What's happening to this "Forum"???????

[lonely bull]

So a few more people have expressed their opinions about certain CD's which they consider to be poor material - shock! horror! so what? I would like to know in what way have the " rules " been contravened? By expressing an opinion that certain moderators don't like? or don't agree with? Come on - grow up! This Forum is dying on it's feet and has become so boring lately - there is nothing worth discussing anymore - and yet if something comes up that IS worthy of discussion it gets locked out or certain people post defamatory remarks about the person writing the post! I think it's time we had some new moderators - and as a last point - I hate to dissapoint some of You but Herb is not perfect - it was a mistake releasing Rewhipped before the rest of the catalogue ( in my opinion he has made himself a laughing stock ) and he if he does visit this forum then he obviously has no respect for his fan's wishes either.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

Herb is not perfect - it was a mistake releasing Rewhipped before the rest of the catalogue ( in my opinion he has made himself a laughing stock ) and he if he does visit this forum then he obviously has no respect for his fan's wishes either.

Oh, I don't know. I think if you took a poll of all the people who have bought Herb's CDs over the years, and you asked: What would you rather have: The rest of the TJB catalog released immediately, or a new updated, re-imagined version of WHIPPED CREAM with new Herb trumpet solos, a tasty new cover, and a bunch of on-air interviews and appearances to support it? I think most fans (including me) would say, put out the new project NOW and let the other reissues wait until it's been supported fully, hopefully drawing in some new fans to the old music in the process.

Maybe Herb wanted to get a new trumpet project on the streets while he's still relatively young and in good health, did you ever think of that? The old albums have the entire future to be released in....Herb's time for new projects is limited by nature.

 

[lonely bull]

Well maybe we should have a poll; personally I don't want to see any more rehashed albums. In my opinion Rewhipped is a load of old rubbish and an insult to Whipped Cream.

 

[seashorepiano]

Beating a dead horse doesn't do much.

 

[Mr Bill]

In answer to your question (What's Happening To This Forum?) I'll answer:

The same few people are expressing their disappointment with the latest efforts of two A&M stalwarts. Their unwillingness to let a single post or even a single thread stand to justify their displeasure they make mulitiple posts in multiple threads expressing this position and generate new threads to maintain their vitriol at the top of the forum page. And they want or expect Herb and Sergio to post here!

This in turn has caused a few to counteract by posting their own vitriolic "counter-posts." Sort of a forum version of Israel-Hezbollah -- plenty of guilt blame and shame to go around.

Me, personally, I despise Wild Romance through Second Wind (with the exception of KYEOM) but I've never made a dozen posts or started a dozen diatribes or threads about how "Herb sucks" or betrayed his fan base because those albums -- in my opinion -- sucked. In fact, this post is probably the most negative thing I've said about those recordings (which I rarely play).

Every LP is someone's favorite and every album is despised by someone else. We need to deal with our own tastes.

Sure we can express our opinion in the apprpriate thread but IMO the bashing must stop. Great -- some of us love Re-Whipped and others hate it. Express your opinion and move on. Express it again when it becomes Album of the Week. But do we really have to have three posts a week by the same one or two people saying ad infintim that "Herb misstepped" or "Re-Whipped -- what was Herb thinking" or "Re-Whipped sucks" or (my fave) "Herb ruined a good thing" as if Re-Wipped is intended to replace the classic....

--Mr Bill
hoping we can all get back on track and (myself included) get civil once again

 

[Harry]

No-one has a problem with negative opinions. It's how they're being handled that's the problem.

Disagreements should be expressed without flaming the other person. There should never be an occasion where members call each other names. Take that stuff off of the Forum if you must, but keep it off of the public discussion pages.

The thread that I locked had digressed too far to be left open, as people were calling each other names simply for disagreeing about a CD's relative merits.

It was started properly as a dissenting thread and quickly devolved into name-calling. That won't be tolerated here - it's as simple as that.

No-one ever said that Herb was perfect. I think Herb would even agree with that idea - heh! Lani too!

