⭐ Official Review [Album] "KAREN CARPENTER" (SP-4804/CD-0588)

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

I remember how big "Physical" was back in 1982-it turned out to be the biggest hit single of all time.Ironicly,within two years,that song completely disappeared from radio airplay.(By 1984,that punk-rock sound was totally gone.)By the end of the 80's,"Physical" was a source of ridicule in the music industry and among radio programmers.

Olivia had her fifteen minutes of fame with Physical-she got her big hit-single.But,what good is that today? That songs is now a faded memory-a dated product of it's time,and totally forgotten by top-40 radio.Her Physical album has been out-of-print for twenty years.Today,Olivia's music career is over.

Karen,by contrast,is a legend in the music industry today-regarded as one of the world's greatest vocalists.Many of her albums are classics today-and perennial bestsellers.

This is why the decision to shelve Karen's album was best for everyone involved.What if Karen turned out like Olivia?

The comparison I used of Olivia and Physical had to do with the time period, 1980, 1981, Olivia took risks in her career, Karen took the same risks. I would bet that if you asked Olivia's if she is satisfied with how Physical has lasted as a single up to today, she would say she is grateful & happy it did so well. The song can't be a top 10 hit forever, it had it's time and boy did it make her a lot of money, 2 million copies? Her hit Physical did not die and fade away as you mentioned, it continues to be a song she sings at her concerts and who would have thought in 2010 she would appear as herself in two episodes of the hit series, “Glee,” with a new version of “Physical” sung with Jane Lynch. This brought the popularity of that hit song back all over again and here she was introduced to a whole new younger crowd who may seek out her catalog. I'd say this is more than 15 mins of fame. How about 30 years later still going.

Today,Olivia's music career is over.

I can clearly see you don't follow Olivia's career, I don't see how you can say this and maybe you could elaborate on what you mean. So what your saying is if you were face to face with Olivia you would tell her that her music career is over? I think she'd be hurt by that comment for she has issued many CD's and personal work since the days of Physical. Today, Olivia is 65 yrs young and although she doesn't put out CD's every year she is still recording....I lost count of the many CD's she has put out since Physical, her touring schedule is still going strong today with most recent concerts being given on Carnival Cruise and then she is booked for many dates now in Vegas. If her music career was over she would no longer be singing and this is further from the truth.

What if Karen turned out like Olivia?

huh? I don't follow. Olivia turned out very well, she still has a huge fan base, she is still singing, still touring, raised an incredible amount of money for cancer research, opened a wellness center, loved by her fans and respected in the music business. I could go on and on....I believe Karen would have been proud of what Olivia has accomplished in her career, even up today.

 

[Chris May]

Is this part two of the Richard Carpenter Interview thread?

Funny you should ask that Jim. Incidentally I felt that with all of the debate over this album, as discussed in the thread related to my interview with Richard, I thought the proof would be in the pudding in terms of the voting. If you look at the numbers, they more or less confirm what many of us have said. Artistic, independence driven, and creative? - All YES! But commercial and timeless? Unfortunately, no.

 

[Rumbahbah]

I’m not surprised to see the spread of votes for this album as it’s the one that seems to evoke the strongest feelings, both from those who love it and those who hate it. It’s not helped by the fact that it’s the major ‘what if?’ in the Carpenters’ catalogue – the only full album recorded in Karen’s lifetime not given a contemporary release. It’s also very difficult to separate the music from the politics surrounding both what the album stood for as well as its suppression – its treatment by Richard and A&M as the ‘step-child’ also creates dividing lines between those who support the ‘status quo’ view that prevailed about the album for many years and those who root for the underdog.


To judge it purely in musical terms, it tries a number of new things and not everything is successful. ‘Still in Love with You’ just doesn’t work as a style for Karen’s voice and ‘Making Love in the Afternoon’ is trite and lightweight. I enjoy ‘My Body Keeps Changing My Mind’ but I can appreciate it might have sounded ‘old hat’ by 1980, although in fairness it’s the only chiefly ‘disco’ track on the album.


