To Wait for Love

[manifan]

Recently I was able to upgrade the iTunes-only CDs I'd purchased for a small fee -- phenomenal sound, I might add -- and was listening again to "To Wait for Love." The album version makes me cringe. To me the single version is SO much better. Does anyone else think so? I just think the difference in vocal is remarkable. I wish they had put the single version on the LP.

 

[Dave]

Well, to me, I never noticed much difference...

I have been told the "single" version was different and even what to listen for, vocal-wise, but I'd just never quite found either version preferable, in either case...



Dave

 

[Harry]

Recently I was able to upgrade the iTunes-only CDs I'd purchased for a small fee -- phenomenal sound, I might add -- and was listening again to "To Wait for Love." The album version makes me cringe. To me the single version is SO much better. Does anyone else think so? I just think the difference in vocal is remarkable. I wish they had put the single version on the LP.

Agreed, though I don't know if "cringe" is the right word for me. I hear it, it's noticeable, and I accept it for what it is, but I do indeed prefer the mono single version of "To Wait For Love".

For one thing, the fade is much longer, and with Herb's stuff, longer is better!

But you're right, the vocal take on the single version has always seemed better to me. It's the one I heard over and over on hit radio back when the song was an early single from the upcoming album ultimately titles WARM. As the followup to the megahit "This Guy's In Love With You", radio gave it a lot of play and a big chance to register with the public.

But for some reason, it didn't chart nearly as high, reaching only #51 in the Top 100.

My guess for the reason there are two versions is that in fact the single didn't do all that well. When preparing WARM, Herb likely thought he could do it better and re-sang the lead on the song for its stereo inclusion on the album.

But with all of those airings of the mono version, its burned into my memory, and even today, when I hear the stereo version, it just sounds "wrong".

Harry

 

[Captain Bacardi]

But with all of those airings of the mono version, its burned into my memory, and even today, when I hear the stereo version, it just sounds "wrong".

I agree. While I'm not a fan of Herb's singing, I much prefer the 45 version.

Here's my theory, for whatever it's worth: Herb mentioned that he did the vocals for "This Guy" in one take, and it just happened to be that magical moment. So I'm wondering if he did the same approach to "To Wait..." to see what reaction it got. Since it didn't chart nearly as well - and it was the follow-up single to "This Guy" - maybe he then decided to re-record it for the album? Just a guess on my part.

I've mentioned several times in the past that I did my own compilation of the TJB's actual charted hits, and I did one version of the stereo/LP versions, and another of the mono/45 versions. It's an interesting contrast, especially with this song.



Capt. Bacardi

 

[Captaindave]

I think that To Wait For Love is a good song, but lacks what I will call the "magic" of song, time, and place of This Guy's...

Summer, 1968 - the Tijuana Brass is still a big pop music act playing to sell out audiences. BOTB TV special in April. The Herb Alpert and the TJB "mystique" and massive popularity is still strong. But, over the course of the next year and by mid 1969, this is going to change...

Ahead to Spring/Summer 1969 and the release of Warm - the above scenario has changed considerably in a year's time. I even wonder if This Guy's...would have had the same success if released a year later and not on the BOTB album...

FWIW...IMO.

 

[manifan]

I even wonder if This Guy's...would have had the same success if released a year later and not on the BOTB album...

FWIW...IMO.

Interesting observation. Never thought of it like that. I thought maybe because This Guy was such a megahit it was just impossible to follow.

Herb's voice does sound better on the single of TWFL, IMO. I really love the song itself. And although there are a few other versions out there by other artists, Herb's will always be my favorite.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

I even wonder if This Guy's...would have had the same success if released a year later and not on the BOTB album...

You may be right, but "This Guy" is a terrific arrangement that might have caught on anytime. There's no way to know, but....

I have long thought that the biggest reason Herb couldn't follow it up with another vocal hit was because his followup singles lacked the Bacharach magic touch in the arrangement and production departments. We know from the liner notes of the CDs that Burt arranged the song for Herb and was in the studio when "This Guy" was recorded. But in the followup tunes, there was too much orchestra, or sometimes Herb is singing in too high a range, or whatever...the lightning just didn't strike again.

 

[Captaindave]

I think the "lightning striking" idea is often the best explanation for why certain songs become legendary hits.

I also think that Warm in general was over-orchestrated.

I would have liked To Wait For Love better with more "Tijuana Brass" and less orchestra - even if Warm is seen in retrospect as beginning a period of transition to the next phase of Herb Alpert's career. I like some orchestration, but I don't care for the way the orchestra enters with an explosion and sort of blows the "wistful" mood of the song away.

I think that kind of orchestration better suits the Frank Sinatra style and not so much the Herb Alpert style.

