⭐ Official Review [Album] "KAREN CARPENTER" (SP-4804/CD-0588)

[GaryAlan]

There was recently an audio interview whereby Hal Blaine repeats basically what he said in
the above posting. I have always had reservations, if not doubts, regarding certain aspects of these interviews.
With the passage of time, I would say one's memory is apt to be somewhat cloudy !

 

[mr J.]

A&M recouped 100k thru CarpenterS royalties...this plus K's 400k? GD heads would be arollin' if I took it up the a##! Ok so A&M is satisfied. Not out a dime. KC is told what? "That's showbiz"!?

Jeff

A&M didn't "recoup" the 100k they invested in the album-that was the standard advance they gave for every Carpenters album.A&M lost that money. The 400K additional tab that Karen ran up was charged against royalties from "Made In America". Technically,Karen didn't lay out any money for the album-she lost future royalties that she would've received from MIA.

The reason MIA took as long as it did is that Karen met Tom Burris, got engaged and married between April and August of 1980. The recording sessions were put on hold while she planned her wedding and then took some time off after she got married.

Karen's solo LP took as long because she was in such poor health - it dragged on for months longer than it should have done as she was back in LA for a lot of this time, hence why Phil Ramone took to recording the latter parts of it at A&M in Los Angeles.

Actually,MIA was delayed due to problems with the first pressing of the LP,which was rejected by Richard.

The recording sessions weren't put on hold-the bulk of MIA was recorded in the Summer of 1980.the orchestral tracks("Because We Are In Love" and "Somebody's Been Lyin") were recorded four days before Karen's Wedding).

 

[Jeff]

It has oft been reported that the 400k NOW in dispute was Karen's sole investment apart from A&M has it not? Foggy here but didn't Coleman and Randy clearly indicate this as such? Never been one to buy a pig in a poke...I'm finding it difficult to accept such bold statements as factual rather than grandiose speculation. While having the advantage of Richard's personal response to your questionnaire Mr. J sir, and far be it from me to disparage but many times you report insider info as 1st person and subsequently leaves me to wonder if you are not the proverbial fly on the wall or what? All due respect when I say easy does it. Ya know lets walk softly and carry a big stick.

Jeff

 

[mr J.]

It has oft been reported that the 400k NOW in dispute was Karen's sole investment apart from A&M has it not? Foggy here but didn't Coleman and Randy clearly indicate this as such? Never been one to buy a pig in a poke...I'm finding it difficult to accept such bold statements as factual rather than grandiose speculation. While having the advantage of Richard's personal response to your questionnaire Mr. J sir, and far be it from me to disparage but many times you report insider info as 1st person and subsequently leaves me to wonder if you are not the proverbial fly on the wall or what? All due respect when I say easy does it. Ya know lets walk softly and carry a big stick.

Jeff

The $400,000 that Karen spent is not in dispute-and there's nothing foggy here.The record label makes a certain allowance for the recording costs of every album.If an artist spends over that amount-they become responsible for the extra tab.That amount is deducted from royalties once the album is released.

Being that Karen's album was cancelled,that extra 400k was offset by the royalties from MIA.And,as you mentioned,this fact was discussed in the Coleman/Schmidt bio's.

A&M took a loss on the 100k that they put up to make the album.Antyime a label decides to cancel an album-they absorb the loss for the money pledged to make it.

This is not "insider information"-it is just standard music industry/record label procedure.

From a personal perspective,this is all water under the bridge & absolutely irrelevant,anyway.

 

[GaryAlan]

Another article which may be familiar to most here:

 

[GaryAlan]

In a re-reading of the NY Times article , my understanding is--and, please correct me if I am wrong--
The record company allotted $100,000 to the solo effort,that is the amount A&M wanted to recoup through future royalties.
Karen spent $400,000 of her own money, this amount she, in effect, lost.
A&M recoups their money, Karen loses hers.(Coleman p.273-4, "...debt for production charged to future royalties")
This is also how I read/understand the collective source material that I have.

 

[GaryAlan]

Perhaps I digress, but, in terms of relevancy, here is my personal take on this discussion:

On February 4th, 1983, the world lost a special, beautiful, soul and the greatest vocal stylist ever (IMHO).
Since that time, I have struggled to understand how this beautiful woman could have been taken so soon.
At that time in 1983, I knew nothing of Karen's health struggles, her divorce, or of her shelved solo LP.
My understanding of all of these things came much later--through bits and pieces, here and there, scattered
through time and space.
Now, here it is, 2014.
I finally can perceive,get an inkling, in my limited vantage-point, of how and why things transpired as they did.
This is all an historical perspective , anyway, as nothing was known to me at that time.
But, as for (me) trying to come to terms with the loss of my idol, wondering about the how's and the why's,
well, then, this discussion adds perspective and insight to the informational pipeline.
I missed her then, I miss her now. Nothing replaces that unique life.
It was relevant in 1983, and still so in 2014.