On the flipside, the dryness of ‘All Because of You’ is a revelation – you’d never expect Karen to sound so effective in such a setting. ‘Guess I Just Lost My Head’ has a playfulness not found elsewhere in the Carpenters’ output. Other tracks like ‘Still Crazy After All These Years’ build on the duo’s occasional forays into jazz but give it a fully contemporary edge, while ‘If We Try’ and ‘If I Had You’ take the idea of the Carpenters’ stacked harmonies and build on it to produce new twists and a warmth of sound not heard since ‘Only Yesterday’. And there’s no oboe anywhere to be heard!


There’s a real sense of progression in the sounds tackled with a firm eye on making something that could go head to head with Top 40 radio at the time – Passage may have been musically ambitious but was less convincing on keeping up with current trends. Ironically, for an album that some claim sounds ‘dated’, I find tracks like ‘If We Try’ and ‘If I Had You’ in particular to sound fresher than many Carpenters songs (and especially from the post-1975 albums) when I listen to them today. As many have pointed out before, just compare and contrast the solo and duo versions of 'Make Believe It's Your First Time' for proof that the solo album actually had a better and less 'dated' take on things than Richard was able to provide at this point in their career.


I can appreciate that not all fans like the change in direction. I’d agree that there’s no ‘We’ve Only Just Begun’ or ‘Superstar’ on the album and that Karen’s higher singing on some of the tracks may not be to everyone’s tastes. That’s fair enough. But this is where I’d say it’s very hard to separate the music from the politics – its timing is crucial in this respect. It was recorded at a time when the Carpenters’ career had been in a slump for four years, and as Made in America’s lack of commercial success showed in 1981, it wasn’t just a temporary blip.


I’m not going to claim that the solo album would have put right all that had been going wrong in their career, but it was trying to reach out to a new audience, and the fact that not all Carpenters fans like it is to some extent indicative of its whole purpose – I’d wager there was a fair chance that it might have attracted the attention of some casual listeners who would have found nothing on A Kind of Hush and Passage or later on Made in America of interest. Even if it wasn’t perfect, it was trying to shake things up a bit, and in any case, musically I’d also rate it as superior to all three of those albums (none of which I think could be called ‘timeless’ as entities either). It was a risk – one that may have paid off or not, although of course we’ll never know on that – but at the very least its ambition should be applauded. That’s the thing that infuriates me most about Made in America – where is its ambition?


The album also put Karen in some musical settings that she hadn’t been in before or since. Even if you don’t like them all, at least it offers some variety we'd never have heard otherwise, and I’d say she showed herself to be more versatile than some give her credit for.


So, four stars (and a very long post!) from me.

 

[GaryAlan]

Rumbahbah, I applaud your analysis on the above post.
In only one particular do I dissent: to me, on a personal level, Passage, on the whole, is 'timeless'.
But, that's just me!

 

[A&M Retro]

I too voted *BEST*. It is the singular "solo" album. To what do we compare? Her brothers solo achievement? While I find some trax on TIME engaging, contemporary for the time, replete with marvelous studio wizardry I can't help but wonder if it didn't garner a place on the 'shelf''? But that's another topic. I've reviewed a few posts where my opinion regarding KAREN CARPENTER has been duly noted. Still tossing a thought or two, 3 or more...The statement above that politically "they like the idea of Karen receiving complete recognition for her work-rather than acknowledging Richard's vast contributions" strikes me curious. As the story now goes, it was made good damn and clear to Karen who was the artiste in the state of dysfunction. Over the years those savvy enough to read liner notes or notice Richard with 3 Grammys and several nominations imbibe him with due credit. Where credit is deficient Richard is quick to refer RICHARD and Karen Carpenter. This is everywhere. All that complexity, lead to our end result. Okey dokey on to Karen's supreme and oft dismissed creativity. Mix or match producer, song choice, recording technique or even CarpenterS 'sound-alike' (which I find an intolerable comment. How the hell is Karen with or w/o overdubs not gonna sound-alike)? Rod Temperton given credit in the liner notes of KC for vocal acrobatics were just that. Sophisticated, technically superb! Taken as a whole I clearly distinguish the creative risk and the innate uniqueness therein. It's a gas to hear Karen jumping, leaping through vocal hoops that only she could master. #1 best seller or not making the top #100 who cares? In hindsight we have the shining moment that Karen tried to pull it together by fancy or professional conquest. $400,000 1980 dollars on the shelf at Karen's behest? Regardless, the music made it to my long anxious ears and I appreciate it on its own merit. Politics aside, it's a fun departure, now a cherished listen. I must admit there is melancholia here but thankfully Karen herself asserted that she made a F****** great album!!! I speculate, but knowing that alone may have provided some solace to the rape.

