Burt Bacharach, In Your Opinion: Definitive Versions?

[Rudy]

Burt Bacharach and Hal David are known best as a composing team. In the recording area, though, many of these songs were hits. Do you feel that the original hit versions of Bacharach's songs are the definitive versions, or do you feel that Bacharach's own interpretations are definitive? Note that for this poll, we aren't really looking for the cover versions either...although they could be topic for a future discussion.

 

[Mike Blakesley]

I don't think I can vote on this one. It really depends on the song. For example, I think Carpenters totally nailed "Close to You," and Herb Alpert definitely defined "This Guy's In Love With You," but Bacharach's own versions of "Something Big" and "Wives and Lovers" are definitive in my book.

There are probably dozens more examples. I think for me, it usually would come down to the version I heard first, I like better.

Then there are the Dionne Warwick recordings. Those are certainly the definitive versions of those songs, but are they really interpretations, since Bacharach arranged/produced them?

Rudy, this question is giving me a headache! Dagnabbit!

 

[Rudy]

Hehehehe...I wanted to make this one a brain tickler and not allow an "in-between" choice. And by all means, majority rules--if you think more songs are definitive as hits, vs. Bacharach's recordings, or vice versa, by all means vote that way. And for the sake of argument, we could exclude those "album-only" songs that Burt recorded...let's keep it to songs that were covered by Burt and others.

This may help: what I learned from the Bacharach box set is that Burt was involved in the recording and arranging of many of the hit versions of his songs. One of the most memorable was his choppy piano accompaniment to "My Little Red Book" by Manfred Mann. He was a perfectionist in the estudio recording the hits, arranging and conducting...but they were not released under his own name. He had very specific ideas of how he wanted his songs to sound.

I guess we can look at it this way: the songs Burt released under his own name for his own albums, or the versions of the songs released under others' names (like all of Dionne Warwick's recordings).

Me? I had no choice but to go with the original hit versions. Once I discovered that box set, it opened up the floodgates. I now have a few compilations of songs where Bacharach is composer and, often, the composer/arranger as well. So in many cases these hit versions also feature the Bacharach touch as well. I won't slight his own interpretations though--they still hold ground musically. But I now think of them more as reflections and new inventions based on the original versions. And of course, for one or two songs (like "Wives and Lovers"), his version IS the definitive version.

I really like Shawn Phillips' version of "Something Big"...the production itself is something big itself. I think Phillips nails the vocal part a lot better than the girls on Bacharach's album. But that's just me.

 

[Dave]

Well, my favorite Bacharach tunes have mostly been the following and done by the following artists:

"Knowing When To Leave" by Hugo Montenegro -- done on his GOOD VIBRATIONS album, which I have on CD. With all those singers, it sounds much like a Ray Conniff album. And many of the singers there, notably John Bahler, who sings "Knowing...", would eventually reguarily sing for Ray. But, yes, Bahler is a Natural at it, and the other songs there on this rather, shotr, under 30-minute album.

"Close To You" -- It is very hard to figure out who did this one the best. Liz Damon? Johnny Mathis? Andy Williams? Tommy Roe? Claudine Longet? Yes, The Carpenters had a huge hit with it, and Tommy Roe's version is very intimate and precious and even sports a trumpet solo, as well. I like the way Gabor Szabo did it the best--as an instrumental and it still carries that sentimental (and JEALOUS) quality along with it. I've got another instrumental version by Floyd Cramer which appears on my RCA 5-Record Set, POP HITS COUNTRY FLAVORED (Right after George Hamilton IV sings "If I Were A Carpenter). Saxophonist, Boots Randolph has a real seducive reindition of it, too. And don't forget Dionne Warwick did it first, as Dee Dee Warwicke on Scepter. and on her last recording with Burt Bacharach and Hal David, which was her first LP for Warner Brothers, and even had a few of the lyrics changed .

"Where There's A Heartache" by The Sandpipers -- Yes, Dee Dee Warwicke probably made a version nobody could touch, but I prefer the way The Sandpipers did it. Fits very nicely on their COME SATURDAY MORNING album, and glad someone at A&M was nice enough to include it on the Multi-Artist Compilation, BURT AND FRIENDS.

"One Less Bell To Answer" by The 5th Dimension -- The song long had a lot of meaning, and I was always touched by it. Especially the way The 5th Dimension had done it. Vikki Carr has a version of it, as well. I don't think enough artists covered this touching piece. Ronald Isley recently did and I once borrowed a video from someone featuring a lot of current artists covering Bacharach's stuff. Forgot who covered "One Less Bell" there--the video mostly focused on the Elvis Costello PAINTED FROM MEMORY project. Wish Andy Williams had done a version--it would have fit perfectly on an album like LOVE STORY or YOU'VE GOT A FRIEND.

