Daugherty gets fired and Karen comes back to the drums.

[ullalume]

Hey all,

Just realized that with the deaparture of producer Jack Daugherty in '72, Karen takes sole drumming charges of Now and Then (with the exception of Jambalaya (drum tracked in '72).

Now could this just be coincidence, perhaps Hal Blaine wasn't avaliable, or was this Karen flexing her producer role on the new album.

In A SONG 4 U, her drumming had been relegated to a single instrumental. I reckon she was hungry to drum in the studio, you know, one last album drumming hurrah, and took the opportunity in '73. Maybe she recalled Alpert etc in '70 replacing her on drums on Close to You because she lacked the force of a man and therefore it wouldn't be strident enough to make it a hit. She kind of proved a point then, with her drumming on "sing" and "yesterday once more". Similarly after an absence totally from A Kind Of Hush and Passage, and her solo effort, she was again back in the studio for Those Good Old Dreams and When it's Gone in '80. Just couldn't keep away, could she.

This could all be total rubbish and they needed a drummer fast for the sessions, but what do you lot think?

Get back,


Neil

 

[Rudy]

IIRC, Daugherty was dumped because, according to Richard, they were already doing most of the album production anyway. IOW, they resented the credit on the albums when Daugherty did little or nothing to contribute.

 

[Jeff]

I hazily remember a Penthouse article declaring the top drummers of the 70's. Karen placed above the Led Zeppelin dude who was not amused.

Atta girl,

Jeff

 

[jfiedler17]

Karen actually placed above John Bonham??? Hey, I may be a Karen Carpenter buff, but I can't defend THAT one!
Bonham was in a class of his own!

Jeff F.
NP: John Bonham "Bonzo's Montreux" from Led Zeppelin's CODA

 

[Rudy]

I won't even say one is better than the other (Bonham vs. KC)...they're too different in style.

 

[close2u]

I interviewed a man named Max Bennett, who was the bass player in Jack Daugherty's band in the early 1970s. I asked him how Jack saw the Carpenters both as people and musicians. Here is one of his comments:

"He liked them as people, but was not particularly impressed with their musicianship. He did make the comment that Karen always wanted to play drums on the recordings and that she definitely was not qualified."

 

[Rudy]

One gets the feeling Daugherty was assigned to them as a staff producer...

 

[close2u]

Daugherty wasn't even at A&M before the Carpenters, was he? I always understood A&M took him on staff in the beginning to produce the Carpenters' album since he was the one who had got the tape to Herb in the first place.

One thing I don't get is why Jack Daugherty would have made the efforts necessary to get them in to Herb if he didn't believe in them musically. Maybe Jack's opinions changed once he had worked with them in the studio.

I did speak with another friend of Jack's who said he wanted Karen off the drums because he didn't think she kept solid time and that she would often rush... but so did Hal Blaine -- the end of "I Won't Last A Day Without You" TAKES OFF! Richard mentioned this while talking to fans at last year's TOTW event.

Randy

 

[350hunny]

In an interview with Hal Blain http://www.moderndrummer.com/web_exclusive.asp?alt=100009877 he mentions Karen. This is an excerpt.

…." The other group was The Carpenters.
I did most of their records too.
MD: How was Karen as a drummer?
Hal: I’ve always said there’s nothing wrong with female drummers.
There are some fine female drummers out there, but to me Karen always
looked like a little high school kid sitting behind drums.
She rushed a bit, but that’s because she didn’t have that kind of training.
It was just her and her brother.
When I first met them they were two little chubby kids wearing Western clothing.
Joe Osborn, the great bass player, brought them to me and said,
"You’ve got to produce these kids, they’re so good."
I said, "Joe, when do we have time?" We were in the middle of a Neil Diamond date.
Karen was very nice, but there was just no way.
And right after that A&M signed them.

MD: I remember seeing a great picture, in your book, of George Harrison sitting behind that kit.
Hal: George really loved those drums.
He wanted to get a set for Ringo.
Then Karen Carpenter saw them and absolutely wanted them.
They did build her an identical set.
I don’t know if she ever used them.
They’re supposed to be in a Carpenters museum.
I had two sets myself, identical, so that I could go from studio to studio.

BWT, I've always wondered why Richard still keeps Jack as a producer in all the credits. He could demote Jack to an associate producer if he didn't want his his name deleted.

 

[SakuraSYayoi]

Mitch's link doesn't work at my computer.


I have read a few interviews with Hal Blaine, too. Here are some:

In 1970 all the pieces came together for The Carpenters on their recording of “Close To You.” “When the producers finally decided to go with professional musicians,” recalls studio legend Hal Blaine, “they talked to Karen about my playing drums. It was fine with her because she and Richard really wanted a hit.”
“I always said that Karen was a good drummer,” Hal insists. “I knew she could play right away when she’d sit down at my drums on sessions. She played on a lot of the album cuts, and she played when they performed live, as well.

I don’t mean anything bad against Karen or Richard because I loved them both, but, once groups get five, six, or seven hits under their belts, you know, in a matter of a year or two, maybe three, and they’re on the road making all kinds of money, they decide that “we don’t need other musicians, we’ll make our own records” And that’s always the beginning of the end! As soon as they start making their own records, goodbye! It’s over. I don’t know why that is, but that’s what happens. And that’s what happened with them.


I had thought that Hal Blaine was too busy to play on some songs of "Horizon", so Jim Gordon played.
It may be that Hal doesn't like that several fans of Carpenters think that Karen played all of the drums on their albums(?)

Sakura