Jeff

 

[aaflyer98]

Thank you Jeff! As always, your comments are right on the mark with me! And Thank you Chris! Olivia is alive and well and about to do a part time residency show in Las Vegas. "Physical" in no way hurt her career! She's done a lot since then! I only wish Karen had turned out like Olivia, career and health wise!

 

[cam89]

I personally think it's a great album. She did some wonderful singing and it truly was a labour of love, as it has been said! That woman had so much more talent, than I think she was given credit for. Yes, Richard did some amazing arranging, producing of their records, but this was a chance for her to shine! I remember listening to the LOVELINES cassette back in 1989 and being amazed at listening to her solo songs. Fast forward to Summer 1992, I bought the FROM THE TOP cd boxset and was able to listen to MY BODY KEEPS CHANGING MY MIND and was so in love with it! I loved her vocals! Then when the album KAREN CARPENTER came out, I bought the cassette and listened to it. I was in awe! My only disappointment was the lack of photos in it, very brief liner notes, but was so happy to listen to it! She truly was a gifted musician and knew what she wanted to do! She was truly overflowing with talent! It makes me angry when I think of how much money she invested, and then she is forced to shelve it. I wish she had demanded it to be released! The comment that made me angry, was when they said they didn't like the fact she was trying to sound like a black chick, and I was like, so what? What was wrong with trying to sound like a black chick??!!?? And when Herb said, upon being questioned about her solo album, and he says, he doesn't remember about why it wasn't released. I'm sure he KNEW perfectly well!!!!

 

[Tapdancer]

The comment that made me angry, was when they said they didn't like the fact she was trying to sound like a black chick, and I was like, so what? What was wrong with trying to sound like a black chick??!!??

Nothing, but it depends on the outcome. Achieving the sound intended is one thing; trying to achieve that sound is another.

Having said that, I think instead she was trying to sound "intimate" - and this is where it didn't come off for me.

 

[mr J.]

The comparison I used of Olivia and Physical had to do with the time period, 1980, 1981, Olivia took risks in her career, Karen took the same risks. I would bet that if you asked Olivia's if she is satisfied with how Physical has lasted as a single up to today, she would say she is grateful & happy it did so well. The song can't be a top 10 hit forever, it had it's time and boy did it make her a lot of money, 2 million copies? Her hit Physical did not die and fade away as you mentioned, it continues to be a song she sings at her concerts and who would have thought in 2010 she would appear as herself in two episodes of the hit series, “Glee,” with a new version of “Physical” sung with Jane Lynch. This brought the popularity of that hit song back all over again and here she was introduced to a whole new younger crowd who may seek out her catalog. I'd say this is more than 15 mins of fame. How about 30 years later still going.



I can clearly see you don't follow Olivia's career, I don't see how you can say this and maybe you could elaborate on what you mean. So what your saying is if you were face to face with Olivia you would tell her that her music career is over? I think she'd be hurt by that comment for she has issued many CD's and personal work since the days of Physical. Today, Olivia is 65 yrs young and although she doesn't put out CD's every year she is still recording....I lost count of the many CD's she has put out since Physical, her touring schedule is still going strong today with most recent concerts being given on Carnival Cruise and then she is booked for many dates now in Vegas. If her music career was over she would no longer be singing and this is further from the truth.



huh? I don't follow. Olivia turned out very well, she still has a huge fan base, she is still singing, still touring, raised an incredible amount of money for cancer research, opened a wellness center, loved by her fans and respected in the music business. I could go on and on....I believe Karen would have been proud of what Olivia has accomplished in her career, even up today.

