Carpenters Cut Out LP's

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

I have 2 lp's in my collection that I know I bought new but they have a small cut near the bottom of the LP cover. It's really small but noticible. I am assuming that I when I bought them that they were probably reduced in price. But it's been so long I don't remember.

Does anyone have any of these too? Why did they make these kind of LP's? How did they originally get like that?

I know this sounds stupid but was just wondering how the lp got cut like that & why they would sell these. Does it decrease the value of the lp?

 

[LPJim]

Many cut-out LPs had small holes drilled through the corners, which should have no impact on their value. Others have been cut across the corner, which, while unsightly to some, shouldn't matter if you're talking about a real collector's item.
What I don't want is a hole through the playing surface. Now that would be a problem.
JB

 

[jimac51]

The history of over-producing,thinning out stock or deleting titles from inventories is a long and convoluted one and one seemingly archaic in these days of Nielsen Soundscan and computerized inventory control. Briefly,in the past,it was pretty cheap to press vinyl, it was important to get product in the pipeline and stores could return unsold product at a later time. So,the practice of shipping platinum,that is,sending a million units into stores,was a desired effect,in part to beat on your breast in Billboard that you had an important album and if a store wasn't buying enough,they were losing out.This kind of movement of product,not necesaarily actual sales,is what drove the Top 100 chart for years. Sometimes,many times,there was too much product returned. Even scrapping(and later recycling)albums was a waste,so if someone was willing to give you a few cents on the dollar,you might have taken it. Many times,the people able to afford this kind of buying were using money from some shady schemes(e.g.-drug dealing,gambling) so many of these cutout dealers had some shady backgrounds. A relatively small independent label like A&M was a bit more vulnerable to this kind of practice because it was important to be in as many outlets as possible and have as much product available in those outlets. As difficult as it may seem today,many stores,or chains,had a blanket policy of not carrying a label unless it was in their interest,thus the perils of independent distribution. A fascinating book concerning the cutout business came out 10 years ago-"STIFFED:A True Story of MCA,The Music Business and the Mafia" by William Knoedelseder. Today,though not to take anything shady out of the record business,with the afore mentioned Soundcan and inventory control as well as different inventory rules(the value of product stored in a warehouse),cutouts are not nearly as much fun as they used to be. You'll never see a legitimate Carpenters CD in a remaindered bin.- Mac

 

[mr J.]

Those cut-out albums would probably be LP's that were being deleted at the dawn of the CD era (1986-1987).There are no Carpenters albums that are actually "cut-outs" because they're all in print and always have been.(except for 3 albums that were deleted in 1992 and reissued in 1998)

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Your right I probably bought them just as CD's were hitting the stores. But are you saying that the cut out marks or holes would have been done by the manufacture? By A & M where they were pressed or cut out by someone else?

So if you had the chance to get a sealed Carpenters album now but it had a cut out would you opt to get it or find a sealed one without the cut?

 

[LPJim]

During the late '80s era of forced format change there were vinyl promo LPs tossed into the dollar bin. I was more than happy to buy them when possible.
When a gold-stamped promo of Herb Alpert's N. on S. ST. on LP appeared, I did not hesitate to snap it up for a buck. I also found Sergio's ARARA that way.
JB

 

[mr J.]

when a label decided to delete a certain album,they would advise the pressing plant that the album is being deleted,who would then "disfigure"any remaining LP's being shipped,(most likely)to prevent record stores from selling them at full price.This sort of ensures that deleted albums would be sold in the bargain bin,instead of on-the-shelf at regular prices.Incidentally,why would you want an old LP,when you could have a remastered CD(the original album with much better sound quality)?.

 

[jimac51]

The marking of remaindered LPs serves two functions-yes,to make sure that product in stores was either current or remaindered(sometimes,due to overpressing,a legitimate current title may have a deleted version in the same store)but,more importantly,the store was unable to mix cut material to their return piles,thus making money by merely returning product. As far as I know(and I am always learning more about this),record manufacturers would never allow small sales of cut material. Usually,this stuff was bid on in lots,keeping small operators out of the loop. Also,it's hard to say where exactly the physical cutting of the merchandise would take place. Cetainly not in a pressing plant but in a warehouse facility. Possibly,an agreement was made by one side or the other,each weighing the labor costs in their totals.Mac

 

[Rick-An Ordinary Fool]

Mr J

I have most all the C's music already on CD. I even have some of the re-mastered ones too.

It is not really a matter of sound quality when you listening to old lp's. if you grew up with 45's & LP's like I did in the 70's they bring back alot of memories. I was one that abandoned the turntable when new & better things came along such as the invention of CD's

Now....That CD's are the thing of today, I'm getting bored with them, don't get me wrong, I play them all the time in my car & walkman, I am just looking for new & different ways to bring back the great memories I had back in the 70's when I could pull out an LP, take a glance at the terrific artwork, place it on the turntable & give it a spin.

Then of course there is Harry's cool thread that got me really interested in those mono singles, Hey maybe I'll make a CDR from those Mono singles & If I hear any bit of difference, it will all be worth it for me.

So it's not that were not using the CD's of today, it's just reliving the memories of the past.

Thanks to everyone who helped me understand the reasoning of the cut outs.

Mr. J what you said,
"when a label decided to delete a certain album,they would advise the pressing plant that the album is being deleted,who would then "disfigure"any remaining LP's being shipped,(most likely)to prevent record stores from selling them at full price"

This sounds like the perfect reason for these cut outs.

 

[RichardWarner]

I remember meeting Harold Childs, an A&M VP, during a college radio convention in 1976, and discussing cut outs with him. He said A&M's attitude was that they didn't want their artists to be subjected to the humiliation of being in a cut out bin, so the company took the LPs back and burned them.

"What does it say to the consumer when we're asking them to buy an LP for full price when they see a 99 cent album alongside?"

There was a brief time when a few A&M albums (Crystal Illusions comes to mind) were sold with different cover art on the bargain basement $2.99 Pickwick label. Always figured A&M must have hit a rough financial patch and did a licensing deal...javascript:emoticon('')

 

[Michael Hagerty]

The Pickwick deal, IIRC, did come in a rough patch...1969. Remember...1968 saw Herb Alpert hit #1, and Sergio score two top 10 singles...and the LP sales were dynamite. In '69, Warm, Brass Are Comin' and Crystal Illusions were stiffs by comparison, and the company's highest-charting single for the year was Sonny Charles & Checkmates, LTD's "Black Pearl", which peaked at #13 in Billboard and was A&M's only single to make the Top 40!

As for what Harold Childs said about cutouts, that may have been A&M's policy as of that conversation, but in the late 60s-early 70s, I picked up many A&M LPs (including CTI releases) in bargain bins a year after their inital release.

---Michael Hagerty

 

[jimac51]

I remember meeting Harold Childs, an A&M VP, during a college radio convention in 1976, and discussing cut outs with him. He said A&M's attitude was that they didn't want their artists to be subjected to the humiliation of being in a cut out bin, so the company took the LPs back and burned them.

Evidently,Harold wasn't looking after the boss's own solo LPs. From YOU SMILE on,with the exception of a couple Christmas gifts(RISE,WILD ROMANCE) and JUST YOU & ME,all of my Alpert LPs were purchased in remainder bins-the first Alpert/Masekela album for a low 2/$1.00 at Woolworths to about a high of $3.99 for MY ABSTRACT HEART. And no Woolworth's bin was complete without 200 copies of various Pablo Cruise LPs. Mac