What If The Beatles Had Signed With A&M?

[CherryStreet]

Thought this might be a good idea for a new thread. Earlier this month Herb was asked by the a member of the British Press if he had "Any Regrets?" His reply,

"My greatest regret? When I owned A&M, I didn't sign The Beatles. It was 1962, and they were available. I just wasn't aware of them."

What if the Beatles had signed with A&M?

How would the "nurturing" approach of A&M and the personalities of Herb & Jerry changed things stateside?

Do you think they might have lasted longer as a "Recording Unit"?

Would the TJB still have recorded as many Beatle songs?!

Would they have fallen in love with the vibe and camaraderie of the A&M lot and recorded a later album here?

It boggles the mind.

Love Potion Number 9.......Number 9.......Number 9

 

[Dave]

If A&M had the Beatles, I wonder if it would have ever acquired The Carpenters...

The Beatles were a fairly big deal to maintain... So I wonder just how much the group & record company as it stood at the time, vs. the way each "grew larger", would remain compatible...

I would suspect the way A&M was a small label at the time, the two might have parted company at some point... But, otherwise, there are a number of acts A&M did later acquire, which it may find it didn't need...

I wonder really how Capitol Records managed to withstand such a life-long association, "Custom Label, Apple Records", solo careers, (although George Harrison had moved on to a Warner Bros.-affiliate, WB-proper, along with creating his own Dark Horse label, beforehand, through them as well; Paul McCartney began a Columbia Record-associated venture (MPL-Communications, LTD), and Ringo Starr signed w/ Atlantic, Portrait & Boardwalk, and had John Lennon not have been assassinated, in what's going on THIRTY-YEARS, AGO, he may have also moved-on to another firm, although he'd began recording w/ Yoko Ono for Geffen) promotional goods, live appearances, and all...!



Dave

--Thinking The Rolling Stones might have been a more feasible possibility, but maybe not...!

 

[JZ]

I don't think it would have worked, if you mean actually having the Beatles based in LA with A&M as the main label. George Martin and Abbey Road played a big part in The Beatles sound, I don't see that anyone could have done it better. Now I do think that if your talking about just distribution for the American market, than yes, I think A&M might have done a much better job than Capital; you certainly wouldn't have had those echo-laden remixes of "I Feel Fine" and "She's A Woman" that Dave Dexter did. Not to mention the way Capital changed the early albums around from their British counterparts up until "Sgt Pepper".

 

[Harry]

I guess there's two ways to look at this. The Beatles, in England, signed with EMI. Brian Epstein and George Martin struggled with getting Capitol to sign them for US distribution.

Had A&M grabbed them at that point, it might have been short-lived, like their relationship with Swan and Tollie turned out to be. When they got big, EMI's clout would have given them over to Capitol just as it happened in 1963-4.

Now, if we're talking about A&M signing them in 1962 - before they signed with EMI, that's another whole story. Being British, one wonders how they would have managed to find their way to Herb's garage - which is essentially what A&M was in 1962. Why they'd sign with a California-based label run by a trumpeter with one album to his credit, and one other album by a gospel singer (George McCurn) that didn't do all that well, is a mystery to me.

And why Herb would sign an unknown British guitar group in 1962 is another mystery. It just wasn't to be. The timing wasn't right.

Now, if the timing were different - if A&M were already a well-established label and The Beatles came knocking on the door - or Jerry Moss picked up on them in his trips abroad, well then that would have been a different story.

I still think it's remarkable that Herb picked up on "All My Loving" as early as he did.

Harry

 

[Mike Blakesley]

I suppose as soon as "The Lonely Bull" became a hit, publishers began sending songs to Herb and/or A&M in hopes of getting them recorded. Some promotion outfit might have sent "All My Loving" to Herb or to the company, rather than him hearing the Beatles version of it first. Just a thought.