We don't want to turn this into a forum on Olivia Newton-John-we want to keep the focus on K&R.But, I will add a few comments about the situation:

Olivia's career as a successful recording artist is basically over-and it has been for some time.Olivia did take a risk in her career when she revamped her style and image in the late 70's.And,while her new sound proved successful in the short-term,it sabotaged her career in the long-term.By 1986,the party was over-the hits stopped happening.And,by the early 90's most of her albums were out-of-print.

The problem with having a trendy sound is that it's not going to last very long-and you're fans are going to get tired of it and move on to the next up-and-coming trendy artist(like Madonna & Sheena Easton).

It's not really important how popular "Physical" was in 1981-the big issue is how does it sound today? It hasn't received any radio airplay in thirty years.There were many top-40 hits in the early 80's that were good,well-crafted records that still sound great today-and have been perennial radio favorites(particularly two 1982 A&M singles: Joe Jackson's "Steppin Out" and Jeffrey Osbourne's "On The Wings Of Love").

I had her Physical album back in the 80's-and while it sounded great then,it sounded absolutely horrible today.There's a couple of ballads on the album that are decent,but that's about it.

And,I should mention that I've always liked Olivia as a person and she did make some good records back in the mid-70's. But,it's not possible to compare Olivia's recordings to Karen's in any way.

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

We don't want to turn this into a forum on Olivia Newton-John-we want to keep the focus on K&R.But, I will add a few comments about the situation:

Olivia's career as a successful recording artist is basically over-and it has been for some time.Olivia did take a risk in her career when she revamped her style and image in the late 70's.And,while her new sound proved successful in the short-term,it sabotaged her career in the long-term.By 1986,the party was over-the hits stopped happening.And,by the early 90's most of her albums were out-of-print.

The problem with having a trendy sound is that it's not going to last very long-and you're fans are going to get tired of it and move on to the next up-and-coming trendy artist(like Madonna & Sheena Easton).

It's not really important how popular "Physical" was in 1981-the big issue is how does it sound today? It hasn't received any radio airplay in thirty years.There were many top-40 hits in the early 80's that were good,well-crafted records that still sound great today-and have been perennial radio favorites(particularly two 1982 A&M singles: Joe Jackson's "Steppin Out" and Jeffrey Osbourne's "On The Wings Of Love").

I had her Physical album back in the 80's-and while it sounded great then,it sounded absolutely horrible today.There's a couple of ballads on the album that are decent,but that's about it.

And,I should mention that I've always liked Olivia as a person and she did make some good records back in the mid-70's. But,it's not possible to compare Olivia's recordings to Karen's in any way.

Well this will be my last comment on this subject. I do not share your views on Olivia's career, to say that she sabotaged her career is just incorrect. She has said in interviews that she feels lucky to have done everything she has in her career. She has inspired and given hope in her music shared with us the healing process of her battle with cancer with Gaia Cd and renewed our strength with her Grace and Gratitude Cd.

Music is a personal choice and it's ok you don't like her physical album, I personally think it sounds terrific even today and still play it quite often. The problem I have is some of your comments have been unkind. Saying things like her 15 mins of fame is up and her music career is over and what if Karen turned out like Olivia....have no merit in my opinion. We should not be putting one artist down just to build another up. They are both artists in their own right and there is much to be proud of in both of their music careers.

 

[Toolman]

Like it or not, "Karen Carpenter" is at least interesting. I'm sure I listen to it more often than any Carpenters album except for compilations. Commercial in its day? I think potentially so, but since it wasn't released, none of us will ever know. I remember upon hearing it when finally released being surprised at how tame it actually was, after all the hoopla about the sexual content in the lyrics. "Love Making Love to You" would have been a bit surprising, but the rest? Nah.
Most perplexing to me is how Richard/Alpert/Moss could have thought they were "protecting" Karen by deeming it unworthy of release, if that's what actually happened. Karen had dealt with commercial failure before. Seems to me having your closest friends tell you your work is unreleasable would be vastly more hurtful than a commercial flop. Kind of a stunning lack of empathy there, if at all true.
I'd have put it out. Four stars.