 

[Jeff]

Gary, once again thank you for the insightful and pertinent articles. Your "collective source material" has solidified and bolstered earlier comments. The topic of KAREN CARPENTER and its manifestations, controversy and even delight remain current, thought provoking, mysterious, concerning, disconcerting, passionate, engaging and dare I say relevant to many who frequent this forum. That's juz the way it is. As long as there's a memory of the dear-departed or She that has gone before us, persons will continue to revel in the music, curious personalities and guiding forces that defined the recording legacy of this complex story still so misunderstood. Fascinating input from all posters.

Dare I say more?

Jeff

 

[mr J.]

In a re-reading of the NY Times article , my understanding is--and, please correct me if I am wrong--
The record company allotted $100,000 to the solo effort,that is the amount A&M wanted to recoup through future royalties.
Karen spent $400,000 of her own money, this amount she, in effect, lost.
A&M recoups their money, Karen loses hers.(Coleman p.273-4, "...debt for production charged to future royalties")
This is also how I read/understand the collective source material that I have.

Let's look at it this way: Karen charged up a $500,000 bill for the album.The bills were sent to A&M-which they paid.A&M agreed to cover $100,000.Karen was responsible for the other $400,000-and that became the "debt"-which was charged against royalties from the next album.

A&M gave Karen the $100,000 allowance for the album-that was A&M's money that was lost when they decided to cancel the album.If A&M had charged that amount to future royalties,then it would've been Karen's money and she would've actually spent $500,000 of her own money-instead of $400,000.

If Karen had paid the $400,000 debt upfront or had it deducted from her future earnings-it was still her money,if she was responsible for the debt.

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Let's look at it this way: Karen charged up a $500,000 bill for the album.The bills were sent to A&M-which they paid.A&M agreed to cover $100,000.Karen was responsible for the other $400,000-and that became the "debt"-which was charged against royalties from the next album.

A&M gave Karen the $100,000 allowance for the album-that was A&M's money that was lost when they decided to cancel the album.If A&M had charged that amount to future royalties,then it would've been Karen's money and she would've actually spent $500,000 of her own money-instead of $400,000.

If Karen had paid the $400,000 debt upfront or had it deducted from her future earnings-it was still her money,if she was responsible for the debt.

No matter how many times you shuffle the figures...the bottom line is Karen got the shaft and this was something very relevant to Karen. I can understand something like this happening to a new artist in the business but we are talking about Karen Carpenter. It just boggles my mind to think about how it all went down and how Karen never stopped thinking about her solo album up to the day she passed away. She never got a chance to try something new.

 

[GaryAlan]

On the bottom of page 270, Coleman's book reads:
"Karen had invested about $400,000 of her own money in the album's production costs,
adding to A&M's commitment of $100,000."
(p.274-quoted in part) "..she was not amused...the loss of more than $400,000...was a heavy price to pay.."

I suppose the way I am reading Coleman, or the manner in which it is written in that book, is confusing to me!

Everyone has brought up some very good points on this issue, but, I must concur that Karen was not treated like
A&M's top-drawer vocalist.
Even a cursory re-reading of the Coleman biography brings up more questions than it answers regarding the entire enterprise.
The chapter from which the above quotes are taken contains some insight, but
I am left with a feeling of ambiguity with respect to quotes therein from Richard Carpenter, Herb Alpert and Phil Ramone.

Like any other historical document, many more questions remain unanswered.

 

[Jeff]

Didn't RC oversee, approve and/or have editorial speak on the Coleman bio? If so, and with Rich being of sound mind, then we may have heard a definitive answer or at least his intended re: - solo $$$ heist.

This an interesting query.

Jeff

 

[newvillefan]

Everyone has brought up some very good points on this issue, but, I must concur that Karen was not treated like A&M's top-drawer vocalist.

At that time in her career, with the stature she held at the label due to the revenues she had generated for A&M and her enormous success and achievements, they should have been demurring to her as to whether she wanted it out or not, not calling the shots themselves. Simple as that.

 

[Mark-T]

At that time in her career, with the stature she held at the label due to the revenues she had generated for A&M and her enormous success and achievements, they should have been demurring to her as to whether she wanted it out or not, not calling the shots themselves. Simple as that.