Harry

 

[lonely bull]

Don't recall any " name calling "? Apart from maybe the post that was edited? Just a difference of opinion. That's what is commonly known in this country as a FORUM. A forum is a place where people meet to discuss different topics and to offer their opinions. Look it up in the dictionary sometime. In the meantime, if You don't like reading peoples opinion then perhaps You should think twice about visiting here.

 

[Rudy]

Regarding the name calling: the moderators had to do a massive cleanup on the last thread we closed. Forum or not, we do have rules here to the effect of: no flaming, no threadcrapping, and no personal attacks. We value opinions, but just about everyone is capable of *constructive* criticism, without having to resort to flaming or attacking others. In other words, there are good, intelligent ways to discuss what we like or dislike; mudslinging is not the way to go about it. In fact, we have been discussing this offline, and expect to make an announcement later today to reinforce our policy.

 

[lonely bull]

Totally agree with the forum policy but You can't knock people for expressing their dissatisfaction with CD releases, lack of reissues etc. You are seeing it as "whining" but none the less it's someone's opinion - which everyone is perfectly entitled to! At the end of the day Herb would be nowhere without his fans and no doubt Shout! have made a handsome profit too - it would be nice to have some feedback about future plans in return.

 

[Stephen Vakil]

it was a mistake releasing Rewhipped before the rest of the catalogue ( in my opinion he has made himself a laughing stock ) and he if he does visit this forum then he obviously has no respect for his fan's wishes either.

If I may say, I think this is a little harsh! For what it's worth I prefer ReWhipped to the original. It has been in my car CD player since its release and I really appreciate the new improvised trumpet parts. The only song I skip is Love Potion #9 and that's because of the vocal.

And I would rather focus on the positives of the reissue project - two albums (9th and Sounds Like) which I never thought I'd have on CD now grace my shelves. We've had a new album, another album of largely unreleased gems, a live DVD, a live perfromance (albeit too brief) at the Hollywood Bowl, a TV appearance - and that's just in the last few months. And, having listened to Lani Hall for thirty years, I finally got to hear her perform live too.

When I think how little - if anything - made its way to the UK (or anywhere else) in the 1970's and 1980's, I think we should count ourselves extremely fortunate to have had so much output in such a short space of time.

Stephen

 

[thetijuanataxi]

I, too am getting tired of The "Re-Whipped" bashing in nearly every thread. When all you bashers have the billions of dollars and millions of devoted fans that come from a lifetime of great judgement and good instincts about what was the right music to make or sign on your label, than you'll be in a position to tell Herb Alpert which project to do next. Until then, you are the ones making "laughing stocks" of yourselves. "Re- Whipped" is a decent listenable CD. Of course, like most charter fans, I prefer the original. But I can still enjoy the updated version as well. Was it a mistake releasing "Re-Whipped"? Certainly not from a marketing standpoint. It's had a very successful run with the jazz charts, so JAZZ buyers are buying this CD. To keep berating it is pointless and if I were Herb looking at your constant bashing, my response would be too nasty to post here. It's a dead horse. Everyone on the forum knows who absolutely detests "Re-Whipped". Let it go. I, for one, am glad that Herb still records at all. He certainly doesn't need the money. I want the rest of the re-issues as much as any of you do, but I'm not going to be insulting to a man who has literally been the soundtrack of my life. HE deserves more respect than that. The man is over 70 years old. He just spent the last two years going through all of those tapes, putting out the re-issues that we already have, recording "Re-Whipped" which a majority of us like, not to mention all of his other non-musical endeavors. How much can one man do? He's no spring chicken anymore. If he needs to take a break and spend some time with his family, so be it. No one has said the re-issues were done and in fact there has been evidence to the contrary. Not to mention we still have The Captain's conversation with Randy Alpert. But just because it isn't happening in "your" timetable, you continue to hound us with highly repetitive posts that we all are tired of. Give Herb a chance to take a breath. He doesn't tell you how to run your life. Be patient and let him present them when he's ready. If it gets announced that the reissues are over, then maybe your gripes will have a place. Until then, let's move on.

David,
hoping we've all gotten through.............

