What Miles says about Al Hirt

[JOv2]

Well, not that it matters to anyone by me, but I rather like Cecil's music -- although I only know his '50s/'60 LPs (and have nearly 10 recordings from this era). Getting only a "mid-flight" clip of any performance is rarely representative of a the work at hand; and there are plenty of similar dissonant or atonal sections in the works of Mingus, Monk, and certainly Miles that may seem similarly cacophonous -- though it depends on one's threshold, of course. Being rooted in jazz music first, and classical music second, atonality intrigues me (as do "non-musical" sounds in general). Most times when I get a call to arrange or "score" a pop arrangement, nearly everytime I'm having to defend little dissonant elements here and there (that I like) that the producer doesn't feel is appropriate or the songwriter is "unsure of...". Like Charles Mingus, Archie Shepp, Alber Ayler, Don Cherry, Ornette Coleman, and Eric Dolphy (to name only a few), the attraction to pushing the ear regarding melody, harmony, and counterpoint is a life-long fascination. However, I'll be the first to admit, though, much of the appreciation is mostly from other artists. Believe it or not, I have an extended recorded work by Taylor + an outtake of the same piece...it would drop most jaws to learn that both were quite similar...That it to say, although at times (to some) it may sound like an 8-year-old throwing a temper tantrum at a music store, it's actually arranged to significant degree. Now, while that does not necessarily make it "good" music, it should, nevertheless, be recognized that much thought and attention went into the music. This is what Bill Evans and others pick up on...

Here's what Bill Evans said about a Cecil Taylor piece from 1964 Blindfold session:

I really got with that -- it was interesting. I like it. In fact, I liked it a lot. I think that what they were going for they realized very well, and i would give it five starts except that I feel that with that wonderful beginning they could have realized a lot more with change of texture and dynamic exploration. For what it is, it's realized almost perfectly, but it just didn't explore enough areas of expression...all dramatic effect is achieve by change: by setting up one thing and then bringing in some sort of contrast. It's probably Cecil Taylor.

Here's a list of a few famous double bassists in the '60s that were/are associated with progreessive/experimental improv-based music. I'm sure you'll recognize nearly all of them...

Eddie Gomez: Initially in the October (’64) Revolution (Paul Bley)

Charlie Haden: In Ornette's first quartet ['59--'61]

Dr. David Izinson: Recorded with both Ornette and Archie Shepp. Left music to become a psychologist

Scott La Faro: He may vary well have been the finest improvisational artist to play the instrument during the period, ‘59-61. In addition to the Bill Evans trio recordings, look for other sessions under the leadership of Booker Little, Ornette, and Mingus. He died at age 28, JUL61

Ron McClure: With Charles Lloyd's fascinating late '67-69 ensemble

Dr. Buell Neidlinger: Extremely gifted artist who recorded much with Cecil; mooligthed as Principal bassist in the Houston symphony [late '50s/early ‘60s]

Gary Peacock: Played with Albert Ayler, Sonny Simmons, and Paul Bley during the October Revolution

Dr. Barre Phillips: In Archie Shepp's amazing quartet at Newport '65

Alan Silva: Experimental artist of merit. Performed with Albert Ayler and several ESP dates

Alan Stinson: Died very young. Listen to him on Bobby Hutcherson's truly beautiful Oblique (’67)

Steve Swallow: Fine writer, too – essential to Gary Burton’s ground-breaking pop-jazz fusion quartet (’66-69]. Check him out on early Paul Bley and Trio recordings, too.

 

[jazzdre]

It's funny that Cecil is being discussed here! Many moons ago,I worked in a record store(do you all remember those institutions?), and there was a guy that I worked with who was pretty much something of a smarta**, and he was a big jazz fan(well, he really was into the avant-garde and traditional jazz)who was heavily into Cecil!

At that time, I was into contemporary jazz;which evolved into(or devolved for some of you) smooth jazz.This guy hated this type of jazz, and would always make snide remarks about contemporary jazz, and also me personally for liking this type of music.I wanted to break his jaw, but I had other things to do with my life. Anyway, he always used to put Cecil, Ornette Coleman, Coltrane, Archie Shepp, and others like them on some sort of high falutin pedestal thinking that they were the greatest thing to happen to jazz!

Since that time,I've grown to love the traditional jazz, and the more acoustic based jazz, but I still can't get into free jazz! One day, I was at the library, and found a CD by Cecil, that was put out by of all record labels, Arista! The music was what you'd expect:disonant,weird, loud, abrasive.And this was his trio! He did a new take on the standard "So What's New", and it was almost as if he was piling note upon note, like a bricklayer laying down bricks, pile upon pile. He actually built it up where it sounded like something out of heavy metal!

To be honest with you all, I am impressed with his maverick independence, and his insistence upon doing things his way, but to paraphrase Harold Robbins, "Once Is Definitely Enough"!(By the way, anybody has his A&M album that came out in the early 90s? Just thought I'd ask!)

 

[nightcat]

I am fond of experimental jazz up to a certain point. There is one Cecil Taylor lp I have and actually enjoy. Looking Ahead on Contemporary. I think it is a 60s release. I wonder if Bill Evans was commenting on something from that lp. At least on that album, Taylor gives me something to hold on to. There's at least some kind of structure.
Downbeat blindfold tests are fun and quite interesting. Its the one place you get to see artists playing critic. I'm sure there's many other quotable reviews.