I think sometimes A&M took advantage of the fact Karen didn't act like a diva. Maybe too nice for her own good!

 

[GaryAlan]

And, the liner notes are interesting to re-read, in conjunction with the Coleman biography (--1994 vs. 1996--as is
pointed out in the above posted article from Entertainment Weekly). Just one comparison.

 

[mr J.]

On the bottom of page 270, Coleman's book reads:
"Karen had invested about $400,000 of her own money in the album's production costs,
adding to A&M's commitment of $100,000."
(p.274-quoted in part) "..she was not amused...the loss of more than $400,000...was a heavy price to pay.."

I suppose the way I am reading Coleman, or the manner in which it is written in that book, is confusing to me!

Everyone has brought up some very good points on this issue, but, I must concur that Karen was not treated like
A&M's top-drawer vocalist.
Even a cursory re-reading of the Coleman biography brings up more questions than it answers regarding the entire enterprise.
The chapter from which the above quotes are taken contains some insight, but
I am left with a feeling of ambiguity with respect to quotes therein from Richard Carpenter, Herb Alpert and Phil Ramone.

Like any other historical document, many more questions remain unanswered.

I can understand your confusion-the term "invested" wasn't really an accurate way of describing the situation.

 

[Natesmommy77]

I think sometimes A&M took advantage of the fact Karen didn't act like a diva. Maybe too nice for her own good!

Good point Ms. Taft. Karen-ever the nice girl. I'd conjecture to say the same Karen who wouldn't dare ever challenge her mother was the same Karen who you're speaking of here. I do not mean to imply that Karen was weak or unable to think or make decisions for herself at all. It's just that the nice Karen who sought to please and keep the peace did so at such a high price.

And I certainly do not mean to sound daft by saying this (because I do not claim to know all of the details and I love Richard and respect him), and I often wonder how many times in the last 31 years Richard and/or Herb have thought in hindsight if it had been released would she still be here?

Speaking from experience, I've found that a common thread amongst those who have suffered with an eating disorder (myself included) is that they struggle to feel grown up or their age. I think the solo album was such an attempt by Karen to feel her age. The shelving of it started an unstoppable downward spiral. What a blow to such a fragile, developing ego.

I don't think all of the questions will ever be answered and yet there's something about her life and death that draws me in and intrigues me to the core. When I read Randy's book in 2010, I remember crying wishing there was someway to go back in time and comfort her.

I will never tire of her voice or her story.

 

[Jeff]

HMMMmmmm...I'm not confused at all. Ray Coleman's THE UNTOLD STORY being sanctioned by Richard Carpenter himself tells it the way Richard would have us believe. I'm cool with that. If Richard was as meticulous during this bio as he is known to be in the studio...who I dare say is to second guess? It's not necessary to read between the lines when the passage is spelled out in black and white. This style of writing simplifies comprehension.

Jeff

 

[GaryAlan]

So many wonderful and insightful viewpoints expressed! I enjoy reading everyone's comments!
Jeff, knowing how meticulous Richard Carpenter is, I would rather he wrote --with no intermediary-- an autobiography.
My understanding is that Coleman was a well respected music writer, however his writing of the Carpenter bio suffers greatly.
Not intending to undermine his capabilities as a writer, I simply feel as if Coleman is avoiding the emotional aura.
Randy's bio was riveting and emotionally draining (i.e., it really made me weep at times-and that is uncommon for me).Compelling.
Richard writes very well and could accomplish a thorough, certainly a meticulous, exposition of Carpenters.
I, too, respect and appreciate Richard greatly as my other idol, so it is entirely possible, if not plausible,
that I am being unfair to him and placing him on a pedestal impossible to live up to.
But, that being said, Carpenters legacy deserves a more thorough, historically accurate, well-written, biographical tome.
Publishing, being what it is today, the likelihood of such an endeavor is slim.
Thankfully, there is the Coleman, and Randy Schmidt's books to read and re-read.

"The utility of biography rests on the fact that we can enter by sympathy into situations in which others have found themselves."
(quoted from Westfall's biography of Isaac Newton)

 

[Mark-T]

Good point Ms. Taft. Karen-ever the nice girl. I'd conjecture to say the same Karen who wouldn't dare ever challenge her mother was the same Karen who you're speaking of here. I do not mean to imply that Karen was weak or unable to think or make decisions for herself at all. It's just that the nice Karen who sought to please and keep the peace did so at such a high price.

And I certainly do not mean to sound daft by saying this (because I do not claim to know all of the details and I love Richard and respect him), and I often wonder how many times in the last 31 years Richard and/or Herb have thought in hindsight if it had been released would she still be here?