"Raindrops Keep Falling On My Head" by Andy Williams -- Nothing wrong with the--most popular--B.J. Thomas version, but Andy gives it a very ear-catching phrasing that I love hearing over and over again. It is my most favorite song that Williams did and available on RAINDROPS KEEP FALLING ON MY HEAD which I have on a "two-fer" CD packaged with GET TOGETHER. And even bought an Andy Williams Compilation, which is a 3-Record Set that "Raindrops" even made it on to. I only kept the record that one is on; it gave me much of what I don't have and only a couple more songs that I do. I have everything else that was on the other two records or just didn't like as much, so I let them go.

"Windows Of The World" by Jimmie Rodgers -- Beautiful song and nobody does it like Jimmie! "I'll Never Fall In Love Again" is also well done, but Jimmie's take on "Windows" was really what should have been heard on Bacharach's boxed-set.

"Walk On By" by We Five -- From THE RETURN OF, it has a very moody, folky and even psychedelic quality that goes with the rest of the album. Gabor Szabo did an excellent instrumental version and I was just listening to my Carnival album, which also features it, done in a very Brasilian, Sergio-like way. I used to have Burt's version of it on a BEST OF album on Kapp. Dee Dee Warwicke sang, but wasn't really credited on it, or maybe I don't remember. It was a long time ago and having been 10 years old at the time, I confused it for a Country Song I heard, where the lyrics went...Just walk on by, Wait on the corner....

"Message To Michael" by Gabor Szabo and Lena Horne -- Yes, this made it onto the Bacharach Boxed-Set. As well as a nice 1-Disc compilation with selections from it, which I bought instead. And Gabor accompanies Lena very well. Lena gently sings it very sedusively and convincingly enough to make it a very definitive version and deserving of an even higher acclaim.

Figure This is Enough, but there are others I'm sure you know I like...

Dave

 

[Harry]

I can't believe I just hit the wrong button in the vote. You'd think I was from Palm Beach County or something!


I meant to hit the original hit version, even though I find this as tough a choice as Mike mentioned. I find a lot of instances where the hit version and Burt's own recordings are almost identical anyway, except for perhaps the lead instrument or vocal. Sometimes for his own recordings with his name as the artist, he'd do a little flourish or two to distinguish it from the hit version, like the little piano ditty he does around "This Guy's In Love With You."

Burt himself has, to this day admitted that he missed out on the arrangement of "Close To You", and that Richard Carpenter nailed it.

Another amazing thing to see is Burt in concert today. There are many examples of his arrangement of the songs from the '60s still surviving to the present, indicating that, to his ear at least, he got it right back then, and it doesn't need changing.

It's interesting to hear Burt's IN CONCERT (in Japan) album. There's not a note out of place - everything sounds as if it were 'in studio.' Even the polite Japanese audience quiets down for each song, both before it begins, and after it ends.

Harry
NP: IN CONCERT, Burt Bacharach

 

[Rudy]

I can't believe I just hit the wrong button in the vote. You'd think I was from Palm Beach County or something!

I think I can go in and edit the vote...would have to dig into the database to find it.

Jobim did the same thing with is arrangements--I've noticed on various recordings throughout the years, he'd use very similar arrangements every time he'd re-record it.

 

[Captain Bacardi]

Not an easy one to answer, but I chose Bacharach's own versions just because I find it interesting to hear how a composer hears his own songs.


Capt. Bacardi
NW: Packers vs Seahawks

 

[daveK]

This may sound like a stupid observation, and maybe I'm way off base, but it seems to me that Hal David gets shorted in the accolades department. I feel that the lyrics to a song are often just as important as the music but while Bacharach is revered as a legend (and justifiably!) I find that a lot of people are not even familiar with the name of Hal David. David went on to compose with others as did Bacharach when the team split. I can't see Rhino offering up a Hal David boxed set of interpretations of his songs though, even though most of them would be the same songs on the Bacharach box. Perhaps Roger Nichols has suffered the same fate as Hal David of being the lesser known of a well known recording team.
Incidentally, I happened upon an episode of a cartoon called "Dexter's Laboratory" recently where the title character was taking piano lessons from a Mr. Williams, who looked just like Paul and continually used phrases like "we've only just begun" and "here comes inspiration" when speaking to Dexter. The episode was called "Just An Old Fashioned Lab Song". I wondered how many viewers got the joke references or even knew who Paul Williams was.

 

[Mr Bill]

Not an easy one to answer, but I chose Bacharach's own versions just because I find it interesting to hear how a composer hears his own songs.

Capt. Bacardeee

Dittoes!

--Mr Bill

 

[jimac51]

As for the elevation of Hal David-well,the guy was around way before Bacharach got hot and he worked a lot after their glory days,but a look through the complete 700+ songs at his website,www.haldavid.com will show that there is a lot of filler material there. Now granted,there is probably a bunch of forgettable Ira Gershwin lyrics and a box set cold be made of Sammy Kahn duds(hey,Barry Manilow took some Johnny Mercer material and really didn't come back with much)and I guess just the complete list is staggering to the the least,but the dross is there. Yeah,and Burt's got his share of forgettables's,too. There are reasons why LOST HORIZON gets a Golden Turkey award,even though I personally like more than a few of these. Mac