JO mentioned 2 of my favorite bassists in his list. Scott Lafaro was unbelievably gifted... just check out his lps with Bill Evans. What a terrible loss. Steve Swallow on the other hand had a long career. His lps with the Gary Burton quintet were outstanding. His leanings toward the avant garde extended into his social life. He ended up marrying the wild and wacky Carla Bley.

 

[DAN BOLTON]

This is why the called Cecil Taylor's stuff "free jazz" - nobody would pay for it.



Capt. Bacardi

Yoko Ono could be his vocalist...



Dan

 

[JOv2]

I am fond of experimental jazz up to a certain point. There is one Cecil Taylor lp I have and actually enjoy. Looking Ahead on Contemporary. I think it is a 60s release. I wonder if Bill Evans was commenting on something from that lp. At least on that album, Taylor gives me something to hold on to. There's at least some kind of structure...Scott Lafaro was unbelievably gifted... just check out his lps with Bill Evans. What a terrible loss. Steve Swallow on the other hand had a long career. His lps with the Gary Burton quintet were outstanding. His leanings toward the avant garde extended into his social life. He ended up marrying the wild and wacky Carla Bley.

Yes, Looking Ahead ['58] is Cecil's 2nd LP and is a fine record -- I'm quite confident anyone who likes progressive/post-bop would find the record very listenable. Similarly, Ornette Coleman's 2nd LP, Tomorrow Is The Question ['59] is very listenable, and includes drummer Shelly Mann.

With these progressive artists, it's nearly essential to start with their first LPs...if you experience their journey "out there", one step at a time, and over time (a few years), it all makes more sense. Otherwise, it's difficult to understand and appreciate the music. Shelly said of Ornette: "When I worked with Ornette, I became more of a person in my own playing". Gil Evans once said: "I like him. He swings, and he's got a good feeling for melody". Miles, on the other hand, once said: "Hell, just listen to what he writes and how he plays. If you're talking psychologically, the man is all screwed up inside."

Carla Bley!!! Oh, my -- now there's a unique talent. Dig her Reactionary Tango ECM LP. Swallow was in Paul Bley's trio that featured Carla's music; of course, Carla was Bley's wife at the time...you can figure out the rest of the story...

 

[JOv2]

Yoko Ono could be his vocalist...

Actually, something very close to that happened...it was either with Ornette Coleman or Frank Zappa I believe (someone help me out here). A music friend of mine said that it was a pretty good performance, then Yoko started to exercise her no-talent muscle at the mic.

 

[Captain Bacardi]

(By the way, anybody has his A&M album that came out in the early 90s? Just thought I'd ask!)

Yeah, I got the vinyl of the album titled In Florescence, released in 1990. It was an AOTW back in 2005. Do a search and you'll see exactly what people thought of it!



Capt. Bacardi

 

[Mr Bill]

Mr Bill... Cecil Taylor isn't blind. It isn't his vision that's impared.

I know. I was being "snarky" because he was hitting the piano like the conga man in our band hits the bongos and congas. It just looked how I'd imagine changing a blind man's instrument on him would look...

P.S. Hey Bill, where are you?

We're back in port and having two changes of command -- C7F was yesterday (Had to work as PAO and have Duty today). After the Blue Ridge change of command Tuesday I take off for San Diego again for my last leave before this tour is over. I'll try swing by before I leave, otherwise I'll see you at the beginging od August before (I hope) our next underway period...This tour has been so much less than I expected or hoped for.

--Mr. Bill

 

[DAN BOLTON]

Yoko Ono could be his vocalist...

Actually, something very close to that happened...it was either with Ornette Coleman or Frank Zappa I believe (someone help me out here). A music friend of mine said that it was a pretty good performance, then Yoko started to exercise her no-talent muscle at the mic.

She must've done it on the fly...



Dan

 

[audiofile]

.
JO mentioned 2 of my favorite bassists in his list. Scott Lafaro was unbelievably gifted... just check out his lps with Bill Evans. What a terrible loss. Steve Swallow on the other hand had a long career. His lps with the Gary Burton quintet were outstanding. His leanings toward the avant garde extended into his social life. He ended up marrying the wild and wacky Carla Bley.

Steve Swallow has to be my favorite bassist of all time. Those four Gary Burton albums, Duster, Lofty Fake Anagram, Live @ Carnegie Recital Hall, and Country Roads have some of the greatest music ever put on record. I loved that band, although they changed the lineup a little bit. Country Roads may be the first record where Swallow plays electric.

 

[Mr Bill]

She must've done it on the fly...

Dan

Years ago my roommate owned Yoko's Fly album. As weird as it was I got to actually enjoy listening to it eventually. And Ms Ono was doing this stuff years before the B-52s started doing it...

--Mr. Bill

 

[DAN BOLTON]

She must've done it on the fly...

Dan

Years ago my roommate owned Yoko's Fly album. As weird as it was I got to actually enjoy listening to it eventually. And Ms Ono was doing this stuff years before the B-52s started doing it...

--Mr. Bill

I remember when FLY first came out...I played a cut over the air on the campus radio station without listening to it first. It reminded me of a cartoon I saw a few years earlier featuring a young rock musician with his hand in a cast talking to his producer in the studio behind a door that was being replaced. The tagline came from the producer who was saying,"The bad news is that it'll cost 50 bucks to replace tha door. The good news is that when you got your hand caught in it, the tape was rolling...we released it as a single, and you're finally in the top ten!"


Our music director[who acted as programming director] was a huge Zappa fan, and even he couldn't stomach Yoko's record...


Dan