Speaking from experience, I've found that a common thread amongst those who have suffered with an eating disorder (myself included) is that they struggle to feel grown up or their age. I think the solo album was such an attempt by Karen to feel her age. The shelving of it started an unstoppable downward spiral. What a blow to such a fragile, developing ego.

I don't think all of the questions will ever be answered and yet there's something about her life and death that draws me in and intrigues me to the core. When I read Randy's book in 2010, I remember crying wishing there was someway to go back in time and comfort her.

I will never tire of her voice or her story.

Welcome to the Boards, Natesmommy! I always like to see new folks here and get new input! Just thought I'd let you know I am a "mister". Never thought of mstaft as Ms. Taft. Pretty funny!

 

[Natesmommy77]

Welcome to the Boards, Natesmommy! I always like to see new folks here and get new input! Just thought I'd let you know I am a "mister". Never thought of mstaft as Ms. Taft. Pretty funny!

Bahahaha! I looked at your profile last night and thought, "Oh crap!!!" Sorry about that!

Glad to meet everyone. My name is Amy.

 

[song4u]

So many wonderful and insightful viewpoints expressed! I enjoy reading everyone's comments!
Jeff, knowing how meticulous Richard Carpenter is, I would rather he wrote --with no intermediary-- an autobiography.
My understanding is that Coleman was a well respected music writer, however his writing of the Carpenter bio suffers greatly.
Not intending to undermine his capabilities as a writer, I simply feel as if Coleman is avoiding the emotional aura.
Randy's bio was riveting and emotionally draining (i.e., it really made me weep at times-and that is uncommon for me).Compelling.
Richard writes very well and could accomplish a thorough, certainly a meticulous, exposition of Carpenters.
I, too, respect and appreciate Richard greatly as my other idol, so it is entirely possible, if not plausible,
that I am being unfair to him and placing him on a pedestal impossible to live up to.
But, that being said, Carpenters legacy deserves a more thorough, historically accurate, well-written, biographical tome.
Publishing, being what it is today, the likelihood of such an endeavor is slim.
Thankfully, there is the Coleman, and Randy Schmidt's books to read and re-read.

"The utility of biography rests on the fact that we can enter by sympathy into situations in which others have found themselves."
(quoted from Westfall's biography of Isaac Newton)

The only thing I could imagine Richard writing would be a bio of their recording/touring history. I don't think he would even touch the deeper personal issues. Of course many would love to read his insight on their recordings in a bio form.

 

[toeknee4bz]

I must concur that Karen's solo effort , when placed alongside anything/anyone else at that time, is at least as good
and often better than , her contemporaries.
I do not feel a comparison to her previous work with Richard is an apt methodology for judging its merits.
The album should have been released at that time.

I was thinking the same thing. I would add that if you compare anything in entertainment to it's multi-popular predecessor, you're likely to be disappointed.
My advice to those who are looking at this from a critical perspective: Don't compare this to a 'Carpenters' album. Just listen to it as a completely different artist. If that's difficult to do, just ask yourself this: If you'd never heard of anything or anyone 'Carpenter', how would this album stack up?

Now, talking out of the other side of my mouth... if you compare debut album to debut album... I can think of a lot worse debut projects from other artists!

 

[Jeff]

A surefire release of KAREN CARPENTER would've materialized had Phil Ramone featured THE OK CHORALE on Make Believe It's Your First Time. The kiss of death occurred realizing THE JIMMY JOYCE CHILDREN'S CHOIR had nary a lala. As if by lightening it occurred to me that the A&M marketing dept had no one to hype for backing vocals but Karen Carpenter. The appraised lackluster appeal of Rich-n-Herb-n-Jerry was certain at first listen. How can we possibly capitalize w/o the elevator element that has served Richard's arranging millions of sales?

Finally figured it out.

Jeff

 

[Passenger]

When all's said and done, I'm just thankful that we finally got it. I vividly remember reading the article in Billboard the week that it was announced that she was "shelving" the album, and being so let down after the building anticipation from the fan club newsletters. Karen's solo album is far from one of my favorites, and seldom played in it's entirety....but like every Carpenter's album, there are some gems. I think her solo version of "Make Believe It's Your First Time" is not only one of her finest vocals ever, but one of the finest vocal performances by ANY female vocalist. Alluding to another post, this song always delivers a chill factor. I also enjoy "If I Had You", "Last One Singing the Blues", and "My Body Keeps Changing My Mind" (yep, you love it or hate it!), and "If We Try" is a favorite on numerous iPod playlists.