 

[Chris May]

Most perplexing to me is how Richard/Alpert/Moss could have thought they were "protecting" Karen by deeming it unworthy of release, if that's what actually happened. Karen had dealt with commercial failure before. Seems to me having your closest friends tell you your work is unreleasable would be vastly more hurtful than a commercial flop. Kind of a stunning lack of empathy there, if at all true.
I'd have put it out. Four stars.

My only pushback on this is, is if that *were* true, it makes sense. We have to remember that Karen was gravely ill by this point. I doubt anyone connected the release of the album with Karen's need for independence - even though in hindsight, we've learned that it may have been exactly what she needed. I would bet they were erring more on the side of "Geez Karen, we're not hearing any hits here, and you are very ill and don't need to go thru a major setback right now as that could completely put you over the edge, making your problem even worse".

 

[Mark-T]

Interesting thoughts, Chris.

 

[newvillefan]

I would bet they were erring more on the side of "Geez Karen, we're not hearing any hits here, and you are very ill and don't need to go thru a major setback right now as that could completely put you over the edge, making your problem even worse".

To date, I've heard the following reasons or arguments used by various people as justification for it not being put out, so it's no surprise there's always a swirl of debate around what led to it being shelved:

1. "I'm sure she wasn't real comfortable with it" - Herb Alpert
2. "We looked at each other and we knew we had a dog from a commercial sense" - Derek Green (with Jerry Moss)
3. "Herb and Jerry did not want it released and that was the bottom line" - Richard Carpenter
4. "I don't really remember the reason why [it wasn't released]" - Herb Alpert
5. "[Karen] knew [Richard] didn't like the fact that she was doing it; she was afraid he wouldn't like the sound" - C.J. Cuticello
6. "Richard decided that he wanted to get going with the Carpenters again - and the label got behind him on that" - Phil Ramone

...and the biggest smokescreen of them all...

7. "I'm not totally happy with it" - Karen Carpenter

There just doesn't seem to be a common party line - from anyone!

Richard once said, on the VH1 special, that "she and Phil played the album for the powers that be at A&M - and I wasn't there for this one". We know now this is simply not true. He was there, along with Herb and Jerry. I still don't understand this contradiction to this day and I simply can't believe he didn't have some say in its shelving for this reason.

 

[Murray]

Olivia had her fifteen minutes of fame with Physical-she got her big hit-single.But,what good is that today? That songs is now a faded memory-a dated product of it's time,and totally forgotten by top-40 radio.Her Physical album has been out-of-print for twenty years.Today,Olivia's music career is over.

Karen,by contrast,is a legend in the music industry today-regarded as one of the world's greatest vocalists.Many of her albums are classics today-and perennial bestsellers.

This is why the decision to shelve Karen's album was best for everyone involved.What if Karen turned out like Olivia?

Hmm let's see... since "Physical", Olivia has... 13 albums, 12 concert tours, numerous movie and television acting roles, a child, raised awareness of her illness, built a treatment center... On the other hand, look what Karen has achieved in the same time. Oh wait... Good Lord, if ONLY Karen had turned out like Olivia!

 

[Jeff]

Within my limited window of overview, hindsight, reports from Karen's circle of friends If I may be so bold...I chose #6's speculation.
6. "Richard decided that he wanted to get going with the Carpenters again - and the label got behind him on that" - Phil Ramone
OR what?
7. "I'm not totally happy with it" - Karen Carpenter
This line of report is full to the brim with ****, ****, ****... you fill in the blank.
OR your kidding right?
4. "I don't really remember the reason why [it wasn't released]" - Herb Alpert
Puleeeeeeeeeze Herb. Early onset or what?

So the actual particulars are hearsay. An album created by Karen with or w/o her brother should have been released timely. I can only imagine being at deaths door all the while singing your brains out. What an effort. What a swan song. More than just a sister to the act created by another but a force to be reckoned with for all time.

My late Father was a devoted homicide detective for Portland. Apparently some of his passion is genetic.

