A&M's Use of Styrene for their 1960's & 70's 45's?

[mexicat]

Hi all,
Quick question for the A&M vinyl collectors among you...

Did A&M always press their USA 45rpm singles on styrene rather than vinyl back in the 60's and 70's? Reason I'm asking is, every US-pressed A&M 45 of that period I have is made of styrene, and while it's always cool to have the original article, styrene pressings were never the most durable. Some of my favorite 45's (TJB, Merry-Go-Round, Sergio, Evie Sands etc) don't sound as good as vinyl pressings, say from Europe, UK and Japan and I just wondered if any US 45rpm pressings (or promos) were issued on vinyl as well?

Gracias amigos, and I hope you are all keeping warm wherever you are...
Best-
M (cut off by snow)

 

[Steven J. Gross]

How can you tell styrene from vinyl?

 

[Rudy]

From my own experience, most A&M singles were on Styrene. The white label promo singles (in the 60s anyway, the only ones I have) were on vinyl, though, to stand up to repeated use at radio stations. When I was a kidlet, Dad and I went to one store that had a bin of loose singles (used, probably jukebox pulls), and I picked out quite a few A&Ms really cheap. The more popular ones did not stand up well to jukebox use. Columbia pressed singles for A&M and theirs were styrene as well. I know this continued into the 80s as I have some singles from that era that are still styrene.

Steve--styrene is more "plasticky" and brittle. Wears way too easily, which is why I rarely buy A&M singles (not knowing how they were treated in the past). One way to tell is if the edges of the single are very squared off and sharp, chances are it is styrene. If you get out to a used record shop one day, grab an older RCA single with a black label and compare it to a standard A&M. They even feel different.

 

[Steven J. Gross]

Steve--styrene is more "plasticky" and brittle. Wears way too easily, which is why I rarely buy A&M singles (not knowing how they were treated in the past). One way to tell is if the edges of the single are very squared off and sharp, chances are it is styrene. If you get out to a used record shop one day, grab an older RCA single with a black label and compare it to a standard A&M. They even feel different.

I know exactly what you mean- thanks for that Rudy!!!

 

[Rudy]

I know styrene broke easy. Mom broke my copy of "Close To You" when I was a kid because I was spinning it around on the top of the (then-new) Magnavox, and it left some faint scratches.

 

[Harry]

Styrene singles were "cue-it-once" items in the radio station. Once you cued it, you had to dub it off to tape cart. A second attempt would yield a nice long cue burn on the opening.

Harry

 

[Dave]

Nice to learn something else new about the manufacturing of vinyl...


Dave

NP: Beatles "Polystyrene Pam"

 

[Mr Bill]

How can you tell styrene from vinyl?

Put a dab of model airplane glue between two singles. If after a half hour they are stuck together, they're styrene. If they separate, they're vinyl.

--Mr Bill

 

[mexicat]

Mr Bill's right, but if you're still unsure whether a 45 is styrene or not you can tell instantly by tapping the edge of it with your fingernail, it will sound hollow, like a high-pitched plasticky note, whereas a vinyl 45 will sound flat if you tap the edge of it. You will definitely hear the difference, and that's before you even put the needle on them. And yeah, styrene 45s are brittle I've snapped them in half by accident just taking them off the deck. Uh, where's that glue...

So far, thanks for the info fellas. Funny thing is, I just checked a bunch of white-label A&M promos like Claudine Longet, Sergio Mendes and every one I have is styrene too. Maybe Herb & Jerry figured, "ahh it's only Claudine, press 'em on styrene she's French, she won't know the difference..." Maybe they tried the same thing with Sergio, "ahh press 'em on styrene, Sergio's Brasilian, he won't know the difference..." but Sergio got all batucada on them and Herb retaliated by marrying Sergio's lead singer and making him record for Bell... We may never know...

Stay warm folks.
Best-
M

 

[Steven J. Gross]

Perhaps the idea was to make buying the vinyl LPs more definite, promote the albums with "throwaway" singles?

 

[Michael Hagerty]

Styrene singles were "cue-it-once" items in the radio station. Once you cued it, you had to dub it off to tape cart. A second attempt would yield a nice long cue burn on the opening.

Harry

You were brave if you did it even once. My practice was to roll tape at 30ips, gently set the needle down on the outer groove, let it play and then dub the reel to cart.

---Michael Hagerty

 

[Harry]

Styrene singles were "cue-it-once" items in the radio station. Once you cued it, you had to dub it off to tape cart. A second attempt would yield a nice long cue burn on the opening.

Harry

You were brave if you did it even once. My practice was to roll tape at 30ips, gently set the needle down on the outer groove, let it play and then dub the reel to cart.

---Michael Hagerty

Much safer!

Harry

 

[RichardWarner]

The first time I met Herb was at Atlanta's WSB radio. Nervous as hell. Before my interview (which lives here in the "Interviews" tab), the live jock, Matt Ceasar, interviewed him. Prior to the interview, herb was looking over the carts on the back wall and told the A&M person with him that they needed to start delivering music to radio stations directly on cart so the quality would be better. I bit my tongue.

Years later, interviewing him on camera at WXIA TV, I noticed that prior to going on, Herb walked through the studio looking at the various things it takes to make a TV station work. Piecing that together with his poking around the radio station, it struck me how curious he is.

 

[Michael Hagerty]

Prior to the interview, herb was looking over the carts on the back wall and told the A&M person with him that they needed to start delivering music to radio stations directly on cart so the quality would be better. I bit my tongue.

Good thing they knew when to ignore the boss.