 

[A&Mguyfromwayback]

Very simple, in my opinion - "This Guy's In Love With You" is a hit song, a great, memorable song. "To Wait For Love" just isn't - heard it a bunch of times now and I can't remember a single thing about the melody. If he'd done a cool version of "Raindrops Keep Fallin' On My Head" (which may not have even be written at that time, for all I know) or some other great song, I think it would've had similar success as "This Guy".......

 

[Captaindave]

Very simple, in my opinion - "This Guy's In Love With You" is a hit song, a great, memorable song. "To Wait For Love" just isn't - heard it a bunch of times now and I can't remember a single thing about the melody.

Yes, I agree.

I do remember the song and some of the lyrics, but agree that it is not at all in the same class as This Guy's..

The most memorable thing to me about the song are the little trumpet licks hooked on to parts of the verses...

 

[Michael Hagerty]

Remember, while "Warm" came out in the summer of '69, the single of "To Wait For Love" was an immediate follow-up to "This Guy".

KHJ, Los Angeles debuted "To Wait For Love" the week of August 21, 1968. The closest Bilboard online at Google Books is for 11 days before...August 10...and "This Guy" is still #16 on the Hot 100...and #1 on the Adult Contemporary chart. So direct comparisons were inevitable.

I think there was one...and only one...song Herb could have followed "This Guy's In Love With You" with and had the same level of success.

And for that to happen, he'd have needed Burt conducting and arranging.

It would have had to be done exactly right.

And he would have needed another magic TV moment, singing it to Sharon, and playing the trumpet in the instrumental break in a video reminiscent of, but different from the one for "This Guy's In Love" to burn it into the public consciousness.




"(They Long To Be) Close To You".




Of course, that would have deprived Karen and Richard of their first hit single...

 

[Mike Blakesley]

And for that to happen, he'd have needed Burt conducting and arranging.

I'm not sure what to think about that, given the treatment Bacharach gave to that song. His arrangement slowed the tempo way down and didn't emphasize the hooks the way Richard Carpenter's did. Of course if Bacharach had never HEARD the RC arrangement, he might have done his the same way Richard did!

 

[Michael Hagerty]

And for that to happen, he'd have needed Burt conducting and arranging.

I'm not sure what to think about that, given the treatment Bacharach gave to that song. His arrangement slowed the tempo way down and didn't emphasize the hooks the way Richard Carpenter's did. Of course if Bacharach had never HEARD the RC arrangement, he might have done his the same way Richard did!

I went for Burt arranging and conducting so that the sound of the record wouldn't have the wild extremes "To Wait For Love" had. I think Herb would have had to sing "Close To You" slowly for it to resonate with the audience...it would have had to have the same vulnerability of "This Guy's In Love With You".

It would also have helped to wait 2 weeks to a month more before releasing the record. Too many stations were probably still getting big requests for "This Guy" when "To Wait" came in the mail.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

wild extremes "To Wait For Love" had.

You're not thinking of "Without Her" by chance, are you? TWFL wasn't really any more extreme than "This Guy" was.

 

[Harry]

I remember that when Herb's "To Wait For Love" was first released to radio and I was trying desperately to get a recording from the radio. Everytime I thought I had it, it turned out to be "Who Is Gonna Love Me" by Dionne Warwick. It had a very similar structure to "To Wait For Love".

Harry

 

[Rudy]

Very simple, in my opinion - "This Guy's In Love With You" is a hit song, a great, memorable song. "To Wait For Love" just isn't - heard it a bunch of times now and I can't remember a single thing about the melody. If he'd done a cool version of "Raindrops Keep Fallin' On My Head" (which may not have even be written at that time, for all I know) or some other great song, I think it would've had similar success as "This Guy".......

I actually know both songs equally well--I grew up with the TJB records in the house, and even had "To Wait For Love" as the 45RPM version. I actually like the melody of TWFL a bit more than his big hit, but I agree the song is not hit material. Herb's arrangement is strikingly similar to the Tony Orlando version from a few years earlier. (And that single did not do well either.) I've also heard a Dionne Warwick version that made for a nice album track, but even there, no real hooks like the Alpert version.

One thing to remember, also: the smash success of the single was sparked by the TJB special that it was featured on. When the song finished on the broadcast, the telephones started ringing at the network, everyone asking where they could buy the song at. I don't think even Herb anticipated the huge success of that one...otherwise, A&M would already have had the single available in the marketplace.

 

[Captaindave]

Another factor might be that Herb Alpert was an extremely popular pop music celebrity at the time. He was universally known as a trumpet player and band leader who decided to sing a song rather than play the trumpet - singing not being something he was known for doing up to that point in time.

With This Guy's..., he laid down the horn and for the first time, sang (or maybe crooned?) a very pretty, skillfully arranged ballad that had quite a bit of sex appeal. The TV special revealed he was a very handsome and appealing personality, and it was the right place at the right time...