Trust in me, more later,

Jeff

 

[newvillefan]

This line of report is full to the brim with ****, ****, ****... you fill in the blank.

None of these lines are speculation - they're actual quotes from the mouths (or pens in this case) of those named. Karen wrote this herself - it was from the memo she sent to A&M staff explaining why the album was being shelved.

 

[Jeff]

At gunpoint? Hmmm...I suppose staring down a barrel I'd be sending memos too. HELP!!!

 

[newvillefan]

At gunpoint?

Metaphorically speaking, probably yes!

 

[mr J.]

Well this will be my last comment on this subject. I do not share your views on Olivia's career, to say that she sabotaged her career is just incorrect. She has said in interviews that she feels lucky to have done everything she has in her career. She has inspired and given hope in her music shared with us the healing process of her battle with cancer with Gaia Cd and renewed our strength with her Grace and Gratitude Cd.

Music is a personal choice and it's ok you don't like her physical album, I personally think it sounds terrific even today and still play it quite often. The problem I have is some of your comments have been unkind. Saying things like her 15 mins of fame is up and her music career is over and what if Karen turned out like Olivia....have no merit in my opinion. We should not be putting one artist down just to build another up. They are both artists in their own right and there is much to be proud of in both of their music careers.

My comments weren't unkind-they are just honest,unbiased observations. I'll use this analogy to give you a better understanding: If somebody was driving down a residential street,and they passed by an orange painted house,and remarked "Oh,that house looks ugly"-they're not being disparaging or mean-spirited,they're simply making an honest unbiased observation about that house. No orange painted house is going to look attractive-even though the homeowner might think it looks good.

Many of Olivia's 80's recordings don't sound good today.They were designed for the sole purpose of scoring a quick hit-single.I'm sure even Olivia will concede that much of her 80's material is rather embarrassing today.I could listen to something like "Heart Attack" or "Tied Up" and ask "what was she thinking"?

I haven't heard her "Gaia" or "Grace and Gratitude" albums-so I can't comment on those.But,I'm sure they are more artistic and meaningful than her 80's albums.

 

[mr J.]

To date, I've heard the following reasons or arguments used by various people as justification for it not being put out, so it's no surprise there's always a swirl of debate around what led to it being shelved:

1. "I'm sure she wasn't real comfortable with it" - Herb Alpert
2. "We looked at each other and we knew we had a dog from a commercial sense" - Derek Green (with Jerry Moss)
3. "Herb and Jerry did not want it released and that was the bottom line" - Richard Carpenter
4. "I don't really remember the reason why [it wasn't released]" - Herb Alpert
5. "[Karen] knew [Richard] didn't like the fact that she was doing it; she was afraid he wouldn't like the sound" - C.J. Cuticello
6. "Richard decided that he wanted to get going with the Carpenters again - and the label got behind him on that" - Phil Ramone

...and the biggest smokescreen of them all...

7. "I'm not totally happy with it" - Karen Carpenter

There just doesn't seem to be a common party line - from anyone!

Richard once said, on the VH1 special, that "she and Phil played the album for the powers that be at A&M - and I wasn't there for this one". We know now this is simply not true. He was there, along with Herb and Jerry. I still don't understand this contradiction to this day and I simply can't believe he didn't have some say in its shelving for this reason.

#3 is the correct reason. Herb & Jerry didn't like the album-but I think they also felt the album's contemporary pop/rock sound would alienate Karen's easy-listening audience.Richard had no involvement in this decision-he was a recording artist,just like Karen.

 

[Murray]

My comments weren't unkind-they are just honest,unbiased observations. I'll use this analogy to give you a better understanding: If somebody was driving down a residential street,and they passed by an orange painted house,and remarked "Oh,that house looks ugly"-they're not being disparaging or mean-spirited,they're simply making an honest unbiased observation about that house. No orange painted house is going to look attractive-even though the homeowner might think it looks good.

Hey, back in the 70's, I grew up in an orange painted house! On my block alone, there was a yellow house, a green house, a blue house, a cherry red house, and even a house painted in vibrant purple with lavender trim! And you know what? They all looked fabulous, and cheerful, and inviting, but I guess I'm just biased towards individuality and diversity. You strike me as the type who is biased towards modern neighborhoods where all the houses are a drab brown or grey, and look as cheerful as a Russian gulag. Not being unkind, just an honest observation.