 

[DAN BOLTON]

I think the Beatles would have overshadowed the TJB. Herb and Jerry would probably have been so busy with them that there wouldn't have been much time to spend on the TJB sound.


It IS interesting to ponder just how Herb would have marketed the Beatles, however...



Dan

 

[Harry]

So, if The Beatles had been signed instead of George McCurn, might this have been A&M's second album?

Harry

 

[Dave]

So, if The Beatles had been signed instead of George McCurn, might this have been A&M's second album?

...


--Seriously, though... --Where would it leave Capitol? It would be 2nd-fiddle to A&M's prowess... RCA was enjoying success w/ Elvis after he left Sun... Warner Bros. was yet to enjoy the success it found w/ Peter, Paul & Mary...

While Capitol at least had The Kingston Trio, would it have signed The Carpenters, Cat Stevens, The Police, Peter Frampton, et al?

Of course, Eric Burdon & The Animals reunion album, Ark, on IRS (an A&M syndicate) leaves open yet another speculation, too...



Dave

 

[Mr Bill]

Harry, in retirement you must have a LOT of free time to toy with PhotoShop like that!

--Mr Bill

 

[Harry]

Actually, - just MS Paint! And every day is Saturday!

Harry

 

[A&M Retro]

Don't forget that A&M was the original distributor of Dark Horse Records, and that George purportedly dedicated "Learning How To Love You" to Herb Alpert when the distribution deal fell through.

John Lennon also recorded the earlier tracks of the Phil Spector -produced "Rock and Roll" album at A&M in 1973.

According to Richard Carpenter, Phil peeked his head in while Carpenters were cutting "Da Doo Ron Ron" for "Now and Then", and said, "Fascinating!" Or "Original!" or something to that effect, in a very sarcastic manner.
What a sleaze....

 

[Steven J. Gross]

Don't forget that A&M was the original distributor of Dark Horse Records, and that George purportedly dedicated "Learning How To Love You" to Herb Alpert when the distribution deal fell through.

Yep, in essence A&M did sign 25% of the Beatles, and as posted, it didn't go well...

 

[ALLENTOWNFAIR]

Oh my God!
Imagine a world in which fans were not permitted to purchase CDs of "With The Beatles," "The White Album," and "Abbey Road" because Herb didn't like the tinny sound!

 

[Harry]

Oh my God!
Imagine a world in which fans were not permitted to purchase CDs of "With The Beatles," "The White Album," and "Abbey Road" because Herb didn't like the tinny sound!

Now THAT'S a stretch!

Herb has suppressed some of his own recordings, those he considers lesser works. And only ONE of them was described as too "metallic" (I believe was the descriptor used). And that album HAS been on CD.

Harry

 

[A&M Retro]

The Beatles records never sounded tinny. They sound like they were recorded yesterday to me....especially the remasters (early mixes included).

 

[Dave]

Having heard slew of Beatles songs yesterday, while at work, (and noticing the difference between their version of "I'll Be Back" and my singing along w/ it, stretching out every note like Roger Nichols & The Small Circle Of Friends did, even trying to sing the other three songs they did on their album after "I'll Be Back" when a commercial came on) I certainly never heard anything "tinny", either...

Herb being the perfectionist he is, might have eliminated the "tinny sound", that is largely somewhat part of the Beatles charm, but may have over-used the echo chamber...!



Dave

...And tried to do my "vocalese" of "Nature Boy", ala Gabor Szabo & Gary McFarland after "The Word"; like how those songs were covered by them on their Simpático LP....

 

[mexicat]

Genius concept. I mean, The Beatles were pretty good but imagine how much better they could have been.

For starters, Herb & Jerry probably would have at least gotten proper musicians to play on the records, like Hal Blaine, Carol Kaye, Ervan Coleman and Julius Wechter etc, none of that Liverpool nonsense, no sir.

And what's with none of their LPs featuring cover versions of songs from "Fiddler On The Roof" Herb & Jerry could have fixed that, too.