I remember quite well the big impact the performance of This Guy's... had on the big SRO crowd when I saw the TJB live in August, 1968 when This Guy's... was still on top of the charts.

 

[Captain Bacardi]

"To Wait For Love" is a bit of a quirky song. That third note of the melody just seems a bit odd. But I can't think of a definitive version of this song at all, and I've heard a few versions, mainly by pop vocalists a la Jack Jones or Vic Damone types. It didn't even make Bacharach's Look Of Love box set. I think it could be a good song if a really talented singer could do something different with it.



Capt. Bacardi

 

[DAN BOLTON]

I've always felt that Herb's take(the only one I've ever heard) of the song was a little "campy", for lack of a better word. it IS a quirky melody, and it belongs in the same vein as MARJORINE...a little bittersweet, mournful maybe, but with a surprising beat or lilt.

To me, MARJORINE describes a middle-aged Jewish spinster lady who once had dreams of being a cabaret star, and TWFL is the song she'd sing if she ever got the chance...it's what she ended up doing, and she has one more chance at love. Play the songs back-to-back and see if this scenario doesn't ring true.


Dan

 

[Michael Hagerty]

wild extremes "To Wait For Love" had.

You're not thinking of "Without Her" by chance, are you? TWFL wasn't really any more extreme than "This Guy" was.

Mike: In "Without Her" it's a very wide dynamic range. To me (and maybe it's just me) TWFL has tonal issues...very dull verse and chorus shifting to an overly bright bordering on shrill instrumental break.

"This Guy" had range but was smooth..because Bacharach's a master at creating balance from extremes. I think TWFL would have been a better record if Burt had arranged and conducted, but I think the only song that could have been a massive follow-up to "This Guy" would have been "Close To You" (again with Burt arranging and conducting).

"Raindrops Keep Fallin' On My Head" is an interesting idea and probably could have worked...but it would have been too long a gap to be a follow-up to "This Guy".

 

[Rudy]

"To Wait For Love" is a bit of a quirky song. That third note of the melody just seems a bit odd. But I can't think of a definitive version of this song at all, and I've heard a few versions, mainly by pop vocalists a la Jack Jones or Vic Damone types. It didn't even make Bacharach's Look Of Love box set. I think it could be a good song if a really talented singer could do something different with it.

Tony Orlando's version is on the box. Fourth track on disc 2, IIRC.

Life before Dawn.

 

[Captaindave]

IMO and FWIW...

I just don't see Raindrops Keep Falling...in the same league as This Guy's...

It's a good song- I like it and it was very popular - I'm thinking of the BJ Thomas recording here.

I'm just not able to put those two in the same class with Herb on vocal. I could see Herb doing the song, and maybe getting on the charts with it, but not with the impact of This Guy's ...

One thing that I think helps an artist with a song is if the song is tailored specifically for that particular artist, and if that artist has the definitive version - and I think that is the case with Herb and This Guy's...

 

[Harry]

Herb, of course, did both "Raindrops Keep Falling On My Head" and "(They Long To Be)Close To You", but didn't release them until he put them on LOST TREASURES a few years ago.

I'm on record as really liking Herb's take on "Close To You", but I don't think it would've been the mega-hit that Carpenters had with it, nor would it have come anywhere near the success of "This Guy's In Love With You."

His instrumental version of "Raindrops" is interesting, but again, nothing really special.

Harry

 

[Michael Hagerty]

I agree. My what-if is based on the idea that Herb would have had to do those songs differently than he did...a deliberate attempt to make "Close To You" his second #1 vocal hit with Bacharach heavily involved....and a vocal, not instrumental, version of "Raindrops".

I think, of those two, "Raindrops" would have been the lesser record...and could only work if Bacharach had picked Herb instead of B.J. Thomas for the soundtrack.

Herb needed a sensitive and vulnerable love song..and "Raindrops" is too happy-go-lucky. It was a better fit for B.J.

Even if I was right about the #1 potential for Herb with a just-right version of "Close To You", i can't think of the third song to keep the string alive. We didn't know it at the time, but Bacharach's hot streak was nearing its end and so was the era of the adult male vocal ballad. None of the few songs that were big hits for other artists from '69 onward (Yesterday When I Was Young, My Way,
Love Story, It's Impossible) are good fits for Herb as a vocalist (though the more I push Perry Como and all those strings out of my brain and re-imagine the song with Herb's phrasing and playing the trumpet in the instrumental break, the more I like "It's Impossible")

If you could keep a string going, there's hit potential when you get to the duet with Lani on "Come What May"...but I don't see the material to keep Herb on the radar as a major pop vocalist for 11 years to get there..

 

[Captain Bacardi]

Tony Orlando's version is on the box. Fourth track on disc 2, IIRC.

Doh! That's what I get for not using a magnifying glass....



Capt. Bacardi
...old man online...