOT have any kind of innersleeve. I have a box set of all five Simon & Garfunkel albums, nicely mastered on Columbia. They sound good, and the mini LP sleeves are actually very cool to look at, being replicas of the originals. BUT...the covers themselves do not stay totally flat, and the discs roll right out!

Anyone remember the first widely available CD to come in a mini LP jacket? It was Prince's Around The World In A Day. This was in the days of the CD "longbox". The CD itself came in a mini LP sleeve which used an innersleeve, but the actual lyrics were printed on the "longbox", which was like a tri-fold brochure in a way. The art was really done nice, but the inconvenience of it was annoying. The CD portion fit in my rack OK...but what the heck do you do with a stray "longbox"?

Rack space is another issue. Jewel boxes and Digi-paks fit into most existing shelving. SACD uses a jewel box with rounded corners. DVD-Audio, however, is in a jewel box that is sized halfway between a CD and a taller DVD case. I'm not about to store audio recordings in with my video collection! :mad:
 
I don't like sliding the CD in and out of a cardboard sleeve. The wear-and-tear factor then applies to the disc as well as the sleeve!

I agree too...I have a copy of George Harrison's Brainwashed with this type of packaging and it just looks cheap like those cardboard things they put around cappacino :laugh: . I just hope that the Herb Alpert & The TB reissues won't be released in that type of sleeve. I hope the rarities disc will be available by itself and not only available in a box set. Hmmm...what could the rarities disc be called? More Delights? :thumbsup:
 
Rudy said:
One problem with some mini LP sleeves is that they do NOT have any kind of innersleeve. I have a box set of all five Simon & Garfunkel albums, nicely mastered on Columbia. They sound good, and the mini LP sleeves are actually very cool to look at, being replicas of the originals. BUT...the covers themselves do not stay totally flat, and the discs roll right out!
Yes- they are either too tight or too loose- a slight tweaking of the product would be nice.
 
Captain Bacardi said:
Randy wants to do something to spark some interest to the younger folks. Sooooooo, Randy is about to start work on a "Stars on 45" concept, and have some of the TJB tunes done with a more modern drum beat, something that could be played in dance clubs and on radio.


Capt. Bacardi

That would not be a good idea, that concept was the worst. IMHO.
 
~~ Stephen ~~

I agree. Furthermore, if one is unable to appreciate recorded music as it was intended, why bother re-releasing it?

I've read the string concerning this Randy dude -- he totally sounds like a corp guy to me -- not a good vibe, just after the max $$. The whole point of re-releasing TJB and other older music is because it is special. His desire to "modernize" the sound (to spark interest) -- to sound just ike all the rest of the crap on the radio -- reveals that his agenda is to sell "product" not preserve "art".

[Thank the good lord he didn't get a-hold of something like Luiz Bonfa, perhaps he'd spark interest in the bossa rhythm by adding that dumb-ass rap beat to it...which is exactly what he's gonna to do the TJB. Guaranteed. Nick C. will be turning over in his grave! Bad all the way around!]

-James
 
James, I strongly disagree with you. First off, this "Randy" guy is neither corporate nor after big money.He is Herb Alpert's nephew. He has been visiting us here at the Forum for some time now and was nice enough to take time out from his busy schedule to meet with Capt. Bacardi and let us in on some firsthand news about the reissues. He and Herb have been playing with this concept since before "Rise"(which was co-written by this Randy guy) came out. So I'm sure whatever develops will be well thought out and done with class as is is customary for Herb Alpert releases. You must remember that this would not necessarily be targeted at us, his core fans. It would be an attempt to introduce the TJB to the young masses who IMHO have no idea what good music is. Therefore, just like you have to melt some cheese onto the spinach to get your child to eat it and enjoy it before he realizes that it's something he's not supposed to like, you have to add some element of 21st century noise to the recording to get people to give the artistic part of a chance. IMHO, even if they spin the TJB music backwards at double speed, it will still sound better and more entertaining than the crap that's out there these days. I think Randy is a very creative man with some good musical instincts and I will definitely give his and Herb's efforts the benefit of my listening before I judge.

David,
picturing John Travolta in his white bellbottoms dancing to "Tijuana Taxi" :)........
 
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