Imagine how cool it would have been to see The Beatles miming to "Zorba The Greek" (played by Hal Blaine, Carol Kaye, Ervan Coleman and Julius Wechter etc) on the Hollywood Palace. Dressed as Mexicans!

Maybe they would have even managed to get Liza Minnelli in on lead vocals on the "White Album"? Dressed as a Mexican!

The whole of The Beatles career was one big wasted opportunity, IMO.

 

[Dave]

While clearly in retrospect, it's easy for Herb to cite how he regrets not getting to sign The Beatles onto his record company, it should be noted, years later after the formation & break-up of the group, that there came a couple noted incidents of John Lennon's Rock 'N' Roll album sessions, taking place at A&M Studios...

One of which was Phil Spector firing a gun off in the studio, banning him from working w/ John in making the remainder of the album... (& a subsequent ban on Spector from that facility...)

Another incident was a bottle of whiskey Lennon had accidentally knocked over on the recording console at A&M studios, during the mixing of his album, damaging it & also causing, him to be banned from working there, as well...

--A couple of related-facts to pass along here, as on this day as John Lennon turns 70...



Dave

 

[BOBTHE BUILDER]

There is an element of truth in all of the above postings.
Put them all together and the answer is still ---"it wasn't meant to be"
Also, think of "Abbey Road Studios" and it's unique accoustics. Would the boys have still recorded what are arguably some of their greatest works there? Add to that, George Martin and Dick Lester and their unique contributions.
Paul McCartney composed an Aria a few years back and it was performed, I believe, by the Liverpool Philharmonic and featured Dame Kiri Ti-Kanawa.
Would have been interesting to see the outcome of a liaison between McCartney and Alpert, particularly regarding Herbs arrangement / re-arrangement of Carmen, which is an absolute classic!

The Fab Brass --- The Tijuana Four who knows
Still a damned interesting topic though!

Bob

 

[Dave]

That still gets me thinking of how Atlantic got The Rolling Stones (by being distributor of their own Rolling Stone Records), after whatever British record labels they were on, seemed to, though in my own impression, had "given up on them"... Don't know how likely what could be coined as "a consolation" or "2nd best" could have made it here, but "what if?"... (And think of all those R/S LP's appearing on those Atlantic/Atco Records inner-sleeves, too!)

What about how The Animals reunion album Ark had been on IRS? The idea that Eric Burdon & The Animals, which saw much of their catalog "unreleased" or scrapped by MGM, the label they were on, not to mention much of the members getting into fights w/ one-another & on occasion at their Live concerts, even walking off the stage, seems to, again, being my own impression, says "A&M Group" all over it, in comparison to --and much like the types of bands Herb & Jerry did sign... --Maybe not?

The Dutch group, Focus, is yet, another speculation I have pondered... Given the success of their earlier albums on Sire, yet how Atlantic's Atco division treated my favorite Focus discs, Mother Focus and Hamburger Concerto, sawing rather vile looking cut-out marks in them before their time (though European pressings are held in a much more pristine regard; albeit being more expensive)... I really should have taken advantage of at least a couple of my record stores nearby carrying their entire album catalog on imported CD, at one time or another... (With a bonus cut, or two, on some, besides...) Ah, but FOCUS on A&M???? --Well, w/ these observations of mine, one can only stop & THINK, (& hopefully START AGAIN!!!), then...!



Dave

 

[CherryStreet]

What about how The Animals reunion album Ark

I saw that Animals tour supporting "Ark" at Michigan's Pine Knob.

There was not a whiff of "nostalgia" in the air. That was one hell of a show that I won't quickly forget. Even the new stuff totally smoked that night.

I think it was the last tour wiith Chas Chandler on Bass. Still had great chops.

Of course after the Animals split up in late 1966, Chandler became manager of Jimi Hendrix and recruited the other musicians to form The Jimi Hendrix Experience.