For those who wonder why it was a bad idea, most radio stations' cartridge playback machines (if they had a good engineering staff) had heads aligned as closely as possible to each other and to the cartridge recorders that were in-house.

If Herb's idea had been taken seriously, those stations would have had to align their heads to match the alignment at A&M. Troublesome enough...but then there would have been all the other labels...all aligned differently.

 

[Rudy]

Didn't anyone ever make any kind of standardized alignment tape for those machines, or were they too finicky even then?

 

[Michael Hagerty]

Didn't anyone ever make any kind of standardized alignment tape for those machines, or were they too finicky even then?

They did, but station engineers did funny things to compensate for aging equipment. Getting thousands of radio stations dead set perfectly aligned to the same standard would never have happened. Herb would have ended up with product sounding like crap on a lot of stations...and very little consistency from one station to another in the same market. Plus 45s were cheaper to make and ship.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

A note for 45 lovers. You need a light tracking broadcast cartridge with a conical stylus for least record wear on styrene. The Stanton 680 series with the A needle or the Shure M 44-7 are my favorites for least cue burn and record wear. And they also excel at older vintage discs. And this comes from a 37 year broadcast engineering veteran.

 

[mexicat]

A note for 45 lovers. You need a light tracking broadcast cartridge with a conical stylus for least record wear on styrene. The Stanton 680 series with the A needle or the Shure M 44-7 are my favorites for least cue burn and record wear. And they also excel at older vintage discs. And this comes from a 37 year broadcast engineering veteran.

Aha! I've often wondered if styrene 45's were cut differently to vinyl 45's, good to know a lighter cartridge helps although there's not much you can do if you want to play a BMB 45 out in a club...

Will look into those Stantons, thanks for the tip!

 

[lukpac]

From my own experience, most A&M singles were on Styrene. The white label promo singles (in the 60s anyway, the only ones I have) were on vinyl, though, to stand up to repeated use at radio stations.

I'm curious...which WLPs do you have that are on vinyl? *All* of my Merry-Go-Round WLPs (maybe about 15) are on styrene from Monarch...as much as I'd like them to be on vinyl So, 1967-1968, and 1971.

 

[Rudy]

Luke, I only have two one by Pete Jolly and another one by the Baja Marimba Band. Others here have collected far more WLPs than myself though, so they'd represent a better sampling. I have a single of the TJB's "Tijuana Taxi" b/w "Zorba The Greek" which is on vinyl also, but it is not a promo. Pretty sure all the others are styrene. @W.B. would probably be the expert here on who pressed styrene or vinyl, but I haven't seen him around in ages.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

Columbia and Monarch pressed styrene stock and promo 45 RPM discs.

 

[JeffM]

I've mentioned elsewhere the "flashlight test" for styrene vs. vinyl; shine a strong flashlight like an LED type from behind (or under?) the disc, and generally, if it's styrene you'll see a dull reddish spot of light, and if it's vinyl you won't see anything. Maybe not infallible, but quick 'n' easy. Like anything else, some companies' 45's, vinyl or styrene, were better than others.

Used to do promo art for a local top-40 AM station back in the late 70's and "hung around" when I could; the DJS there didn't necessarily know vinyl vs. styrene, but they used to call some singles "hard-pressed" (I now realize these were vinyl) and others "soft-pressed" (styrene.) They played 'em all live though, cue burns and all. Their FM rock competitor played most everything from carts and frankly sounded awful, with a pronounced "whooshy" sound to consonants and things like cymbals. They also sped-up everything they carted for a "brighter" sound that often came close to chipmunk territory.

My own recollections were that A&M, Columbia and Warner Bros. styrene singles were pretty good quality, while MGM, London/Parrot, and especially Polydor/RSO and Bell were often terrible. Among probably-vinyl labels, RCA Victor and MCA were generally decent, Capitol was highly variable (I used to have a persistent problem with Capitol 45's that were pressed off-center and "wowed"), while Motown and especially Atlantic were usually lousy.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

Some 45 RPM observations of mine. Not all styrene was bad. Columbia was decent if not cue burn abused. Warner Brothers/Elektra/Asylum styrene was very good. I usually got those as Specialty Records Corporation Olyphant, PA vinyl pressings which were great. London/Parrot styrene was horrible and in the USA until the PolyGram takeover that is all you got. The Canadian pressings of those were superb. A&M styrene was good. MGM was variable. Some pressings better than others. Polydor/RSO styrene fair. Bell and Arista some of the worst styrene pressings made. Usually marked with Cue It Once, You Moron on the labels. RCA Victor was usually superb and wore like iron, likewise for Capitol. MCA post 1973 was often on the noisy side. Columbia Santa Maria, CA or Canadian pressings our favorites.

 

[JeffM]

I remember getting some horrible styrenes on Elektra; I'm no anorak on this topic but the labels looked like they were pressed by the same plant RSO used. The better Elektra styrenes looked like they were made by Columbia. Another label whose styrenes I recall as generally good was ABC-Dunhill; they also made good vinyl singles. United Artists' were OK too. I've even had some hard-vinyl singles on Bell that looked like they might have been pressed by RCA-Victor, though like all Bell singles, they were in mono. Worst vinyl 45rpm pressings, hands-down, had to be Atlantic. I remember taking a brand-new Abba single out of the sleeve (wish I could remember which one!) and during the "softer" parts of the song, the crackling was louder than the music.

 

[AM Matt]

David Cassidy's remake of The Lovin' Spoonful's "Daydream" was the first Bell Records 45 to be released in STEREO on the silver & black lettering logo back in mid 1973 but it did not charted in Billboard. Matt Clark Sanford, MI