 

[Dave]

A "Poll" was missing from the recently Locked Topic on "Whether the new Herb/Sergio releases were a "plus" or "minus" to either...", however it seemed easy to see what those "results" might'a looked like...!

Additionally it seems impossible to discuss either Alpert or Mendes without resorting to discussions on "What's NOT on CD" and "That ____ SHOULD be Reissued on CD, instead of____..."

I would like to see a more thorough reissue projects of a LOT of my favorite artists... I'm sure if Gabor Szabo, my favorite Jazz artist, were alive today, he'd probably do a "remixed" album, as opposed to a LOT of albums, still yet to be on CD and I, too, would admit disappointment...

Well, not so much that I'd take anything out on any of my friends...

Peace!



Dave

 

[spanky1]

I didn't read this board for a couple of days, but WOW, it looks like it got ugly. I actually posted in the thread that got locked, so I feel as if I were involved. I've gone back twice and re-read it, and don't see anything that should have been considered "hostile". Since I got this cd a few weeks ago, I've posted 2 or 3 times about it, but nothing that I would consider excessive.

I don't want to be in a forum that is a constant battlezone, but I don't want to be in a forum that turns into hero-worship, where any negative comment is the start of a war of words. I would hope that everyone here is adult enough to be a bit more "thick-skinned". If you see a topic that is beaten to death, let it go and don't post. If the majority feels the same, it will die a quick death. Even if the same person keeps bringing up the same point over and over, just don't reply to it.

I'm a huge Steely Dan fan, but I enjoy dissenting discussion about Don and Walt. Let's enjoy this forum, it's one of(if not THE BEST) music related sites that I visit.

I did like Mike's idea in the second post about the poll. How about something like would you rather see 1)the remainder of the catalog 2)a "re-whipping" of one of the previously released cd's. I don't think that question would be harmful. I also know that we could go on and on about how we've been told the releases are on the way...blah, blah, blah.

Let's just make it a simple question and see if it could stay civil.

Michael H.

 

[Harry]

There were no problems with your participation, Michael. You were honest and civil, and that's what we strive for here.

It got ugly later on and had to be edited to keep the forum "family-friendly", so it's not in its original form anymore. Suffice it to say that it had devolved to the point of angry name-calling. We don't need that here.

Rudy has posted a new set of guidelines at the top of the Small Circle Of Friends Forum. So far things have been just fine. It was just a flaring of tempers that sometimes happens when people are passionate about things.

Harry

 

[spanky1]

Thanks Harry. I appreciate it!

Michael H.

 

[Mike]

Harry: "honest and civil, and that's what we strive for here."

Yes, of course Harry. Tell that to the Snark-O-master, better known as Captain Bacardi.

And, you guys turned a blind eye to all his rude remarks.

Nice try, Mods... but it don't wash.

 

[Harry]

Harry: "honest and civil, and that's what we strive for here."

Yes, of course Harry. Tell that to the Snark-O-master, better known as Captain Bacardi.

And, you guys turned a blind eye to all his rude remarks.

Nice try, Mods... but it don't wash.

Maybe that's because we know the Captain just a bit better than some of you. We've been "around" him for nearly a decade now and are used to his sometimes biting remarks, his sarcasm, and his humor.

It is true that sometimes things written on a message board don't translate well, and can be misinterpreted. I'm not making excuses for the Captain - and will leave that to him - I'm just pointing out that sometimes message board misunderstandings are a result of the nature of the medium.

I know I've occasionally re-read posts of my own and without being in the mindset I was in when I wrote it, have difficulty understanding what it was that I meant at the time.

Harry

 

[lonely bull]

Yes, the Captain can sometimes come across as being a little abrasive - but he is harmless and his heart is in the right place ( I think )

 

[Mr Bill]

Plus he knows quite a bit (impressive for a 'bone player, ya gotta admit)!

--Mr Bill
besides, you can't have too many "Bills" in a forum

 

[Vinylalbumcovers]

I think this thread should be re-titled, "Lightning Rod". There was no way one was gonna go well. Can we please play nice again?

Ed