Many of Olivia's 80's recordings don't sound good today.They were designed for the sole purpose of scoring a quick hit-single.I'm sure even Olivia will concede that much of her 80's material is rather embarrassing today.I could listen to something like "Heart Attack" or "Tied Up" and ask "what was she thinking"?

Those recordings don't sound as good to you today as they did in the 80's, and you personally find them to be embarrassing. That's all that you can honestly say. Other people get as much enjoyment out of listening to them now as they did then. I don't presume to know how Olivia feels about her 80's material, but I will say that if she was so embarrassed, why would she still be performing this material in concert?

What pop music artist doesn't want to score hits? The Carpenters in their heyday were just as "guilty" of this as anyone. Richard was often praised for his ability to pick hits, and K&R went to great pains in their production to make sure that their recordings were radio friendly, and had enough hooks, chill factor etc. And don't forget that one of the reasons given for shelving Karen's solo album was that A&M management didn't think it had any hits on it. It's called the music "business" for a reason. Produce hit singles or die.

I haven't heard her "Gaia" or "Grace and Gratitude" albums-so I can't comment on those.But,I'm sure they are more artistic and meaningful than her 80's albums.

You haven't heard those albums because they don't exist. You said it yourself, her music career was over after 1981.

 

[A&M Retro]

Jeff: You're a kick ass writer.

 

[A&M Retro]

I wasn't there for the playback. And I must say I'm glad. I can't imagine the hell she went through and how this event helped destroy what was left of Karen's self esteem. I know that wasn't their intention, but to methodically and intentionally slam every track reeks of conspiracy.

There's a LOT to like on the album....period. That being said, it's obvious that her album was stopped out of deference to Richard. It was just too much for them to think outside their comfort zone. Of course, Karen had no problem with thinking outside the golden formula. She was more than willing to stick her neck out and try something new and contemporary. So, what do we get a year later? 'Beechwood'! Hoopty Doo! It's 1962! Let's play it safe! And fail.

A&M blew it in so many ways with this album. Nothing they say today (and the stories seem to change yearly) will change that. As Frenda Leffler said, 'The sad thing is Richard has to live with it, and I don't think it even fazes him'.

Nuff said.

 

[Tapdancer]

What pop music artist doesn't want to score hits?....K&R went to great pains in their production to make sure that their recordings were radio friendly, and had enough hooks, chill factor etc. And don't forget that one of the reasons given for shelving Karen's solo album was that A&M management didn't think it had any hits on it. It's called the music "business" for a reason. Produce hit singles or die.

Murray puts it perfectly! And what about all the money that had already gone into the production - $100,000 from A&M plus $400,000 from Karen's own pocket! Using a 5% rate of inflation over 33 years, that is equivalent to $2.5 million in today's money. And this is even before marketing and distribution costs come into it!

Reading from the relevant section from Randy Schmidt's "Little Girl Blue", much of the blame must go to what was happening in New York. To quote Phil Ramone:

We came in with all these high hopes, and then nobody [Herb, Jerry and Richard] actually liked it...Of course, they had the right to not like it, but it was never in our minds that this could fail....There wasn't going to be a part two or attempts to try and figure it out....Sometimes a mix can change things or save the day, but they didn't think that would help. The whole thing was a flop...At the time we didn't see it as them against us. For us it was all about what we did wrong. "What did we miss?" "How did we miss?"

Couldn't fail?? Sounds to me like a classic case of delusion, and a failure due to groupthink, as everyone on the East Coast was doing high fives, after what Randy Schmidt says was "an exhilarating year of creativity, exploration and hard work". And don't forget about all that money so far expended - yet even Deaf Freddy can hear where the weaknesses are in most of these tracks. To have to go back and re-work some of this material may have borne fruit, I believe, but at too much overall cost (in more than one sense) to the label.

Whose job was it to cast a critical ear on proceedings, Phil?